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To All:<br>
This is a very interesting discussion, although I feel you two
(Albrecht, Al) and are talking past each other.<br>
The repetition of Albrecht's call to read his derivation is
appropriate. I have done so and see no problem with the conclusion
that extended particles will have inertia if c is finite. The
problem is not with the derivation but with the insistence that the
speed of light and particle extension are all that is required.
There are a lot of hidden assumptions (like what holds the extended
particle together, and why does a force on one side of an extended
particle not also move the other side) and if one adds them all up
does one come up with a simpler overall explanation for inertial
mass than just assuming inertial mass to begin with.<br>
<br>
However the issue I would like to question is ""interaction", which
mnight as well be thought of an absract string between charges."<br>
I've been trying to get an answer to the question "what are strings
made of" on ResearchGate and the best answer besides that it is an
abstract useful concept has been "Strings are made of smoke and
mirrors", However I lean toward Strings are made of Action, i.e. the
material of a world line. Is this what you ,Al, had in mind with the
quoted passage?<br>
<br>
Wolf<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/5/2016 6:15 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-67b38ada-96f4-4d0a-8fa6-ff53a191ad48-1454724949062@3capp-webde-bs37"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>DeBroglie's verbage is indeed quite rococo! Nonetheless,
his machinations, although verbalized, in the true tradtion
of quantum mechanics, mysteriously, can be reinterpreted
(i.e., alternate verbage found without changing any of the
math) so as to tell a fully, if (somewhat) hetrodoxical,
story. See #11 on <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>cc: Waves are never a characteristic of a single,
point-like entity, but colletive motion of a medium. IF
they exist at all. My view is that E&M waves are a
fiction wrought by Fourier analysis. The only real physical
part is an "interaction", which mnight as well be thought of
an absract string between charges. Also, neutrons have
electric multipole moments; i.e., they are totally neutral
but not charge-free. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best, Al </div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 21:43 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Richard Gauthier"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
<br>
true, in the frame of the particle the dB wavelength
is infinite. Because in its own frame the momentum of
the particle is 0. The particle oscillates with the
frequency of the particle's Zitterbewegung (which
background fields do you have in mind? De Brogie does
not mention them). This oscillation is in no
contradiction with this wavelength as the phase speed
is also infinite. For the imagination, the latter
means that all points of that wave oscillate with the
same phase at any point.<br>
<br>
Which background waves do you have in mind? What is
the CNONOICAL momentum? And what about E&M
interactions? De Broglie has not related his wave to a
specific field. An E&M field would anyway have no
effect in the case of neutron scattering for which the
same de Broglie formalism is used. And into which
frame do you see the wave Lorentz-transformed?<br>
<br>
So, an electron in his frame has an infinite
wavelength and in his frame has the double slit moving
towards the particle. How can an interference at the
slits occur? No interference can happen under these
conditions. But, as I have explained in the paper, the
normal wave which accompanies the electron by normal
rules (i.e. phase speed = c) will have an interference
with its own reflection, which has then a wavelength
which fits to the expectation of de Broglie. But that
is a very local event (in a range of approx. 10^-12 m
for the electron) and it is not at all a property of
the electron as de Broglie has thought.<br>
<br>
To say it again: The de Broglie wavelength cannot be a
steady property of the particle. But Schrödinger and
Dirac have incorporated it into their QM equations
with this understanding.<br>
<br>
If I should have misunderstood you, please show the
mathematical calculations which you mean.<br>
<br>
Ciao, Albrecht<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.02.2016 um 19:20
schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi: Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your arguments don't resonate with me. The
deB' wave length is infinite in the particles
frame: it is the standing wave formed by the
inpinging background waves having a freq. =
the particle's Zitterbewegung. If these TWO
waves are each Lorentz x-formed to another
frame and added there, they exhibit exactly
the DeB' modulation wavelength proportional to
the particle's momentum. The only mysterious
feature then is that the proportionality is to
the CNONICAL momentum, i.e., including the
vector potential of whatever exterior E&M
interactions are in-coming. Nevertheless,
everything works our without contradiction. A
particle oscillates in place at its Zitter
freq. while the Zitter signals are modulated
by the DeB' wavelength as they move through
slits, say.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, L</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 12:28 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie
Wave</div>
<div>Hi Richard and Al, hi All,<br>
<br>
recently we had a discussion here about
two topics:<br>
<br>
1. The functionality of the de Broglie
wave, particularly its wavelength<br>
if seen from a different inertial system.
Such cases lead to illogical<br>
situations.<br>
2. The problem of the apparent asymmetry
at relativistic dilation.<br>
<br>
I have investigated these cases and found
that they are in some way<br>
connected. Relativistic dilation is not as
simple as it is normally<br>
taken. It looks asymmetric if it is
incorrectly treated. An asymmetry<br>
would falsify Special Relativity. But it
is in fact symmetrical if<br>
properly handled and understood.<br>
<br>
It is funny that both problems are
connected to each other through the<br>
fact that de Broglie himself has
misinterpreted dilation. From this<br>
incorrect understanding he did not find
another way out than to invent<br>
his "theorem of phase harmony"; with all
logical conflicts resulting<br>
from this approach.<br>
<br>
If relativity is properly understood, the
problem seen by de Broglie<br>
does not exist. Equations regarding matter
waves can be derived which<br>
work properly, i.e. conform to the
experiments but avoid the logical<br>
conflicts.<br>
<br>
As announced, I have composed a paper
about this. It can be found at:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"
target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a><br>
.<br>
<br>
I thank Richard Gauthier for the
discussion which we had about this<br>
topic. It caused me to investigate the
problem and to find a solution.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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