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<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>BUT, the laws of Physics for "being" in a frame are not the laws for interacting between frames! The deB. wave is not a feature of a particle in its own frame, but a feature of the interaction of such a particle with at least one other particle in another frame. When the two frames are moving with respect to each other, then the features of the interaction cannot be Lorentz invariants. When one particle is interacting with another particle (or ensemble---slit say) the relevant physics is determined by the deB wave in that sitation, whatever it looks like to an observer in a third frame with yet different relative velocities. It is a perspective effect: a tree is the same ontological size in fact no matter how small it appears to distant observers. Observed diminished size(s) cannot be "invriant." Appearances =/= ,,so sein''.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You have gotten your head stuck on the idea that deB. waves are characteristics intrinsic to particles in an of themselves. Recalibrate! DeB waves are charactteristics of the mutual interaction of particles.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best, Al</div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 07. Februar 2016 um 22:10 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <genmail@a-giese.de><br/>
<b>An:</b> af.kracklauer@web.de<br/>
<b>Cc:</b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org, "Richard Gauthier" <richgauthier@gmail.com><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
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<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br/>
<br/>
at one of your points I really disagree. The physical laws have to be fulfilled in every frame. That means that all physical processes have to obey the same laws in all frames. So also the process at the double slit. But the rule given by de Broglie looks correct in only one frame, that is the frame where the double slit is at rest. For an observer in motion the diffraction pattern looks very similar as for the observer at rest, but for the observer in motion the results according to de Broglie are completely different, because the momentum of the particle is different in a wide range in the frame of a moving observer and so is the wavelength assigned to the particle.<br/>
<br/>
The specific case: At electron scattering, the observer co-moving with the electron will see a similar pattern as the observer at rest, but de Broglie says that for this observer there does not exist any pattern. That is strongly incorrect.<br/>
<br/>
The Schrödinger equation and also the Dirac function should have correct results in different frames, at least at non-relativistic speeds. This requirement is clearly violated through their use of de Broglie's rule.<br/>
<br/>
Grüße<br/>
Albrecht<br/>
<br/>
PS: Your article refers to "Stochastic Electrodynamics". That is in my knowledge not standard physics and so a new assumption.<br/>
<br/>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.02.2016 um 19:03 schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
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<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In my view the story in my paper has no new assunptions, rather new words for old assumptions. As I, along with most others, see it, there is no conflict with experiment, but a less than fully transparent explantion for experimental observations (particle beam diffrction) otherwise unexplained. At the time of writing, and nowadays too (although I'd to think that my paper rationalizes DeB's story) it was the most widely accepted story for this phenomna. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The only entities that logically need to be Lorentz invariant are the particle. I the deB wave is not a 'Bestandteil' of the particle, but of its relations with its envionment, then invariance is not defined nor useful.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>M.f.G. Al</div>
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 07. Februar 2016 um 14:39 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="genmail@a-giese.de" target="_parent"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br/>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>, "Richard Gauthier" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br/>
<br/>
thank you for your reference. Your paper has a lot of intelligent thoughts but also a lot of additional assumptions. With reference to the de Broglie wave, I think, is the situation much simpler on the level of conservative knowledge. De Broglie has misunderstood relativity (particularly dilation) and so seen a conflict which does in fact not exist. He has solved the conflict by inventing an additional "fictitious" wave which has no other foundation in physics, and also his "theorem of harmonic phases" which as well is an invention without need. And his result is in conflict with the experiment if we ask for Lorentz invariance or even for Galilean invariance. - If we follow the basic idea of de Broglie by, however, avoiding his logical error about relativity, we come easily to a description of matter waves without logical conflicts. This does not need new philosophy or other effort at this level.<br/>
<br/>
Best, Albrecht<br/>
<br/>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.02.2016 um 03:15 schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
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<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>DeBroglie's verbage is indeed quite rococo! Nonetheless, his machinations, although verbalized, in the true tradtion of quantum mechanics, mysteriously, can be reinterpreted (i.e., alternate verbage found without changing any of the math) so as to tell a fully, if (somewhat) hetrodoxical, story. See #11 on <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com" target="_blank">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>cc: Waves are never a characteristic of a single, point-like entity, but colletive motion of a medium. IF they exist at all. My view is that E&M waves are a fiction wrought by Fourier analysis. The only real physical part is an "interaction", which mnight as well be thought of an absract string between charges. Also, neutrons have electric multipole moments; i.e., they are totally neutral but not charge-free. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best, Al </div>
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 05. Februar 2016 um 21:43 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="genmail@a-giese.de" target="_parent"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br/>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br/>
<br/>
true, in the frame of the particle the dB wavelength is infinite. Because in its own frame the momentum of the particle is 0. The particle oscillates with the frequency of the particle's Zitterbewegung (which background fields do you have in mind? De Brogie does not mention them). This oscillation is in no contradiction with this wavelength as the phase speed is also infinite. For the imagination, the latter means that all points of that wave oscillate with the same phase at any point.<br/>
<br/>
Which background waves do you have in mind? What is the CNONOICAL momentum? And what about E&M interactions? De Broglie has not related his wave to a specific field. An E&M field would anyway have no effect in the case of neutron scattering for which the same de Broglie formalism is used. And into which frame do you see the wave Lorentz-transformed?<br/>
<br/>
So, an electron in his frame has an infinite wavelength and in his frame has the double slit moving towards the particle. How can an interference at the slits occur? No interference can happen under these conditions. But, as I have explained in the paper, the normal wave which accompanies the electron by normal rules (i.e. phase speed = c) will have an interference with its own reflection, which has then a wavelength which fits to the expectation of de Broglie. But that is a very local event (in a range of approx. 10^-12 m for the electron) and it is not at all a property of the electron as de Broglie has thought.<br/>
<br/>
To say it again: The de Broglie wavelength cannot be a steady property of the particle. But Schrödinger and Dirac have incorporated it into their QM equations with this understanding.<br/>
<br/>
If I should have misunderstood you, please show the mathematical calculations which you mean.<br/>
<br/>
Ciao, Albrecht<br/>
<br/>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.02.2016 um 19:20 schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
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<div>Hi: Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your arguments don't resonate with me. The deB' wave length is infinite in the particles frame: it is the standing wave formed by the inpinging background waves having a freq. = the particle's Zitterbewegung. If these TWO waves are each Lorentz x-formed to another frame and added there, they exhibit exactly the DeB' modulation wavelength proportional to the particle's momentum. The only mysterious feature then is that the proportionality is to the CNONICAL momentum, i.e., including the vector potential of whatever exterior E&M interactions are in-coming. Nevertheless, everything works our without contradiction. A particle oscillates in place at its Zitter freq. while the Zitter signals are modulated by the DeB' wavelength as they move through slits, say.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, L</div>
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 05. Februar 2016 um 12:28 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div>Hi Richard and Al, hi All,<br/>
<br/>
recently we had a discussion here about two topics:<br/>
<br/>
1. The functionality of the de Broglie wave, particularly its wavelength<br/>
if seen from a different inertial system. Such cases lead to illogical<br/>
situations.<br/>
2. The problem of the apparent asymmetry at relativistic dilation.<br/>
<br/>
I have investigated these cases and found that they are in some way<br/>
connected. Relativistic dilation is not as simple as it is normally<br/>
taken. It looks asymmetric if it is incorrectly treated. An asymmetry<br/>
would falsify Special Relativity. But it is in fact symmetrical if<br/>
properly handled and understood.<br/>
<br/>
It is funny that both problems are connected to each other through the<br/>
fact that de Broglie himself has misinterpreted dilation. From this<br/>
incorrect understanding he did not find another way out than to invent<br/>
his "theorem of phase harmony"; with all logical conflicts resulting<br/>
from this approach.<br/>
<br/>
If relativity is properly understood, the problem seen by de Broglie<br/>
does not exist. Equations regarding matter waves can be derived which<br/>
work properly, i.e. conform to the experiments but avoid the logical<br/>
conflicts.<br/>
<br/>
As announced, I have composed a paper about this. It can be found at:<br/>
<br/>
<a href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength" target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a><br/>
.<br/>
<br/>
I thank Richard Gauthier for the discussion which we had about this<br/>
topic. It caused me to investigate the problem and to find a solution.<br/>
<br/>
Albrecht<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
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