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agree <br>
<br>
wolf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/29/2016 9:34 AM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56ABA2AD.4090404@a-giese.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi Wolf,<br>
<br>
in my view most models of particles in general and for mass in
specific are mostly tautological in that physical quantities,
which are seen to need an explanation, are just replaced by other
quantities which we all know but which also need a basic
explanation. In most models presented I miss the step to the next
lower level of explanation in the sense of the reductionist's
world.<br>
<br>
Of course I am in favour of my strong force model to explain
particles, otherwise I would not present it and defend it.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.01.2016 um 23:40 schrieb
Wolfgang Baer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A7F5CF.6080708@nascentinc.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<b>Albrecht:</b><br>
I figured you would say something like this. But this group has
published several intriguing papers ( W. F. Hagen) that suggest
light <br>
( won't say photons) curled up in cycles or tourus like shapes
can become the basis of matter and explain various elementary
particles.<br>
<br>
There is something elegant and intriguing about these
conjectures. <br>
However both the charge repulsion and the centripetal forces
that tend to blow things apart need to be explained in these
efforts.<br>
The QM explanations, as I understand them, simply describe what
must be so. Dirac's eq. does not answer how charge hangs
together<br>
or what contracts gravitational spin energy induced centrifugal
forces. <br>
<br>
Are you saying this entire category of explanation should be (
has already been) discarded in favor of your strong force model?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Wolf<br>
<br>
<b>Chandrasekhar;</b><br>
Reading your "could space be considered as the inertial rest
frame" in the SPIE vol 9570 <br>
I would very much like to find an alternative explanation for
the red shift and am interested in your absorption line argument<br>
but do not understand your logic.<br>
<br>
If a star is moving away from us both the inner and outer corona
are moving at the same velocity.<br>
The inner corona atom emits light "f<sub>0</sub>'that is red
shifted To "f" in the media due to its motion<br>
The outer corona atom absorbs light at frequency "f" that is
blue shifted relative to its natural "f<sub>0</sub>' frequency
because it is moving toward the source<br>
This leaves a hole in the spectra in the media at "f" red
shifted<br>
An atom on earth is not moving toward the source and therefore
the arriving light will still be at red shift frequency "f" <br>
atoms on the earth with natural "f<sub>0</sub>' frequency will
not be able to absorb the light <br>
<br>
All light frequencies shift and the hole at "f" is red shifted
due to the motion of the star away from us.<br>
Why do you say this is not a doppler effect?<br>
<br>
I would like to find a gravitational argument rather than a
Doppler argument fro the red shift, but do not understand how
your argument works.<br>
What am I doing Wrong?<br>
<br>
best again,<br>
Wolf<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/26/2016 1:36 PM, Albrecht
Giese wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A7E6D5.7020203@a-giese.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi Wolf!<br>
<br>
The famous equation E=mc^2 is in my understanding one of the
mystifications in physics created in the last century.
Einstein did it in a very drastic way: according to him E and
m are two symbols for the same physical phenomenon. Here I
strictly disagree. Look to the definitions of mass and energy,
they are definitely different. If one has a working model for
elementary particles, this relation results as a <i>relation
</i>(nothing more) originating in the internal structure of an
elementary particle.<br>
<br>
You see a problem with the electron regarding the repelling
force and the centrifugal force in an electron. Since the
1930s well known physicists have tried to explain the electron
classically on the basis of the electric force. Their model
failed all. So the conclusion was (written in text books) that
the electron cannot be understood but only mathematically
treated by QM. <br>
<br>
In my model I have gone another way by assuming that the
essential force in any elementary particle is the strong
force. The strong force is composed in the particle by
positive and negative "charges". With this assumption the
electron can be calculated (like the other leptons and also
quarks) with very precise results. Particularly the
centrifugal force is not a point as the internal parts in an
elementary particle are mass-less. And the electron looks
neutral from the outside regarding the strong force. <br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 25.01.2016 um 20:44 schrieb
Wolfgang Baer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A67B01.8070703@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Does this not all start with the E=mc^2 energy mass
equivalence postulate?<br>
A moving photon has energy therefore mass , if the wave is
confined to a circular path the mass could be considered
stationary<br>
The equations can all be manipulated to come up with various
quantities and interpretations.<br>
<br>
What to me is problematic is the centrifugal forces. What
balances the tremendous outward pull?<br>
An electron only has charge that repels, and now centrifugal
forces, what holds it all together?<br>
<br>
Wolf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/2016 8:33 AM, Albrecht
Giese wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A64E73.6010208@a-giese.de"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Dear Richard,<br>
<br>
you know that I object to your derivation of inertial
mass. You deduce it from momentum. That is mathematically
possible by using the known relations. But it is not
logical in so far as momentum depends on inertia. In a
world without inertia there would be no momentum.<br>
<br>
So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia
itself, then we can derive the momentum and the inertial
mass.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42
schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0907288F-7DBF-486D-B8E1-30751A151F73@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div class="">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Yes, I definitely support the idea of
the ether as material space, and that all physical
particles are derived from this ether. This ether can
also be called a plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I don’t however think that it is
necessary to explain the inertial mass of particles in
relation to a "coefficient of inertia” or "the amount
of momentum the ether resists." I have shown (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a></a> )
by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m
of an electron may be derived from the momentum of the
circling photon in a circulating-photon model of the
electron, whose circling photon has momentum mc where
m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 , where Eo is the rest energy
0.511 MeV of the electron and f is the frequency of
the circulating photon in the resting electron.
Secondly, in a similar way I derived a linearly moving
photon's inertial mass to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 ,
where f is the photon’s frequency, even though a
photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the
inertial mass of a relativistic electron, whose
momentum is p=gamma mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m ,
even though the moving electron's rest mass is m. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I present these derivations below,
taken from the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://academia.edu" class="">academia.edu</a> session
on my electron inertia article at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a></a> :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="js-non-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">ectron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Orig%0A%2
0in%0A%2%0A0_o%0A%2%0A0f_%0A%2%0A0th%0A%2%0A0e_Elect%0A%0Arons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle wi
th
speed v,
th
e inerti
al
mass cal
cul
ation ab
ove
gives M
-in
ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM,
Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">Yes, Vlad, that is also my
viewpoint.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">I do not remember whether I have
attached this paper while communicating with
you earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic
Tension Field (CTF), to be descriptive in
its essential properties.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">Chandra.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> </span></a></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in
0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] (no subject)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Richard <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">I barge into your
discussion without knowing your views on a
"plenum field" but if it is an ether I
definitely think there is one. A "coefficent
of inertia" might be defined as the amount
of momentum the ether resists. In a charged
or gravitational field this coefficent would
increase...I think of this in terms of my
Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric
nodes, except this may give the wrong idea
it is something matter wades in.. not so.
Matter and ether are made if the selfsame
nodes of energy!<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Cheers<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Vladimir<br
class="">
<br class="">
_____________________<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><br class="">
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard
Gauthier <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Hodge,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""> I don’t
remember asking that. But if I did, I’m
glad the question was helpful.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""> I’m thinking
about inertia these days. Do you or
others have any insights about its
nature?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">
Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">On Jan
20, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge John
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com">jchodge@frontier.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">Richard Gauthier:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">You asked if the
galaxy redshift, Pioneer
anomaly, Pound--Rebka
experiment model had a
velocity term. I looked at
redshift data for 1 galaxy
and found no indication of a
velocity term.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">I had not noticed
this in the equations. Your
suggestion that the plenum
field can look like the
Higgs field seems valid.
That is, the acceleration of
the plenum field looks like
it adds energy (mass) is a
Higgs Field characteristic.
Thus, the plenum is closer
to the idea of a quantum
field and Higgs field (weak
force).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">Thanks for the
insight.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579"
class="">
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