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Hi Al,<br>
<br>
at one of your points I really disagree. The physical laws have to
be fulfilled in every frame. That means that all physical processes
have to obey the same laws in all frames. So also the process at the
double slit. But the rule given by de Broglie looks correct in only
one frame, that is the frame where the double slit is at rest. For
an observer in motion the diffraction pattern looks very similar as
for the observer at rest, but for the observer in motion the results
according to de Broglie are completely different, because the
momentum of the particle is different in a wide range in the frame
of a moving observer and so is the wavelength assigned to the
particle.<br>
<br>
The specific case: At electron scattering, the observer co-moving
with the electron will see a similar pattern as the observer at
rest, but de Broglie says that for this observer there does not
exist any pattern. That is strongly incorrect.<br>
<br>
The Schrödinger equation and also the Dirac function should have
correct results in different frames, at least at non-relativistic
speeds. This requirement is clearly violated through their use of de
Broglie's rule.<br>
<br>
Grüße<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
PS: Your article refers to "Stochastic Electrodynamics". That is in
my knowledge not standard physics and so a new assumption.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.02.2016 um 19:03 schrieb
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-22b65b8c-e2ba-4419-8e77-d6ce0bebfa1c-1454868180818@3capp-webde-bs57"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In my view the story in my paper has no new assunptions,
rather new words for old assumptions. As I, along with most
others, see it, there is no conflict with experiment, but a
less than fully transparent explantion for experimental
observations (particle beam diffrction) otherwise
unexplained. At the time of writing, and nowadays too
(although I'd to think that my paper rationalizes DeB's
story) it was the most widely accepted story for this
phenomna. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The only entities that logically need to be Lorentz
invariant are the particle. I the deB wave is not a
'Bestandteil' of the particle, but of its relations with its
envionment, then invariance is not defined nor useful.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>M.f.G. Al</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
07. Februar 2016 um 14:39 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
"Richard Gauthier" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
<br>
thank you for your reference. Your paper has a lot of
intelligent thoughts but also a lot of additional
assumptions. With reference to the de Broglie wave, I
think, is the situation much simpler on the level of
conservative knowledge. De Broglie has misunderstood
relativity (particularly dilation) and so seen a
conflict which does in fact not exist. He has solved
the conflict by inventing an additional "fictitious"
wave which has no other foundation in physics, and
also his "theorem of harmonic phases" which as well is
an invention without need. And his result is in
conflict with the experiment if we ask for Lorentz
invariance or even for Galilean invariance. - If we
follow the basic idea of de Broglie by, however,
avoiding his logical error about relativity, we come
easily to a description of matter waves without
logical conflicts. This does not need new philosophy
or other effort at this level.<br>
<br>
Best, Albrecht<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.02.2016 um 03:15
schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>DeBroglie's verbage is indeed quite rococo!
Nonetheless, his machinations, although
verbalized, in the true tradtion of quantum
mechanics, mysteriously, can be reinterpreted
(i.e., alternate verbage found without
changing any of the math) so as to tell a
fully, if (somewhat) hetrodoxical, story. See
#11 on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com"
target="_blank">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>cc: Waves are never a characteristic of a
single, point-like entity, but colletive
motion of a medium. IF they exist at all. My
view is that E&M waves are a fiction
wrought by Fourier analysis. The only real
physical part is an "interaction", which
mnight as well be thought of an absract string
between charges. Also, neutrons have electric
multipole moments; i.e., they are totally
neutral but not charge-free. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best, Al </div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 21:43 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie
Wave</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
<br>
true, in the frame of the particle the
dB wavelength is infinite. Because in
its own frame the momentum of the
particle is 0. The particle oscillates
with the frequency of the particle's
Zitterbewegung (which background fields
do you have in mind? De Brogie does not
mention them). This oscillation is in no
contradiction with this wavelength as
the phase speed is also infinite. For
the imagination, the latter means that
all points of that wave oscillate with
the same phase at any point.<br>
<br>
Which background waves do you have in
mind? What is the CNONOICAL momentum?
And what about E&M interactions? De
Broglie has not related his wave to a
specific field. An E&M field would
anyway have no effect in the case of
neutron scattering for which the same de
Broglie formalism is used. And into
which frame do you see the wave
Lorentz-transformed?<br>
<br>
So, an electron in his frame has an
infinite wavelength and in his frame has
the double slit moving towards the
particle. How can an interference at the
slits occur? No interference can happen
under these conditions. But, as I have
explained in the paper, the normal wave
which accompanies the electron by normal
rules (i.e. phase speed = c) will have
an interference with its own reflection,
which has then a wavelength which fits
to the expectation of de Broglie. But
that is a very local event (in a range
of approx. 10^-12 m for the electron)
and it is not at all a property of the
electron as de Broglie has thought.<br>
<br>
To say it again: The de Broglie
wavelength cannot be a steady property
of the particle. But Schrödinger and
Dirac have incorporated it into their QM
equations with this understanding.<br>
<br>
If I should have misunderstood you,
please show the mathematical
calculations which you mean.<br>
<br>
Ciao, Albrecht<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
05.02.2016 um 19:20 schrieb <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi: Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your arguments don't resonate
with me. The deB' wave length
is infinite in the particles
frame: it is the standing wave
formed by the inpinging
background waves having a freq.
= the particle's Zitterbewegung.
If these TWO waves are each
Lorentz x-formed to another
frame and added there, they
exhibit exactly the DeB'
modulation wavelength
proportional to the particle's
momentum. The only mysterious
feature then is that the
proportionality is to the
CNONICAL momentum, i.e.,
including the vector potential
of whatever exterior E&M
interactions are in-coming.
Nevertheless, everything works
our without contradiction. A
particle oscillates in place at
its Zitter freq. while the
Zitter signals are modulated by
the DeB' wavelength as they move
through slits, say.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, L</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px
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2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px
0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 12:28
Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div>Hi Richard and Al, hi
All,<br>
<br>
recently we had a discussion
here about two topics:<br>
<br>
1. The functionality of the
de Broglie wave,
particularly its wavelength<br>
if seen from a different
inertial system. Such cases
lead to illogical<br>
situations.<br>
2. The problem of the
apparent asymmetry at
relativistic dilation.<br>
<br>
I have investigated these
cases and found that they
are in some way<br>
connected. Relativistic
dilation is not as simple as
it is normally<br>
taken. It looks asymmetric
if it is incorrectly
treated. An asymmetry<br>
would falsify Special
Relativity. But it is in
fact symmetrical if<br>
properly handled and
understood.<br>
<br>
It is funny that both
problems are connected to
each other through the<br>
fact that de Broglie himself
has misinterpreted dilation.
From this<br>
incorrect understanding he
did not find another way out
than to invent<br>
his "theorem of phase
harmony"; with all logical
conflicts resulting<br>
from this approach.<br>
<br>
If relativity is properly
understood, the problem seen
by de Broglie<br>
does not exist. Equations
regarding matter waves can
be derived which<br>
work properly, i.e. conform
to the experiments but avoid
the logical<br>
conflicts.<br>
<br>
As announced, I have
composed a paper about this.
It can be found at:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"
target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a><br>
.<br>
<br>
I thank Richard Gauthier for
the discussion which we had
about this<br>
topic. It caused me to
investigate the problem and
to find a solution.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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