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Al:<br>
I fully agree with your sentiments <br>
Kant believed das-ding-an-sich though the basis for classical
mechanics was absolutely unknowable.<br>
If Kant is right all theories about the causes of our sensations are
just calculation tools<br>
Nevertheless even incorrect theories can provide temporary correct
guidance to decision making and that temporary success can lead to
permanent laws and beliefs that are very hard to change unless one
can show real benefits.<br>
<br>
so lets concentrate on benefits.<br>
If Albrecht could show how his insight into inertia could lead to
anti gravity devices his photo and his theory would be in the front
pages of TIME or Der Spiegel <br>
<br>
Certainly simplification can be a benefit on its own, especially for
teachers and students<br>
<br>
I myself have given myself the goal of integrating subjective and
objective experience into a single theory with the benefit of
placing our lives into a larger context that should prevent us from
bankrupting ourselves with the ridiculous battle against death. <br>
<br>
best,<br>
wolf<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/8/2016 5:15 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-45029ad1-8545-4492-a4dc-e104a7fdb6ec-1454980513292@3capp-webde-bs41"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Wolfgang & all:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I am not now deliberatly trying to say something about
the origin of inertia or mass. In general I do not try to
explain such things, rather to zero in on what strike me as
egriegious errors.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Otherwise, from familiarity with formal logic, I think I
know that, all "explication, explantion, modeling" in the
end (actually beginning) is based on essentially unknowable
(in the sense of logic) assertions. What all humans seem to
me to mean by these words is: to associate whatever is to be
explained with some common, mesoscopic experience---even
while that experience itself remains in the formal-logic
sense absolutely "out of the blue." From this view point,
efforts to explain everything are bound, at best, to wind up
being circular, at worst: self-inconsistent or just another
urban legend or ersatz religion. Science, then, becomes an
effort to mathematiclly encode material processes so as to
better manipulate then in the construction of better
mouse-traps. In the end, everything fundamental will remain
beyond grasp, starting with life and death.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>An example of a faux explantion is the reduction of some
microscopic force to a "contact force", which we humans feel
we understand from everyday experience. Trouble is, that
experience is misunderstood! At the microscopic level we
now know that no electron in the molecules of our fingers
ever "contacts" an electron in the molecules of a pencil we
pick up. ALL force, therefore, has an
"action-at-a-distance" character when considered at the
micro-nano scale. Our human contact-experience is a
delusion. Explanations reducing force to contact are
essentially mistaken.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For what it's worth, Al</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag,
08. Februar 2016 um 20:26 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Wolfgang Baer" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">To All:<br>
This is a very interesting discussion, although I feel
you two (Albrecht, Al) and are talking past each
other.<br>
The repetition of Albrecht's call to read his
derivation is appropriate. I have done so and see no
problem with the conclusion that extended particles
will have inertia if c is finite. The problem is not
with the derivation but with the insistence that the
speed of light and particle extension are all that is
required. There are a lot of hidden assumptions (like
what holds the extended particle together, and why
does a force on one side of an extended particle not
also move the other side) and if one adds them all up
does one come up with a simpler overall explanation
for inertial mass than just assuming inertial mass to
begin with.<br>
<br>
However the issue I would like to question is
""interaction", which mnight as well be thought of an
absract string between charges."<br>
I've been trying to get an answer to the question
"what are strings made of" on ResearchGate and the
best answer besides that it is an abstract useful
concept has been "Strings are made of smoke and
mirrors", However I lean toward Strings are made of
Action, i.e. the material of a world line. Is this
what you ,Al, had in mind with the quoted passage?<br>
<br>
Wolf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_parent">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/5/2016 6:15 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>DeBroglie's verbage is indeed quite rococo!
Nonetheless, his machinations, although
verbalized, in the true tradtion of quantum
mechanics, mysteriously, can be reinterpreted
(i.e., alternate verbage found without
changing any of the math) so as to tell a
fully, if (somewhat) hetrodoxical, story. See
#11 on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com"
target="_blank">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a>.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>cc: Waves are never a characteristic of a
single, point-like entity, but colletive
motion of a medium. IF they exist at all. My
view is that E&M waves are a fiction
wrought by Fourier analysis. The only real
physical part is an "interaction", which
mnight as well be thought of an absract string
between charges. Also, neutrons have electric
multipole moments; i.e., they are totally
neutral but not charge-free. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best, Al </div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 21:43 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de"
target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De Broglie
Wave</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">Hi Al,<br>
<br>
true, in the frame of the particle the
dB wavelength is infinite. Because in
its own frame the momentum of the
particle is 0. The particle oscillates
with the frequency of the particle's
Zitterbewegung (which background fields
do you have in mind? De Brogie does not
mention them). This oscillation is in no
contradiction with this wavelength as
the phase speed is also infinite. For
the imagination, the latter means that
all points of that wave oscillate with
the same phase at any point.<br>
<br>
Which background waves do you have in
mind? What is the CNONOICAL momentum?
And what about E&M interactions? De
Broglie has not related his wave to a
specific field. An E&M field would
anyway have no effect in the case of
neutron scattering for which the same de
Broglie formalism is used. And into
which frame do you see the wave
Lorentz-transformed?<br>
<br>
So, an electron in his frame has an
infinite wavelength and in his frame has
the double slit moving towards the
particle. How can an interference at the
slits occur? No interference can happen
under these conditions. But, as I have
explained in the paper, the normal wave
which accompanies the electron by normal
rules (i.e. phase speed = c) will have
an interference with its own reflection,
which has then a wavelength which fits
to the expectation of de Broglie. But
that is a very local event (in a range
of approx. 10^-12 m for the electron)
and it is not at all a property of the
electron as de Broglie has thought.<br>
<br>
To say it again: The de Broglie
wavelength cannot be a steady property
of the particle. But Schrödinger and
Dirac have incorporated it into their QM
equations with this understanding.<br>
<br>
If I should have misunderstood you,
please show the mathematical
calculations which you mean.<br>
<br>
Ciao, Albrecht<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
05.02.2016 um 19:20 schrieb <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi: Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your arguments don't resonate
with me. The deB' wave length
is infinite in the particles
frame: it is the standing wave
formed by the inpinging
background waves having a freq.
= the particle's Zitterbewegung.
If these TWO waves are each
Lorentz x-formed to another
frame and added there, they
exhibit exactly the DeB'
modulation wavelength
proportional to the particle's
momentum. The only mysterious
feature then is that the
proportionality is to the
CNONICAL momentum, i.e.,
including the vector potential
of whatever exterior E&M
interactions are in-coming.
Nevertheless, everything works
our without contradiction. A
particle oscillates in place at
its Zitter freq. while the
Zitter signals are modulated by
the DeB' wavelength as they move
through slits, say.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, L</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px
5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0
10.0px 10.0px;border-left:
2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px
0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar 2016 um 12:28
Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese"
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div>Hi Richard and Al, hi
All,<br>
<br>
recently we had a discussion
here about two topics:<br>
<br>
1. The functionality of the
de Broglie wave,
particularly its wavelength<br>
if seen from a different
inertial system. Such cases
lead to illogical<br>
situations.<br>
2. The problem of the
apparent asymmetry at
relativistic dilation.<br>
<br>
I have investigated these
cases and found that they
are in some way<br>
connected. Relativistic
dilation is not as simple as
it is normally<br>
taken. It looks asymmetric
if it is incorrectly
treated. An asymmetry<br>
would falsify Special
Relativity. But it is in
fact symmetrical if<br>
properly handled and
understood.<br>
<br>
It is funny that both
problems are connected to
each other through the<br>
fact that de Broglie himself
has misinterpreted dilation.
From this<br>
incorrect understanding he
did not find another way out
than to invent<br>
his "theorem of phase
harmony"; with all logical
conflicts resulting<br>
from this approach.<br>
<br>
If relativity is properly
understood, the problem seen
by de Broglie<br>
does not exist. Equations
regarding matter waves can
be derived which<br>
work properly, i.e. conform
to the experiments but avoid
the logical<br>
conflicts.<br>
<br>
As announced, I have
composed a paper about this.
It can be found at:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"
target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a><br>
.<br>
<br>
I thank Richard Gauthier for
the discussion which we had
about this<br>
topic. It caused me to
investigate the problem and
to find a solution.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
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