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Wolf,<br>
<br>
good questions, and I see that more detailed explanations are always
necessary but most times not so appropriate so not to bore the
reader.<br>
<br>
But to your details:<br>
<br>
The sub-particles must be mass-less as they move with speed of light
c. This motion with c is necessary to explain dilation.
(Historically this was already seen this way by Hendrik Lorentz and
Joseph Lamor around the year 1900; later replaced by Einstein's
approach which was purely mathematical rather than physical.)<br>
<br>
If the sub-particles ("Basic Particles") are mass-less then a
planetary model is not applicable. So the other possibility is that
they are bound to each other by a multi-pole field. This is not so
special in physics as the bind of atoms in a molecule is also a
multi-pole bind. Such field binds parts together and at the same
time keep a distance as one partner resides in the potential minimum
of the field of the other partner. In case of the bind between atoms
it is the electric force, in case of the basic particle it is the
strong force. But the structure of these fields is similar.<br>
<br>
There is no force necessary in the normal case to keep these
particles on their orbit as there is no mass. A force occurs if an
"external agent" will act. But to say it again: As the
sub-particles do not have any mass there is no equilibrium of forces
to define the circular path. The influence of an "external agent"
will of course be also a field. This field overlays the internal
field and for the time of such external action the fields are of
course distorted to a certain amount. This is the situation were one
can feel inertia.<br>
<br>
The "external agent" who makes the whole particle move will in the
normal case be an electric field. But may be as well any other kind
of force if existent. <br>
<br>
The orbital motion will explain an orbital momentum but also the
existence of a magnetic moment in the case of an electrically
charged particle. And that approach has very precise results from
purely classical calculations, no QM necessary. <br>
<br>
Maybe the fields in the particle are more complicated than I assume
them to be, but for the question of mass, magnetic moment etc. my
assumptions are sufficient. <br>
<br>
Best wishes back<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 03.02.2016 um 22:51 schrieb Wolfgang
Baer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56B27675.3020602@nascentinc.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
albrecht;<br>
Your paragraph in bold below is a very nice and concise way to
summarize your point, especially if the Lande factor can be fit.<br>
I have "Relativity Based on Physical Processes Rather Than
Space-Time" and the "can a photon be described...." article from
SPIE 2015<br>
I can see after eq. 2.6 the words "<i>this is now the inertial
mass</i>...'<br>
<br>
this calculation makes sense but works out because you have <br>
1) defined a specific binding field as a multipole bond<br>
2) assumed mass-less particles which react individually to some
"external agent" <br>
<br>
Is there a reference or can you explain both of these assumptions
or else one might think you backed into them.<br>
I mean your requirements for the sub-particles and their fields
may be more complicated than the effects they explain.<br>
<br>
"for example you say the internal motion must be circular in order
to account for angular momentum"<br>
<br>
Does that not imply an inertial mass when the particles are in
their equilibrium orbits? <br>
If it takes an external agent force to show the properties of
inertial mass, how does this equilibrium field have a minimum.<br>
in the planetary orbit model the minimum is produced by a a
coulomb force pulling in and a centripetal force pulling out<br>
how did you get your minimum?<br>
<br>
best wishes<br>
wolf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/30/2016 1:22 PM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56AD299A.7000008@a-giese.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hello Richard,<br>
<br>
yes, we have to assume fundamentals in physics, and which those
are, may be different for different physicists. In my view,
forces are fundamental phenomena where I do not see an
explanation on a lower level, at least at present. I follow QM
at this point in so far, as forces are realized by exchange
particles which are mass-less, move with c and have a distance
law of 1/r^2. .<br>
<br>
Momentum and inertia are in my view the same phenomenon. Someone
said it earlier in this discussion: Momentum is the motion of an
inertial mass. So, to explain inertial mass by momentum or
momentum by inertia as general explanation are in my view
tautological statements. There is something explained
essentially by itself, nothing new about it.<br>
<br>
<b>Inertia is caused in my view (I think explained here several
times) by a very fundamental process. Every extended object
must have inertia. This is caused by nothing than the
finiteness of the speed of light by which the internal forces
in an object propagate. And without internal forces an
extended object cannot exist. This is true for any type of
force, so in our world the strong force and the electric
force. In an elementary particle the strong force dominates,
so I have restricted my explanation mostly to the strong
force. To be precise, the electric force must not be
overlooked. In my model the consideration of the electric
force in the electron causes the Landé factor (very
precisely!)</b><br>
<br>
So, the fact that an extended object behaves inert, is not a
possibility or some special theory, but it is completely
unavoidable that an extended object is inert.<br>
<br>
Only because you mention it: In my model there does not exist a
gravitational mass because gravity has nothing to do with mass.
But this is another topic. If you are interested you can find it
explained on my web site "origin of gravity" (which is the no. 1
in the internet about this topic since 12 years).<br>
<br>
About Newton's law: As I have understood, Newton has defined
mass as F/a. 'F' is in his view an elementary quantity visible
e.g. by stretching a spring. 'a' is defined by length and time,
both are also elementaries for him in the way that length is
given by a prototype ruler and time by some sufficiently defined
oscillators like a pendulum. We have better definitions now
using means of higher precision, but that does not change the
idea behind.<br>
<br>
One can of course have a lot of cognition-related thoughts about
the understanding of these quantities, but that seems to me to
be beyond the level which we need here.<br>
<br>
One famous American physicist ones wrote: Mass is a great
mystery. I know that many understand it this way. But I am very
sure that my finding that every extended object has inertial
mass solves this "mystery" completely. It is my intention to
convince my colleagues about this since more than 15 year on
conferences and by the internet. And I have never got a refuting
argument. Most main stream physicists refer to Higgs and say
that one does not need another explanation. But never something
more substantial.<br>
<br>
My model of inertia is in some way similar to the Higgs
mechanism. According to the Higgs theory there are virtual
particles intermediately generated in the Higgs field. These
virtual particles couple to the real particle in view and keep
staying at rest in the same inertial system as the real
particle. If now the real particle is accelerated to any
direction, it moves off the virtual Higgs and that needs a
force. This force is inertia. - The similarity to my model is
that in my model the role of the virtual Higgs is realized by
the other (real) sub-particle in the elementary particle. <br>
<br>
My model does not explain why there are certain masses in
particles realized and others not. Otto Greulich has found a
numerical relation for the existing particles but no explanation
why it works. In his algorithm the factor alpha plays an
important role. And I have the impression that the relation of
strong force and electric force, which is described by alpha,
plays an essential role in the question if a particle is stable.
Otto is looking for a possible mechanism, but up to now he has
no solution. I also think about it, but presently also with no
success.<br>
<br>
To your last comment: Momentum is the product of inertial mass
and speed, as you surely know. Mass is scalar, that is right,
but speed is a vector and so it is unavoidable that the product,
called momentum, is a vector. But just from this definition of
momentum it is visible that momentum is not fundamental but a
combination of two other units. Isn't it?<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 28.01.2016 um 01:33 schrieb
Richard Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:32A31459-EDB2-4B1B-922F-4C838FEB7CD1@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> You want to explain inertia and therefore
momentum (in your view) by the strong force. But what is
your “mechanism” or explanation for the strong force? You
have not explained or even tried to explain the strong force
so you are actually doing what you are accusing me of doing
— not explaining what momentum is or what is its
“mechanism”. But I’m not trying to explain momentum, I’m
trying to explain inertial mass or inertia in terms of
momentum. If inertia can be explained in terms of momentum,
I would say that is progress. If this leads to a greater
insights into why inertial mass equals gravitational mass
(if it does), that would be further progress. Scientific
progress occurs in steps, it’s not all or nothing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Newton’s F=ma is actually a tautological or
circular relationship. A force F does not CAUSE
acceleration. Acceleration is observed and measured. “Force"
is DEFINED as ma, never observed. Or m is DEFINED as F/a.
“Mass" is also never observed. Physical objects are
hypothesized, observed, measured or inferred. None of
Newton’s laws have ever been experimentally proved, at least
according to MIT physics lecturer Walter Lewin (introduction
to mechanics). You can’t prove or disprove a definition.
F=ma is a circular relationship that works within certain
limits without knowing what either force or mass is
fundamentally.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> The cause of the inertia of the electron is
considered to be one of the deepest mysteries of physics.
Frank Wilczek in his article “The origin of mass” at <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physicsatmit/physicsatmit_03_wilczek_originofmass.pdf"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physicsatmit/physicsatmit_03_wilczek_originofmass.pdf">http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physicsatmit/physicsatmit_03_wilczek_originofmass.pdf</a></a> concludes: </div>
<div class="">
<div class="page" title="Page 12">
<div class="layoutArea">
<div class="column">
<p class=""><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt;
font-family: 'Granjon'" class="">"Still, as I’ve
already mentioned, our understanding of the origin
of mass is by no means complete. We have achieved
a beautiful and profound understanding of the
origin of </span><span style="font-size:
11.000000pt; font-family: 'Granjon'; font-style:
italic" class="">most </span><span
style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family:
'Granjon'" class="">of the mass of ordinary
matter, but not of </span><span style="font-size:
11.000000pt; font-family: 'Granjon'; font-style:
italic" class="">all </span><span
style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family:
'Granjon'" class="">of it. The value of the
electron mass, in particular, remains deeply
mysterious even in our most advanced speculations
about unification and string theory. And ordinary
matter, we have recently learned, supplies only a
small fraction of mass in the Universe as a whole.
More beautiful and profound revelations surely
await discovery. We continue to search for
concepts and theories that will allow us to
understand the origin of mass in all its forms, by
unveiling more of Nature’s hidden symmetries." </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">And Wilczek is talking about the origin of the
magnitude of the electron’s mass, not the cause of the
electron’s inertia.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I am not claiming, as you do, to derive the
electron’s mass m = 0.511 MeV/c^2 in a circular way from
the Bohr magneton ehbar/2m which isn’t even the electron’s
experimental magnetic moment, only an approximation
calculated from the known measured values of e, h and m.
But it is not tautological or circular to derive the
electron’s inertial mass m = 0.511Mev/c^2 from a circulating
photon model of an electron where this circulating photon
has (for no known reason) energy hf = 0.511MeV and momentum
p = 0.511MeV/c . After all, a photon’s rest mass (0 Mev/c^2)
is not the same as a photon’s inertial mass (hf/c^2). And
the rest mass m of a moving electron is not the same as the
inertial mass gamma m of this moving electron. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As far as what you say about the Higgs mechanism
and inertia, here’s an interesting quote from Bernhard
Haisch in <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.calphysics.org/articles/newscientist.html">http://www.calphysics.org/articles/newscientist.html</a> .
Haisch and his colleagues have been studying inertia and its
possible explanation for years: <span style="font-family:
verdana; font-size: small; text-align: justify;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">"But the
Higgs mechanism does not explain why mass, or its energy
equivalent, resists motion or reacts to gravity," says
Bernard Haisch of the California Institute for Physics and
Astrophysics in Palo Alto. He believes instead that
inertia and gravity are manifestations of far more
familiar effects. </span></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So the Higgs field, while it may “explain” why
some particles have rest mass and others don't, apparently
doesn’t explain the inertia of mass. So your explanation of
inertia is apparently not in competition with the Higgs
mechanism of mass. But I would say that your explanation of
inertial mass in terms of the strong nuclear force IS in
competition with the derivation of inertial mass from
momentum. And Occam’s razor and physical facts do apply.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">One more comment. Momentum is a vector quantity,
with both magnitude and direction. Inertial mass is a scalar
quantity, with magnitude only. So Inertia cannot be the same
as momentum unless inertia is also a vector quantity, having
direction as well as magnitude. Perhaps inertia IS a vector
quantity after all, subject to vector addition (and
cancellation). That would be interesting.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 27, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Albrecht Giese
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hello
Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
there is not necessarily a hierarchy between mass and
momentum. But the origin of all is the resistance
against a change of the motion state. That resistance
is called inertia. And this resistance causes momentum
as well as mass. <br class="">
<br class="">
If you understand the momentum as on the top of the
hierarchy, you have to explain which mechanism causes
momentum. There must be one. What is it?<br class="">
<br class="">
My explanation of inertia is the only working one
which I know. And which of course is not a
tautological explanation. The other explanation
followed by main stream is the Higgs model. That is
derived from QM, and that is something which I
personally do not like very much. But the strong
argument against the Higgs model is the fact that the
necessary Higgs field does not exist as far as we
know. And again, I have never heard about another
model of inertial which is not tautological. <br
class="">
<br class="">
My model for leptons and for quarks has to function as
it does, under the assumption that inertia has to be
explained. And we may not ask for Occam's Razor if
there is no alternative. I do not see any. <br
class="">
<br class="">
My model explains the photon in a fundamentally
similar way as a lepton and a quark. But for the
photon something has to be added to explain its
constant speed, i.e. the fact that it cannot be found
at rest. And the fact of twice the spin. This letter
point seems to me not too serious. <br class="">
<br class="">
The relativistic increase of the particle mass at
motion (not only the electron, but all) is easily and
straight explained by the model. Take the calculation
of the inertial mass and adjust the distance of the
sub-particles for the relativistic contraction. Then
the straight result is the new mass increased by the
factor gamma. Your find it in my web site about
"origin of mass". And the relation energy to mass:
E=mc^2 follows immediately from the same calculation.
Who else has ever deduced the famous formula of
Einstein? I do not know any else deduction which
refers to a physical mechanism. <br class="">
<br class="">
Strong force? In the 1940s calculations of the
electron have been made in Germany which were based on
the assumption that there are only electrical forces
in the particle. The resulting mass turned out to be
too low by a factor of ca. 300. This is about the
factor by which the strong force is stronger than the
electrical one. So there is no surprise that with the
assumption of the strong force the results are
correct. I think this is a good argument. Isn't it?<br
class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.01.2016 um 01:50
schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:7DEA6DFD-C1EB-4058-99AF-D71BF4807606@gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
Hello Albrecht,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I know that you object to my
derivation, but I am proposing that momentum is
primary and inertia is secondary. You have got
it backwards. The inertial mass of an electron
is (in my approach) quantitatively due to the
circulating internal momentum of its charged (or
uncharged) photon. By extension, the inertial
mass of all particles with rest mass is likely
due to internally circulating momenta. It is
true as you say that in a world without inertia
(or inertial mass) there would be no momentum,
but in a world without momentum there would also
be no inertia (or inertial mass). Inertia (or
inertial mass) is due to momentum (in my
approach). Momentum is not due to inertia. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I know that your electron
hypothesis attempts to derive the inertia of an
electron differently. But I think you will have
to admit that my derivation of the electron’s
inertial mass from the electron’s proposed
circulating internal photon momentum is very
much simpler than yours (which is by the way
based on highly questionable premises since
there is no accepted experimental evidence for
the strong nuclear force influencing electric
charges, zero experimental evidence for two
sub-particles in an electron, and your electron
model’s apparently negative rest mass due to its
negative internal potential energy), and thus by
Occam's Razor, much to be preferred. Plus, your
model doesn’t derive the inertial mass of a
photon as hf/c^2 or the inertial mass of a
relativistically moving electron as gamma m,
does it?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 25, 2016, at 8:33 AM,
Albrecht Giese <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
class=""> Dear Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
you know that I object to your
derivation of inertial mass. You deduce
it from momentum. That is mathematically
possible by using the known relations.
But it is not logical in so far as
momentum depends on inertia. In a world
without inertia there would be no
momentum.<br class="">
<br class="">
So we have to explain first the
mechanism of inertia itself, then we can
derive the momentum and the inertial
mass.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0907288F-7DBF-486D-B8E1-30751A151F73@gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Hello Vladimir and
Chandra and all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Yes, I definitely
support the idea of the ether as
material space, and that all
physical particles are derived from
this ether. This ether can also be
called a plenum or Cosmic Tension
Field.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I don’t however think
that it is necessary to explain the
inertial mass of particles in
relation to a "coefficient of
inertia” or "the amount of momentum
the ether resists." I have shown (<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a></a> )
by a very simple derivation that the
inertial mass m of an electron may
be derived from the momentum of the
circling photon in a
circulating-photon model of the
electron, whose circling photon has
momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 =
hf/c^2 , where Eo is the rest
energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and
f is the frequency of the
circulating photon in the resting
electron. Secondly, in a similar way
I derived a linearly moving photon's
inertial mass to be M-inertial =
hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s
frequency, even though a photon has
zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived
the inertial mass of a relativistic
electron, whose momentum is p=gamma
mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m ,
even though the moving electron's
rest mass is m. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I present these
derivations below, taken from the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://academia.edu/"
class="">academia.edu</a> session
on my electron inertia article at <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a></a> :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="js-non-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">ectron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/1%0A
%0A%2%0A09652036%0A/The_Origin_of_the_Elect%0Arons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v,
the
iner
tia
l mass c
alculation
above gives M
-in
ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at
6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1"
style="page: WordSection1;
font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px;
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white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">Yes, Vlad, that
is also my viewpoint.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">I do not remember
whether I have attached
this paper while
communicating with you
earlier. I call the
“plenum” Cosmic Tension
Field (CTF), to be
descriptive in its
essential properties.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;"
class="">Chandra.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);"
class=""> </span></a></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style:
solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181,
196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt;
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;"
class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;"
class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] (no subject)<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
Richard <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">I
barge into your discussion
without knowing your views
on a "plenum field" but if
it is an ether I
definitely think there is
one. A "coefficent of
inertia" might be defined
as the amount of momentum
the ether resists. In a
charged or gravitational
field this coefficent
would increase...I think
of this in terms of my
Beautiful Universe ether
of dielectric nodes,
except this may give the
wrong idea it is something
matter wades in.. not so.
Matter and ether are made
if the selfsame nodes of
energy!<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Cheers<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Vladimir<br
class="">
<br class="">
_____________________<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;"><br
class="">
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41
AM, Richard Gauthier <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"
class="">Hi Hodge,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"
class=""> I don’t
remember asking that.
But if I did, I’m glad
the question was
helpful.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"
class=""> I’m
thinking about inertia
these days. Do you or
others have any
insights about its
nature?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"
class="">
Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">On
Jan 20, 2016, at
1:43 PM, Hodge
John <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com">jchodge@frontier.com</a></a>> wrote:<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"
class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class="">Richard
Gauthier:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class="">You
asked if the
galaxy
redshift,
Pioneer
anomaly,
Pound--Rebka
experiment
model had a
velocity term.
I looked at
redshift data
for 1 galaxy
and found no
indication of
a velocity
term.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class="">I had
not noticed
this in the
equations.
Your
suggestion
that the
plenum field
can look like
the Higgs
field seems
valid. That
is, the
acceleration
of the plenum
field looks
like it adds
energy (mass)
is a Higgs
Field
characteristic.
Thus, the
plenum is
closer to the
idea of a
quantum field
and Higgs
field (weak
force).<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class="">Thanks
for the
insight.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
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0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class="">Hodge<span
style="font-family:
Helvetica,
sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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