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    Hi Al,<br>
    <br>
    the choice of de Broglie is not suboptimal, it is clearly wrong.
    Badly wrong. The wave he has introduced does not exist, and if it
    would exist its behaviour would cause a physical behaviour which is
    in conflict with measurements (if those are comprehensively done).<br>
    <br>
    I agree with you that the main object now is to move forward. But we
    will not move successfully forward if we carry millstones with us.
    De Broglie's wave is a millstone. I just had a look into a new
    textbook about QM, which was highly recommended by our university.
    It makes full use of de Broglie's relation between momentum and
    wavelength, so this is unfortunately not just history. <br>
    <br>
    But looking into the history: Bohr, Sommerfeld and others have used
    the result of de Broglie to explain quantum numbers. Particularly
    the quantisation of the angular momentum on atomic shells is
    explained by "standing waves" where the wavelength is the one
    defined by dB. This obviously hides the true reason of this
    quantisation, but as anyone believes that the Ansatz using de
    Broglie is right, nobody is looking for the correct cause. - This is
    one of the reasons for our sticking physics.<br>
    <br>
    Tschüss back<br>
    Albrecht<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.2016 um 14:57 schrieb
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-72537819-ce78-41a7-b82e-b4d7545f4651-1455026275771@3capp-webde-bs59"
      type="cite">
      <div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
        <div>
          <div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>As you fully know, the very same idea can be expressed in
            various languages.  This is true of physics also. The very
            same structure can be attached to variuos words and images.
             I do not defend deBroglie's choice of words and images. I
            too find his choice suboptimal and somewhat contrdictory.
             So what?  He was playing his hand at that time with the
            hand he was delt at that time.  Since then, other ideas have
            been found in the deck, as it were.  I find that, without
            changing any of his math, one can tell a story that is
            vastly less etherial and mysterious and, depending on the
            reader's depth of analysis, less self-contradictory.  I
            think my story is the one DeBrogle would have told if he had
            been inspired by some facits of SED.  And, some people have
            a greater affinty and interest in abstract structures, in
            particular when their mathematical redintion seems to work,
            that for the stories told for their explication.  This is
            particularly true of all things QM. </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>Anyway, the main object now (2016) is to move forward,
            not critique historical personalitites.  So, I'm trying to
            contribute to this discussion by adding what I know now, and
            what I have found to be useful.  We are "doing" physics, not
            history.  Let's make new errors, not just grind away on the
            old ones!</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>BTW, to my info, both Dirac and Schrödinger would agree
            that deBroglie proposed some not too cogent arguments
            regarding the nature of QM-wave functions. Still, the best
            there at that time. All the same, they too went to their
            graves without having found a satisfactory interpretation.
             SED throws some new ingredients into the mix.  </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>Tschuss, Al </div>
          <div> 
            <div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
              10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
              word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
              <div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag,
                09. Februar 2016 um 13:41 Uhr<br>
                <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
                <b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
                "Richard Gauthier" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br>
                <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
              <div name="quoted-content">
                <div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
                  <br>
                  I have the impression that you have a solution for
                  particle scattering which is in some way related to
                  the idea of de Broglie. (I also have of course a
                  solution). But was this the goal of our discussion and
                  of my original contribution? It was not! My objection
                  was de Broglie's original idea as stated in his thesis
                  and as taken over by Schrödinger and Dirac.<br>
                  <br>
                  You have a lot of elements in your argumentation which
                  I do not find in the thesis of de Broglie. (There is
                  e.g. nothing at dB about SED ore background.)<br>
                  <br>
                  The essential point of our discussion is the meaning
                  of his wave - and his wavelength. I think it is very
                  obvious from his thesis (which you clearly know) that
                  his "fictitious wave" accompanies a particle like the
                  electron<i> all of the time</i>. There is no
                  interaction mentioned except that there is an observer
                  at rest who measures the frequency of the particle.
                  But without influencing the particle.<br>
                  <br>
                  Now it is normal knowledge that a frequency and as
                  well a wavelength appears changed for an observer who
                  is in motion. This is caused by the Doppler effect.
                  But the Doppler effect will never cause that a finite
                  wavelength changes to Infinite if an observer moves at
                  some speed unequal to c. But just that happens to the
                  wave invented by de Broglie. It follows the equation<br>
                  <br>
                  lambda = h/(m*v)    where v is the speed difference
                  between the particle and the observer (to say it this
                  time this way). And this is in conflict to any physics
                  we know.<br>
                  <br>
                  Best, Albrecht<br>
                  <br>
                   
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.02.2016 um 17:20
                    schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                      href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
                  <blockquote>
                    <div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
                      <div>
                        <div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>Your challenge is easy!  In fact my last
                          responce covered it.   The RELEVANT velocity
                          is the relative velocity between the particle
                          and the slit; not that between the
                          observer-particle or observer-slit.   An
                          observer will see all kinds of distortions of
                          the events, starting with simple persepctive
                          due to being at some distance from the slit
                          and its registration screen.  In additon this
                          observer will see those deB waves affecting
                          the particle (NOT from the particle, nor from
                          the slit, but from the universal background
                          there before either the particle or slit came
                          into being)  as perspectively-relativistically
                          distorted (twin-clock type distortion).  BUT,
                          the observer will still see the same over-all
                          background because the totality of background
                          signals (not just those to which this particle
                          is tuned), i.e., its spectral energy density,
                          is itself Lorentz invariant.  That is, the
                          observer's  motion does not  enable it to
                          empirically distinguish between the background
                          in the various frames, nor does the background
                          engender friction forces.</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>You have got to get your head around the
                          idea that deB waves are independant of
                          particles whatever their frame.</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>Schrördinger did toy with some aspects that
                          deBroglie used, but never did succeed in
                          rationalizing his eq. in those or any other
                          terms.  For him, when died, wave functions
                          were ontologically completely mysterious.
                           From SED proponents, I'm told, my thoughts in
                          #7 on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                            href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com"
                            target="_blank">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a>,
                          are unique in formulating S's eq. in terms of
                          deB concepts.  Try it, maybe you'll like it.  </div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>There are other SED-type stories too, but
                          as they are based on diffusion (parabolic, not
                          hyperbolic) precesses, I find them self
                          contradictory.</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>ciao, Al</div>
                        <div> 
                          <div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
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                            <div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag,
                              08. Februar 2016 um 141 Uhr<br>
                              <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                href="genmail@a-giese.de"
                                target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
                              <b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
                                target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
                              "Richard Gauthier" <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
                                target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
                              <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie
                              Wave</div>
                            <div>
                              <div style="background-color:
                                rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
                                <br>
                                if you follow de Broglie, you should
                                have an explanation for the following
                                experiment (here again):<br>
                                <br>
                                Electrons move at 0.1 c towards the
                                double slit. Behind the double slit
                                there is an interference pattern
                                generated, which in the frame of the
                                slit follows the rule of de Broglie. But
                                now there is an observer also moving at
                                0.1 c parallel to the beam of electrons.
                                In his frame the electrons have
                                momentum=0 and so wavelength=infinite.
                                That means: No interference pattern. But
                                there is in fact a pattern which does
                                not disappear just because there is
                                another observer. And the moving
                                observer will see the pattern. - This is
                                a falsification of de Broglie's rule.
                                What else?<br>
                                <br>
                                The understanding that the de Broglie
                                wave is a property of the particle (even
                                though depending on their speed, but not
                                on an interaction) was not my idea but
                                the one of Schrödinger and Dirac and
                                many others. Also by de Broglie himself.<br>
                                <br>
                                Ciao Albrecht<br>
                                <br>
                                 
                                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                  08.02.2016 um 03:30 schrieb <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <div style="font-family:
                                    Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
                                    <div>
                                      <div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div>BUT, the laws of Physics for
                                        "being" in a frame are not the
                                        laws for interacting between
                                        frames!  The deB. wave is not a
                                        feature of a particle in its own
                                        frame, but a feature of the
                                        interaction of such a particle
                                        with at least one other particle
                                        in another frame.  When the two
                                        frames are moving with respect
                                        to each other, then the features
                                        of the interaction cannot be
                                        Lorentz invariants.  When one
                                        particle is interacting with
                                        another particle (or
                                        ensemble---slit say) the
                                        relevant physics is determined
                                        by the deB wave in that
                                        sitation, whatever it looks like
                                        to an observer in a third frame
                                        with yet different relative
                                        velocities.  It is a perspective
                                        effect: a tree is the same
                                        ontological size in fact no
                                        matter how small it appears to
                                        distant observers.  Observed
                                        diminished size(s) cannot be
                                        "invriant."  Appearances =/=
                                        ,,so sein''.</div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div>You have gotten your head
                                        stuck on the idea that deB.
                                        waves are characteristics
                                        intrinsic to particles in an of
                                        themselves.  Recalibrate!  DeB
                                        waves are charactteristics of
                                        the mutual interaction of
                                        particles.</div>
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div>Best, Al</div>
                                      <div> 
                                        <div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px
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                                          <div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px
                                            0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
                                            07. Februar 2016 um 22:10
                                            Uhr<br>
                                            <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese"
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                              href="genmail@a-giese.de"
                                              target="_parent"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
                                            <b>An:</b> <a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br>
                                            <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
                                            "Richard Gauthier" <a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
                                            <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                            [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div
                                              style="background-color:
                                              rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
                                              <br>
                                              at one of your points I
                                              really disagree. The
                                              physical laws have to be
                                              fulfilled in every frame.
                                              That means that all
                                              physical processes have to
                                              obey the same laws in all
                                              frames. So also the
                                              process at the double
                                              slit. But the rule given
                                              by de Broglie looks
                                              correct in only one frame,
                                              that is the frame where
                                              the double slit is at
                                              rest. For an observer in
                                              motion the diffraction
                                              pattern looks very similar
                                              as for the observer at
                                              rest, but for the observer
                                              in motion the results
                                              according to de Broglie
                                              are completely different,
                                              because the momentum of
                                              the particle is different
                                              in a wide range in the
                                              frame of a moving observer
                                              and so is the wavelength
                                              assigned to the particle.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              The specific case: At
                                              electron scattering, the
                                              observer co-moving with
                                              the electron will see a
                                              similar pattern as the
                                              observer at rest, but de
                                              Broglie says that for this
                                              observer there does not
                                              exist any pattern. That is
                                              strongly incorrect.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              The Schrödinger equation
                                              and also the Dirac
                                              function should have
                                              correct results in
                                              different frames, at least
                                              at non-relativistic
                                              speeds. This requirement
                                              is clearly violated
                                              through their use of de
                                              Broglie's rule.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Grüße<br>
                                              Albrecht<br>
                                              <br>
                                              PS: Your article refers to
                                              "Stochastic
                                              Electrodynamics". That is
                                              in my knowledge not
                                              standard physics and so a
                                              new assumption.<br>
                                              <br>
                                               
                                              <div
                                                class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                                07.02.2016 um 19:03
                                                schrieb <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
                                                  target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
                                              <blockquote>
                                                <div style="font-family:
                                                  Verdana;font-size:
                                                  12.0px;">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div>In my view the
                                                      story in my paper
                                                      has no new
                                                      assunptions,
                                                      rather new words
                                                      for old
                                                      assumptions.  As
                                                      I, along with most
                                                      others, see it,
                                                      there is no
                                                      conflict with
                                                      experiment, but a
                                                      less than fully
                                                      transparent
                                                      explantion for
                                                      experimental
                                                      observations
                                                      (particle beam
                                                      diffrction)
                                                      otherwise
                                                      unexplained.  At
                                                      the time of
                                                      writing, and
                                                      nowadays too
                                                      (although I'd to
                                                      think that my
                                                      paper rationalizes
                                                      DeB's story) it
                                                      was the most
                                                      widely accepted
                                                      story for this
                                                      phenomna.  </div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div>The only
                                                      entities that
                                                      logically need to
                                                      be Lorentz
                                                      invariant are the
                                                      particle.  I the
                                                      deB wave is not a
                                                      'Bestandteil' of
                                                      the particle, but
                                                      of its relations
                                                      with its
                                                      envionment, then
                                                      invariance is not
                                                      defined nor
                                                      useful.</div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div>M.f.G.  Al</div>
                                                    <div> 
                                                      <div
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                                                        <div
                                                          style="margin:
                                                          0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
                                                          07. Februar
                                                          2016 um 14:39
                                                          Uhr<br>
                                                          <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht
                                                          Giese" <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
                                                          <b>An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                                          href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                                          href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
                                                          "Richard
                                                          Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                                          href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
                                                          <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                                          [General] De
                                                          Broglie Wave</div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          thank you for
                                                          your
                                                          reference.
                                                          Your paper has
                                                          a lot of
                                                          intelligent
                                                          thoughts but
                                                          also a lot of
                                                          additional
                                                          assumptions.
                                                          With reference
                                                          to the de
                                                          Broglie wave,
                                                          I think, is
                                                          the situation
                                                          much simpler
                                                          on the level
                                                          of
                                                          conservative
                                                          knowledge. De
                                                          Broglie has
                                                          misunderstood
                                                          relativity
                                                          (particularly
                                                          dilation) and
                                                          so seen a
                                                          conflict which
                                                          does in fact
                                                          not exist. He
                                                          has solved the
                                                          conflict by
                                                          inventing an
                                                          additional
                                                          "fictitious"
                                                          wave which has
                                                          no other
                                                          foundation in
                                                          physics, and
                                                          also his
                                                          "theorem of
                                                          harmonic
                                                          phases" which
                                                          as well is an
                                                          invention
                                                          without need.
                                                          And his result
                                                          is in conflict
                                                          with the
                                                          experiment if
                                                          we ask for
                                                          Lorentz
                                                          invariance or
                                                          even for
                                                          Galilean
                                                          invariance. - 
                                                          If we follow
                                                          the basic idea
                                                          of de Broglie
                                                          by, however,
                                                          avoiding his
                                                          logical error
                                                          about
                                                          relativity, we
                                                          come easily to
                                                          a description
                                                          of matter
                                                          waves without
                                                          logical
                                                          conflicts.
                                                          This does not
                                                          need new
                                                          philosophy or
                                                          other effort
                                                          at this level.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Best, Albrecht<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                           
                                                          <div
                                                          class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                                          06.02.2016 um
                                                          03:15 schrieb
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
                                                          target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
                                                          <blockquote>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:
                                                          Verdana;font-size:
                                                          12.0px;">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Hi
                                                          Albrecht:</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>DeBroglie's
                                                          verbage is
                                                          indeed quite
                                                          rococo!
                                                           Nonetheless,
                                                          his
                                                          machinations,
                                                          although
                                                          verbalized, in
                                                          the true
                                                          tradtion of
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanics,
                                                          mysteriously,
                                                          can be
                                                          reinterpreted
                                                          (i.e.,
                                                          alternate
                                                          verbage found
                                                          without
                                                          changing any
                                                          of the math)
                                                          so as to tell
                                                          a fully, if
                                                          (somewhat)
                                                          hetrodoxical,
                                                          story.  See
                                                          #11 on <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                                          href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a></a>.</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>cc:
                                                           Waves are
                                                          never a
                                                          characteristic
                                                          of a single,
                                                          point-like
                                                          entity, but
                                                          colletive
                                                          motion of a
                                                          medium.  IF
                                                          they exist at
                                                          all.  My view
                                                          is that
                                                          E&M waves
                                                          are a fiction
                                                          wrought by
                                                          Fourier
                                                          analysis.  The
                                                          only real
                                                          physical part
                                                          is an
                                                          "interaction",
                                                          which mnight
                                                          as well be
                                                          thought of an
                                                          absract string
                                                          between
                                                          charges.
                                                           Also,
                                                          neutrons have
                                                          electric
                                                          multipole
                                                          moments; i.e.,
                                                          they are
                                                          totally
                                                          neutral but
                                                          not
                                                          charge-free. </div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>Best,
                                                           Al </div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          <div
                                                          style="margin:
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                                                          rgb(195,217,229);">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="margin:
                                                          0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
                                                          05. Februar
                                                          2016 um 21:43
                                                          Uhr<br>
                                                          <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht
                                                          Giese" <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="genmail@a-giese.de" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
                                                          <b>An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                                          href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b> "Richard
                                                          Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                                          href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
                                                          <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                                          [General] De
                                                          Broglie Wave</div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          true, in the
                                                          frame of the
                                                          particle the
                                                          dB wavelength
                                                          is infinite.
                                                          Because in its
                                                          own frame the
                                                          momentum of
                                                          the particle
                                                          is 0. The
                                                          particle
                                                          oscillates
                                                          with the
                                                          frequency of
                                                          the particle's
                                                          Zitterbewegung
                                                          (which
                                                          background
                                                          fields do you
                                                          have in mind?
                                                          De Brogie does
                                                          not mention
                                                          them). This
                                                          oscillation is
                                                          in no
                                                          contradiction
                                                          with this
                                                          wavelength as
                                                          the phase
                                                          speed is also
                                                          infinite. For
                                                          the
                                                          imagination,
                                                          the latter
                                                          means that all
                                                          points of that
                                                          wave oscillate
                                                          with the same
                                                          phase at any
                                                          point.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Which 
                                                          background
                                                          waves do you
                                                          have in mind?
                                                          What is the
                                                          CNONOICAL
                                                          momentum? And
                                                          what about
                                                          E&M
                                                          interactions?
                                                          De Broglie has
                                                          not related
                                                          his wave to a
                                                          specific
                                                          field. An
                                                          E&M field
                                                          would anyway
                                                          have no effect
                                                          in the case of
                                                          neutron
                                                          scattering for
                                                          which the same
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          formalism is
                                                          used. And into
                                                          which frame do
                                                          you see the
                                                          wave
                                                          Lorentz-transformed?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          So, an
                                                          electron in
                                                          his frame has
                                                          an infinite
                                                          wavelength and
                                                          in his frame
                                                          has the double
                                                          slit moving
                                                          towards the
                                                          particle. How
                                                          can an
                                                          interference
                                                          at the slits
                                                          occur? No
                                                          interference
                                                          can happen
                                                          under these
                                                          conditions.
                                                          But, as I have
                                                          explained in
                                                          the paper, the
                                                          normal wave
                                                          which
                                                          accompanies
                                                          the electron
                                                          by normal
                                                          rules (i.e.
                                                          phase speed =
                                                          c) will have
                                                          an
                                                          interference
                                                          with its own
                                                          reflection,
                                                          which has then
                                                          a wavelength
                                                          which fits to
                                                          the
                                                          expectation of
                                                          de Broglie.
                                                          But that is a
                                                          very local
                                                          event (in a
                                                          range of
                                                          approx. 10^-12
                                                          m for the
                                                          electron) and
                                                          it is not at
                                                          all a property
                                                          of the
                                                          electron as de
                                                          Broglie has
                                                          thought.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To say it
                                                          again: The de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelength
                                                          cannot be a
                                                          steady
                                                          property of
                                                          the particle.
                                                          But
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          and Dirac have
                                                          incorporated
                                                          it into their
                                                          QM equations
                                                          with this
                                                          understanding.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          If I should
                                                          have
                                                          misunderstood
                                                          you, please
                                                          show the
                                                          mathematical
                                                          calculations
                                                          which you
                                                          mean.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Ciao, Albrecht<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                           
                                                          <div
                                                          class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                                          05.02.2016 um
                                                          19:20 schrieb
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
                                                          target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
                                                          <blockquote>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:
                                                          Verdana;font-size:
                                                          12.0px;">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Hi:
                                                          Albrecht:</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>Your
                                                          arguments
                                                          don't resonate
                                                          with me.  The
                                                          deB' wave
                                                          length is
                                                          infinite in
                                                          the particles
                                                          frame: it is
                                                          the standing
                                                          wave formed by
                                                          the inpinging
                                                          background
                                                          waves having a
                                                          freq. = the
                                                          particle's
                                                          Zitterbewegung.
                                                           If these TWO
                                                          waves are each
                                                          Lorentz
                                                          x-formed to
                                                          another frame
                                                          and added
                                                          there, they
                                                          exhibit
                                                          exactly the
                                                          DeB'
                                                          modulation
                                                          wavelength
                                                          proportional
                                                          to the
                                                          particle's
                                                          momentum.  The
                                                          only
                                                          mysterious
                                                          feature then
                                                          is that the
                                                          proportionality
                                                          is to the
                                                          CNONICAL
                                                          momentum,
                                                          i.e.,
                                                          including the
                                                          vector
                                                          potential of
                                                          whatever
                                                          exterior
                                                          E&M
                                                          interactions
                                                          are in-coming.
                                                           Nevertheless,
                                                          everything
                                                          works our
                                                          without
                                                          contradiction.
                                                           A particle
                                                          oscillates in
                                                          place at its
                                                          Zitter freq.
                                                          while the
                                                          Zitter signals
                                                          are modulated
                                                          by the DeB'
                                                          wavelength as
                                                          they move
                                                          through slits,
                                                          say.</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>ciao,  L</div>
                                                          <div> 
                                                          <div
                                                          style="margin:
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                                                          rgb(195,217,229);">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="margin:
                                                          0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
                                                          05. Februar
                                                          2016 um 12:28
                                                          Uhr<br>
                                                          <b>Von:</b> "Albrecht
                                                          Giese" <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="genmail@a-giese.de" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
                                                          <b>An:</b> "Richard
                                                          Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                                          href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a>, <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                                          href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br>
                                                          <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                                          [General] De
                                                          Broglie Wave</div>
                                                          <div>Hi
                                                          Richard and
                                                          Al, hi All,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          recently we
                                                          had a
                                                          discussion
                                                          here about two
                                                          topics:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          1. The
                                                          functionality
                                                          of the de
                                                          Broglie wave,
                                                          particularly
                                                          its wavelength<br>
                                                          if seen from a
                                                          different
                                                          inertial
                                                          system. Such
                                                          cases lead to
                                                          illogical<br>
                                                          situations.<br>
                                                          2. The problem
                                                          of the
                                                          apparent
                                                          asymmetry at
                                                          relativistic
                                                          dilation.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I have
                                                          investigated
                                                          these cases
                                                          and found that
                                                          they are in
                                                          some way<br>
                                                          connected.
                                                          Relativistic
                                                          dilation is
                                                          not as simple
                                                          as it is
                                                          normally<br>
                                                          taken. It
                                                          looks
                                                          asymmetric if
                                                          it is
                                                          incorrectly
                                                          treated. An
                                                          asymmetry<br>
                                                          would falsify
                                                          Special
                                                          Relativity.
                                                          But it is in
                                                          fact
                                                          symmetrical if<br>
                                                          properly
                                                          handled and
                                                          understood.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          It is funny
                                                          that both
                                                          problems are
                                                          connected to
                                                          each other
                                                          through the<br>
                                                          fact that de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          himself has
                                                          misinterpreted
                                                          dilation. From
                                                          this<br>
                                                          incorrect
                                                          understanding
                                                          he did not
                                                          find another
                                                          way out than
                                                          to invent<br>
                                                          his "theorem
                                                          of phase
                                                          harmony"; with
                                                          all logical
                                                          conflicts
                                                          resulting<br>
                                                          from this
                                                          approach.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          If relativity
                                                          is properly
                                                          understood,
                                                          the problem
                                                          seen by de
                                                          Broglie<br>
                                                          does not
                                                          exist.
                                                          Equations
                                                          regarding
                                                          matter waves
                                                          can be derived
                                                          which<br>
                                                          work properly,
                                                          i.e. conform
                                                          to the
                                                          experiments
                                                          but avoid the
                                                          logical<br>
                                                          conflicts.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As announced,
                                                          I have
                                                          composed a
                                                          paper about
                                                          this. It can
                                                          be found at:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a></a><br>
                                                          .<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I thank
                                                          Richard
                                                          Gauthier for
                                                          the discussion
                                                          which we had
                                                          about this<br>
                                                          topic. It
                                                          caused me to
                                                          investigate
                                                          the problem
                                                          and to find a
                                                          solution.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Albrecht<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          ---<br>
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