<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> The reason your formula m=hbar/Rc works so well to derive the electron’s mass m is that if you solve it for R you get R= hbar/mc = 1/2pi h/mc . This radius R is the radius of a circle whose circumference is one Compton wavelength h/mc (the wavelength of a photon having the energy E=mc^2 of a resting electron.) If the electron’s charge magnitude e moves at light-speed in a single loop circle of this circumference h/mc (corresponding to a photon momentum of mc), the magnetic moment that is generated by this circulating light-speed electric charge is EXACTLY the Bohr magneton ehbar/2m . Check this using M = I A if you don’t believe me. So when you find that 2 pi R = lambda in your Powerpoint slide , this is just saying that lambda is the circumference of a circle which has R as its radius. This calculation has no bearing on the size or inertial mass of a photon. Plus, there is no experimental evidence that a photon consists of either 2 or 4 particles, just one (same as for the electron). Your derivation of the electron's inertia seems to ignore that your two massless light-speed particles move in an orbit of circumference one Compton wavelength h/mc which generates the Bohr magneton ehbar/2m . So it’s no surprise at all (and no genuine derivation of the electron’s mass) to derive the electron’s mass m from the Bohr magneton ehbar/2m in your electron model. You have no photon model and no derivation of a photon’s inertial mass. And your 2-particle electron model, though it has given you much satisfaction over the years, and rightly so as it is your original mental creation, is unfortunately a non-starter in serious physics.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> Richard</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 10, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Albrecht Giese <<a href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" class="">genmail@a-giese.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<font color="#990000" class="">Sorry! I have forgotten the attachment. Now
included.</font><br class="">
<br class="">
Hello Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
good question!<br class="">
<br class="">
My model works originally for leptons and for quarks. The photon is
somewhat different visible through the different spin. So, I am not
sure that the photon can be described by two sub-particles, maybe
the description needs four sub-particles. But this means only a
limited correction factor.<br class="">
<br class="">
For the determination of the mass, the model needs the size of the
particle. For the electron I have determined the size from the
magnetic moment. In case of the photon the wavelength can be taken
as a measure for the size. If the wavelength is inserted into the
equation for mass, then the dynamical mass (equivalently the energy)
is the result. And that fits well.<br class="">
<br class="">
I have attached two pages of my power-point presentation in San
Diego. There you can see the calculation. The calculation is done
there the other way around. I start with the energy, convert it to
the mass and show that the resulting size of the photon corresponds
to its wavelength. - In case of any questions, please ask.<br class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 10.02.2016 um 17:41 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:F6673E1F-3E91-4561-BB0F-3F4970273CB3@gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""> If you have solved the problem of inertia, then
the inertial mass of a photon should also be explainable by your
two-particle electron model. Is it?</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 10, 2016, at 5:13 AM, Albrecht Giese <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi Wolf,<br class="">
<br class="">
why do you think that I am frustrated? Why should I? Since
I found 17 years ago the mechanism of inertia, which
functions so straight and logical with precise results, I
am continuously happy. And the appreciation by interested
physicists is great. Since 14 years my site about mass in
internationally #1 in the internet. Only sometimes the
mass site of Nobel Prize winner Frank Wilzcek is one step
higher. But that is good companionship.<br class="">
<br class="">
True that it is a problem with Main Stream. They do not
object but just do not care. They love the Higgs model
even though it is proven not to work. - It just need
patience. I still have it.<br class="">
<br class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<big class=""> </big>Yes, quantum numbers work fine, but
they are physically little or not founded. It is similar
to the known Pauli Principle. That also works, but nobody
knows why. And the bad thing is that nobody from Main
Stream concerned about this non-understanding. That is the
biggest weakness in today's physics in my view.<br class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.2016 um 20:35
schrieb Wolfgang Baer:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56BA3F8C.7000106@nascentinc.com" type="cite" class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
I can feel your frustration, Albrecht, <br class="">
The oldies are probably all wrong, but it's important to
remember that right or wrong they give us the platform
from which to see farther.<br class="">
"standing on the shoulders of others", and right or
wrong they give us something tangible to argue about<br class="">
and what quantum numbers have done for us to organize
chemistry is amazing.<br class="">
<br class="">
wolf<br class="">
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/2016 10:18 AM,
Albrecht Giese wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56BA2D87.5090908@a-giese.de" type="cite" class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
the choice of de Broglie is not suboptimal, it is
clearly wrong. Badly wrong. The wave he has introduced
does not exist, and if it would exist its behaviour
would cause a physical behaviour which is in conflict
with measurements (if those are comprehensively done).<br class="">
<br class="">
I agree with you that the main object now is to move
forward. But we will not move successfully forward if
we carry millstones with us. De Broglie's wave is a
millstone. I just had a look into a new textbook about
QM, which was highly recommended by our university. It
makes full use of de Broglie's relation between
momentum and wavelength, so this is unfortunately not
just history. <br class="">
<br class="">
But looking into the history: Bohr, Sommerfeld and
others have used the result of de Broglie to explain
quantum numbers. Particularly the quantisation of the
angular momentum on atomic shells is explained by
"standing waves" where the wavelength is the one
defined by dB. This obviously hides the true reason of
this quantisation, but as anyone believes that the
Ansatz using de Broglie is right, nobody is looking
for the correct cause. - This is one of the reasons
for our sticking physics.<br class="">
<br class="">
Tschüss back<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.2016 um 14:57
schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:trinity-72537819-ce78-41a7-b82e-b4d7545f4651-1455026275771@3capp-webde-bs59" type="cite" class="">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">As you fully know, the very same
idea can be expressed in various languages.
This is true of physics also. The very same
structure can be attached to variuos words and
images. I do not defend deBroglie's choice of
words and images. I too find his choice
suboptimal and somewhat contrdictory. So
what? He was playing his hand at that time
with the hand he was delt at that time. Since
then, other ideas have been found in the deck,
as it were. I find that, without changing any
of his math, one can tell a story that is
vastly less etherial and mysterious and,
depending on the reader's depth of analysis,
less self-contradictory. I think my story is
the one DeBrogle would have told if he had
been inspired by some facits of SED. And,
some people have a greater affinty and
interest in abstract structures, in particular
when their mathematical redintion seems to
work, that for the stories told for their
explication. This is particularly true of all
things QM. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Anyway, the main object now (2016)
is to move forward, not critique historical
personalitites. So, I'm trying to contribute
to this discussion by adding what I know now,
and what I have found to be useful. We are
"doing" physics, not history. Let's make new
errors, not just grind away on the old ones!</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">BTW, to my info, both Dirac and
Schrödinger would agree that deBroglie
proposed some not too cogent arguments
regarding the nature of QM-wave functions.
Still, the best there at that time. All the
same, they too went to their graves without
having found a satisfactory interpretation.
SED throws some new ingredients into the mix.
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Tschuss, Al </div>
<div class="">
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px
10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px;
border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 09.
Februar 2016 um 13:41 Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
"Richard Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re: [General] De
Broglie Wave</div>
<div name="quoted-content" class="">
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);" class="">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
I have the impression that you have a
solution for particle scattering which
is in some way related to the idea of de
Broglie. (I also have of course a
solution). But was this the goal of our
discussion and of my original
contribution? It was not! My objection
was de Broglie's original idea as stated
in his thesis and as taken over by
Schrödinger and Dirac.<br class="">
<br class="">
You have a lot of elements in your
argumentation which I do not find in the
thesis of de Broglie. (There is e.g.
nothing at dB about SED ore background.)<br class="">
<br class="">
The essential point of our discussion is
the meaning of his wave - and his
wavelength. I think it is very obvious
from his thesis (which you clearly know)
that his "fictitious wave" accompanies a
particle like the electron<i class="">
all of the time</i>. There is no
interaction mentioned except that there
is an observer at rest who measures the
frequency of the particle. But without
influencing the particle.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now it is normal knowledge that a
frequency and as well a wavelength
appears changed for an observer who is
in motion. This is caused by the Doppler
effect. But the Doppler effect will
never cause that a finite wavelength
changes to Infinite if an observer moves
at some speed unequal to c. But just
that happens to the wave invented by de
Broglie. It follows the equation<br class="">
<br class="">
lambda = h/(m*v) where v is the speed
difference between the particle and the
observer (to say it this time this way).
And this is in conflict to any physics
we know.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
08.02.2016 um 17:20 schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="x-msg://106/af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Your challenge is
easy! In fact my last responce
covered it. The RELEVANT
velocity is the relative
velocity between the particle
and the slit; not that between
the observer-particle or
observer-slit. An observer
will see all kinds of
distortions of the events,
starting with simple persepctive
due to being at some distance
from the slit and its
registration screen. In additon
this observer will see those deB
waves affecting the particle
(NOT from the particle, nor from
the slit, but from the universal
background there before either
the particle or slit came into
being) as
perspectively-relativistically
distorted (twin-clock type
distortion). BUT, the observer
will still see the same over-all
background because the totality
of background signals (not just
those to which this particle is
tuned), i.e., its spectral
energy density, is itself
Lorentz invariant. That is, the
observer's motion does not
enable it to empirically
distinguish between the
background in the various
frames, nor does the background
engender friction forces.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">You have got to get
your head around the idea that
deB waves are independant of
particles whatever their frame.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Schrördinger did toy
with some aspects that deBroglie
used, but never did succeed in
rationalizing his eq. in those
or any other terms. For him,
when died, wave functions were
ontologically completely
mysterious. From SED
proponents, I'm told, my
thoughts in #7 on <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a>,
are unique in formulating S's
eq. in terms of deB concepts.
Try it, maybe you'll like it. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">There are other
SED-type stories too, but as
they are based on diffusion
(parabolic, not hyperbolic)
precesses, I find them self
contradictory.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">ciao, Al</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px
5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0
10.0px 10.0px;border-left:
2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);" class="">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px
0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Montag,
08. Februar 2016 um 141 Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="x-msg://106/af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="x-msg://106/general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
"Richard Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave</div>
<div class="">
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);" class="">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
if you follow de Broglie,
you should have an
explanation for the
following experiment (here
again):<br class="">
<br class="">
Electrons move at 0.1 c
towards the double slit.
Behind the double slit
there is an interference
pattern generated, which
in the frame of the slit
follows the rule of de
Broglie. But now there is
an observer also moving at
0.1 c parallel to the beam
of electrons. In his frame
the electrons have
momentum=0 and so
wavelength=infinite. That
means: No interference
pattern. But there is in
fact a pattern which does
not disappear just because
there is another observer.
And the moving observer
will see the pattern. -
This is a falsification of
de Broglie's rule. What
else?<br class="">
<br class="">
The understanding that the
de Broglie wave is a
property of the particle
(even though depending on
their speed, but not on an
interaction) was not my
idea but the one of
Schrödinger and Dirac and
many others. Also by de
Broglie himself.<br class="">
<br class="">
Ciao Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
08.02.2016 um 03:30
schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi
Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">BUT,
the laws of
Physics for
"being" in a frame
are not the laws
for interacting
between frames!
The deB. wave is
not a feature of a
particle in its
own frame, but a
feature of the
interaction of
such a particle
with at least one
other particle in
another frame.
When the two
frames are moving
with respect to
each other, then
the features of
the interaction
cannot be Lorentz
invariants. When
one particle is
interacting with
another particle
(or
ensemble---slit
say) the relevant
physics is
determined by the
deB wave in that
sitation, whatever
it looks like to
an observer in a
third frame with
yet different
relative
velocities. It is
a perspective
effect: a tree is
the same
ontological size
in fact no matter
how small it
appears to distant
observers.
Observed
diminished size(s)
cannot be
"invriant."
Appearances =/=
,,so sein''.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">You
have gotten your
head stuck on the
idea that deB.
waves are
characteristics
intrinsic to
particles in an of
themselves.
Recalibrate! DeB
waves are
charactteristics
of the mutual
interaction of
particles.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Best,
Al</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
10.0px 5.0px
5.0px
10.0px;padding:
10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left:
2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);" class="">
<div style="margin:
0 0 10.0px 0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 22:10
Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
"Richard
Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave</div>
<div class="">
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);" class="">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
at one of your
points I
really
disagree. The
physical laws
have to be
fulfilled in
every frame.
That means
that all
physical
processes have
to obey the
same laws in
all frames. So
also the
process at the
double slit.
But the rule
given by de
Broglie looks
correct in
only one
frame, that is
the frame
where the
double slit is
at rest. For
an observer in
motion the
diffraction
pattern looks
very similar
as for the
observer at
rest, but for
the observer
in motion the
results
according to
de Broglie are
completely
different,
because the
momentum of
the particle
is different
in a wide
range in the
frame of a
moving
observer and
so is the
wavelength
assigned to
the particle.<br class="">
<br class="">
The specific
case: At
electron
scattering,
the observer
co-moving with
the electron
will see a
similar
pattern as the
observer at
rest, but de
Broglie says
that for this
observer there
does not exist
any pattern.
That is
strongly
incorrect.<br class="">
<br class="">
The
Schrödinger
equation and
also the Dirac
function
should have
correct
results in
different
frames, at
least at
non-relativistic
speeds. This
requirement is
clearly
violated
through their
use of de
Broglie's
rule.<br class="">
<br class="">
Grüße<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
PS: Your
article refers
to "Stochastic
Electrodynamics".
That is in my
knowledge not
standard
physics and so
a new
assumption.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
07.02.2016 um
19:03 schrieb
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi
Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">In
my view the
story in my
paper has no
new
assunptions,
rather new
words for old
assumptions.
As I, along
with most
others, see
it, there is
no conflict
with
experiment,
but a less
than fully
transparent
explantion for
experimental
observations
(particle beam
diffrction)
otherwise
unexplained.
At the time
of writing,
and nowadays
too (although
I'd to think
that my paper
rationalizes
DeB's story)
it was the
most widely
accepted story
for this
phenomna. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">The
only entities
that logically
need to be
Lorentz
invariant are
the particle.
I the deB
wave is not a
'Bestandteil'
of the
particle, but
of its
relations with
its
envionment,
then
invariance is
not defined
nor useful.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">M.f.G.
Al</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
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<div style="margin:
0 0 10.0px 0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 14:39
Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>,
"Richard
Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave</div>
<div class="">
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);" class="">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
thank you for
your
reference.
Your paper has
a lot of
intelligent
thoughts but
also a lot of
additional
assumptions.
With reference
to the de
Broglie wave,
I think, is
the situation
much simpler
on the level
of
conservative
knowledge. De
Broglie has
misunderstood
relativity
(particularly
dilation) and
so seen a
conflict which
does in fact
not exist. He
has solved the
conflict by
inventing an
additional
"fictitious"
wave which has
no other
foundation in
physics, and
also his
"theorem of
harmonic
phases" which
as well is an
invention
without need.
And his result
is in conflict
with the
experiment if
we ask for
Lorentz
invariance or
even for
Galilean
invariance. -
If we follow
the basic idea
of de Broglie
by, however,
avoiding his
logical error
about
relativity, we
come easily to
a description
of matter
waves without
logical
conflicts.
This does not
need new
philosophy or
other effort
at this level.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
06.02.2016 um
03:15 schrieb
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi
Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">DeBroglie's
verbage is
indeed quite
rococo!
Nonetheless,
his
machinations,
although
verbalized, in
the true
tradtion of
quantum
mechanics,
mysteriously,
can be
reinterpreted
(i.e.,
alternate
verbage found
without
changing any
of the math)
so as to tell
a fully, if
(somewhat)
hetrodoxical,
story. See
#11 on <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a>.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">cc:
Waves are
never a
characteristic
of a single,
point-like
entity, but
colletive
motion of a
medium. IF
they exist at
all. My view
is that
E&M waves
are a fiction
wrought by
Fourier
analysis. The
only real
physical part
is an
"interaction",
which mnight
as well be
thought of an
absract string
between
charges.
Also,
neutrons have
electric
multipole
moments; i.e.,
they are
totally
neutral but
not
charge-free. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Best,
Al </div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
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<div style="margin:
0 0 10.0px 0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 21:43
Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> "Richard
Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave</div>
<div class="">
<div style="background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);" class="">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
true, in the
frame of the
particle the
dB wavelength
is infinite.
Because in its
own frame the
momentum of
the particle
is 0. The
particle
oscillates
with the
frequency of
the particle's
Zitterbewegung
(which
background
fields do you
have in mind?
De Brogie does
not mention
them). This
oscillation is
in no
contradiction
with this
wavelength as
the phase
speed is also
infinite. For
the
imagination,
the latter
means that all
points of that
wave oscillate
with the same
phase at any
point.<br class="">
<br class="">
Which
background
waves do you
have in mind?
What is the
CNONOICAL
momentum? And
what about
E&M
interactions?
De Broglie has
not related
his wave to a
specific
field. An
E&M field
would anyway
have no effect
in the case of
neutron
scattering for
which the same
de Broglie
formalism is
used. And into
which frame do
you see the
wave
Lorentz-transformed?<br class="">
<br class="">
So, an
electron in
his frame has
an infinite
wavelength and
in his frame
has the double
slit moving
towards the
particle. How
can an
interference
at the slits
occur? No
interference
can happen
under these
conditions.
But, as I have
explained in
the paper, the
normal wave
which
accompanies
the electron
by normal
rules (i.e.
phase speed =
c) will have
an
interference
with its own
reflection,
which has then
a wavelength
which fits to
the
expectation of
de Broglie.
But that is a
very local
event (in a
range of
approx. 10^-12
m for the
electron) and
it is not at
all a property
of the
electron as de
Broglie has
thought.<br class="">
<br class="">
To say it
again: The de
Broglie
wavelength
cannot be a
steady
property of
the particle.
But
Schrödinger
and Dirac have
incorporated
it into their
QM equations
with this
understanding.<br class="">
<br class="">
If I should
have
misunderstood
you, please
show the
mathematical
calculations
which you
mean.<br class="">
<br class="">
Ciao, Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
05.02.2016 um
19:20 schrieb
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi:
Albrecht:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Your
arguments
don't resonate
with me. The
deB' wave
length is
infinite in
the particles
frame: it is
the standing
wave formed by
the inpinging
background
waves having a
freq. = the
particle's
Zitterbewegung.
If these TWO
waves are each
Lorentz
x-formed to
another frame
and added
there, they
exhibit
exactly the
DeB'
modulation
wavelength
proportional
to the
particle's
momentum. The
only
mysterious
feature then
is that the
proportionality
is to the
CNONICAL
momentum,
i.e.,
including the
vector
potential of
whatever
exterior
E&M
interactions
are in-coming.
Nevertheless,
everything
works our
without
contradiction.
A particle
oscillates in
place at its
Zitter freq.
while the
Zitter signals
are modulated
by the DeB'
wavelength as
they move
through slits,
say.</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">ciao,
L</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
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<div style="margin:
0 0 10.0px 0;" class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 12:28
Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br class="">
<b class="">An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave</div>
<div class="">Hi
Richard and
Al, hi All,<br class="">
<br class="">
recently we
had a
discussion
here about two
topics:<br class="">
<br class="">
1. The
functionality
of the de
Broglie wave,
particularly
its wavelength<br class="">
if seen from a
different
inertial
system. Such
cases lead to
illogical<br class="">
situations.<br class="">
2. The problem
of the
apparent
asymmetry at
relativistic
dilation.<br class="">
<br class="">
I have
investigated
these cases
and found that
they are in
some way<br class="">
connected.
Relativistic
dilation is
not as simple
as it is
normally<br class="">
taken. It
looks
asymmetric if
it is
incorrectly
treated. An
asymmetry<br class="">
would falsify
Special
Relativity.
But it is in
fact
symmetrical if<br class="">
properly
handled and
understood.<br class="">
<br class="">
It is funny
that both
problems are
connected to
each other
through the<br class="">
fact that de
Broglie
himself has
misinterpreted
dilation. From
this<br class="">
incorrect
understanding
he did not
find another
way out than
to invent<br class="">
his "theorem
of phase
harmony"; with
all logical
conflicts
resulting<br class="">
from this
approach.<br class="">
<br class="">
If relativity
is properly
understood,
the problem
seen by de
Broglie<br class="">
does not
exist.
Equations
regarding
matter waves
can be derived
which<br class="">
work properly,
i.e. conform
to the
experiments
but avoid the
logical<br class="">
conflicts.<br class="">
<br class="">
As announced,
I have
composed a
paper about
this. It can
be found at:<br class="">
<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a><br class="">
.<br class="">
<br class="">
I thank
Richard
Gauthier for
the discussion
which we had
about this<br class="">
topic. It
caused me to
investigate
the problem
and to find a
solution.<br class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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