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Hello Richard,<br>
<br>
I think that de Broglie's problem was not so much that he did not
have a more detailed model of an elementary particle. De Broglie has
described very clearly what his problem was. It was the same
question which you have asked my after my talk in San Diego. It is
the following apparent conflict:<br>
<br>
As there is E = h * frequency = mc^2, (where m is the dynamical
mass), the frequency must increase by the factor gamma in the case
that this object is set to motion and so its energy increases. On
the other hand he concluded that at motion the frequency has to be
reduced by this factor gamma because of relativistic dilation. -
This latter conclusion was his error. For an observer at rest,
dilation does not mean a decrease, but an increase of the frequency.
Formally this is given by the time-related Lorentz transformation:
t' = gamma* (t-vx/c^2) . In the case of an observer at rest, there
is v=0, so t' = gamma*t , and this is an increase in the speed of
time and so an increase in frequency. If this is understood and
taken into account, then de Broglie's motivation for his wave is
without a reason. And all the rest is covered by normal physics.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.02.2016 um 02:40 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E16299FA-3A8F-4D69-A098-A957916E2D26@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I think you are on to a good line of thinking
here. De Broglie derived his wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) using
incomplete knowledge of the electron, i.e. without knowing what
was the source of the electron's fundamental frequency f in his
relationship E = hf = gamma mc^2 . He assumed that every
particle with mass m has a fundamental frequency f which is
proportional to its energy E=hf= gamma mc^2, and which increases
with the speed of a moving particle. At the end of his thesis de
Broglie admitted that his derivation was only formal and lacked
a knowledge of the physical source of this frequency. E=hf is
Einstein's relationship for the energy to frequency of a PHOTON,
as de Broglie knew. But de Broglie missed the idea that this
frequency f in an electron is actually the frequency of an
electrically charged photon composing the electron. (He was
pursuing his idea that matter might have wave properties just as
light can have particle properties.) (Of course, a charged
photon will also have wavelike properties!) </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As the frequency f of this charged photon increases
with electron speed through hf=gamma mc^2, the charged photon's
wavelength LAMBDA = h/(gamma mc) decreases with the electron's
speed (since c = f LAMBDA is constant for the charged photon.)
The de Broglie wavelength is simply derived from the charged
photon’s LAMBDA and therefore is a real, measurable wavelength
in a particular reference frame (just like a photon’s wavelength
is a real, measurable wavelength in a particular reference
frame.) Schrodinger took the de Broglie wavelength h/(gamma mv)
into Schrodinger's non-relativistic equation as h/mv = h/p ,
also without recognizing that the electron is a circulating
charged photon. The quantum operator (-hbar^2)/2m
d^2(PSI)/dx^2 in Schrodinger’s equation pulls out the
electron’s (charged photon’s) non-relativistic kinetic energy
p^2/2m from the eigenfunction function PSI, while the operator
ihbar d(PSI)/dt pulls out the electron’s (charged photon’s)
non-relativistic total energy from the eigenfunction PSI. For
example, in the ground state of the hydrogen atom, when the
eigenvalue energy for n=1 is E1= -13.6 eV, the total energy of
the bound electron (charged photon) is E=mc^2 - 13.6 eV .</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 10, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Albrecht Giese <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><small style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Hi
Chandra,<br class="">
<br class="">
my concern is that de Broglie violated an essential point
of our physical understanding. That is the equivalence of
all frames. If this would be violated, then we would have
to find a new set of physical laws as soon as we are in a
different frame. That means for instance, if we have a lab
on a ship, the physical results there would be different
from the physical laws on land and we had to re-invent our
complete physical system there. Similar in any plane,
similar on the Moon. I am afraid that we would have to
give up doing physics if this would be the case. So the
independence of the frame, which is philosophically the
symmetry of space, is an essential precondition to do
physics as we know it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
This fundamental rule is violated by de Broglie. He has
related the wavelength of his "fictitious wave" to the
momentum of the particle which is guided by this wave. Now
there is always a frame in which the particle is at rest
and so momentum = zero. Consequently the wavelength is
infinite. But a wave with infinite length does not have
the properties which de Broglie needs to explain the
phenomena he is interested in. (And he only saw the need
to introduce such wave as he misunderstood relativistic
dilation.) And it is also unnecessary in so far as
electron scattering (as an example) can be perfectly
explained with the normal understanding of waves, as we
have it for EM waves.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
The biggest impact which I see is the fact that this
relation between wavelength and momentum was incorporated
into the QM equations of Schrödinger and of Dirac (and of
others) to describe the spatial part of that equation.
That can never be correct. Why is it not noticed? The
other relation used, the one of energy and frequency (E =
h * frequency) for the temporal development, is correct,
and most calculations in QM are about energy. So the error
seems acceptable for the normal business. But that does
not change the fact that the rest is incorrect (even
though rewarded by the Nobel Prize).<br class="">
<br class="">
I find it funny that there is such a big error in the
middle of QM since 90 years and nobody becomes aware of
it. If we want a development in physics, we have at the
first place to get rid of errors which are so obvious.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</small><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Am 10.02.2016 um
17:42 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BY2PR05MB18961DDDB1854DC5899B01D093D70@BY2PR05MB1896.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="">Hi
Albrecht: You are tackling a tough problem and the
mainstream would not show sympathy because, for
them, the prevailing framework is “working”! Why
rock the boat?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="">I do
not have much to contribute. But, I would suggest
that you pay attention to the details of measuring
process (Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology,
or IPM-E). How do we draw the conclusion that a body
has “inertia of motion”. We always need two or more
bodies to somehow interact and display some changes
(data). What is the interaction mediating force
(potential gradient)? From what outcome do we draw
the conclusion that one or both the bodies are
displaying the property we have named “inertia”?<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="">Remember,
humans are interpreters of observed changes in a
controlled environment (our experimental data).<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b
class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;
line-height: 16.959999084472656px;" class="">We
are not the observers.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><span
class="">Human interpretations can vary widely for
the same observed effect. That is why we get stuck
on interpretations that appear to be reasonable
during the cultural period they were made.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="">I am
clearly of the opinion that we must re-evaluate and
re-interpret all the fundamental postulates of all
the theories and all the interpretations. Only this
way can we move forward; rather than piling up new
rationalizations over older interpretations made
based upon earlier insufficient information.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="">Chandra.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose"
class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
class=""> </span></a></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Albrecht
Giese<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
February 10, 2016 9:38 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Al,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">You say “DeB's
formuals give results in accord with empirical
observations “.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">I am very surprised
about this repeated statement. I think our past
discussion has shown that the concept of de Broglie
is completely wrong – except his statement that
there exist matter waves. He has postulated a wave
which in fact does not exist and which does not have
any foundation in physics. It has a wavelength which
– by his rule – disappears when an observer moves at
some medium speed.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">Electron scattering
does happen, I have shown in my paper that the
experimental results can be quantitatively explained
on the basis of standard physics. Indeed very funny
that also the concept of deB works in a special case
(but else not).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">Counter evidence?
Assume we can perform an experiment of electron
scattering (e.g. the one of Jönsson in 1957) in a
moving lab. And we observe it from our position at
rest. Then we will see that the results based on the
rules of deB are completely wrong. - It is of course
difficult to perform such experiment at high speed
and at the same time with high precision. But I have
shown that it is a simple calculation to predict
this (failing) result on the basis of deB's rules.
Should I explain it again? (It is in my paper).</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">Or alternatively we
have to give up the Symmetry of Space - believed
unrestrictedly since Newton. Give it up just to save
de Broglie? For no other use?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">E&M waves on the
other hand are fully consistent with the standard
rules for waves. No E&M wave will disappear just
because there is an observer moving at some medium
speed. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;
line-height: 15.546667098999023px; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 13.5pt; line-height:
19.079999923706055px;" class="">Ciao, Albrecht</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class=""> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="">Am 09.02.2016 um 20:46 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Hi Albrect:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">DeB's formuals give
results in accord with empirical
observations---your claim notwithstanding.
(BTW, what are you refering to as counter
evidence?) Thus, they are useful and in this
sense correct. The story he told himself
and used to derive his formulas is,
actually, immaterial insofar as he got a
useful conception and useful formulas.
Stories are a dime-a-dozen, you have some
that many consider as off-track as you
appear to consider DeB's. That matters only
as "philosphy" but not as techinical
physics. Anyway, I suspect that your deep
antiaffection for this "wrong" deB wave is
grounded on the notion that this wave is a
characteristic of the particle instead of
its interaction with the rest of the
universe as described by the SED background
(AKA: the 1/h h-bar x omega of the quantized
free E&M wave).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">The stories told by
conventional physicists to motivate QM are
of course just so much blather. Mostly also
inconsistent too---a capital crime for those
bragging about their rational thinking!
And, obviously, that is the push behind my
efforts leading to #7 on<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a></a>! <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">In any case, your
fixation with a fictitious wave should be
extended to all E&M waves. None of them
exist as they are described---there is no
media. Here DeB is much less the offender
than Bohr, Bell, Heisenberg, Von Neumann,
and whole flock of 2nd generation QM
enthusiasts. Still, QM works. To me that
means there is a coherent story to tell for
the math, we just have to find it.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">ciao, Al<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div name="quote" style="border-style: none none
none solid; border-left-color: rgb(195, 217,
229); border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt; margin: 7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> Dienstag,
09. Februar 2016 um 19:18 Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re: [General]
De Broglie Wave<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div name="quoted-content" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
the choice of de Broglie is not
suboptimal, it is clearly wrong. Badly
wrong. The wave he has introduced does
not exist, and if it would exist its
behaviour would cause a physical
behaviour which is in conflict with
measurements (if those are
comprehensively done).<br class="">
<br class="">
I agree with you that the main object
now is to move forward. But we will
not move successfully forward if we
carry millstones with us. De Broglie's
wave is a millstone. I just had a look
into a new textbook about QM, which
was highly recommended by our
university. It makes full use of de
Broglie's relation between momentum
and wavelength, so this is
unfortunately not just history.<br
class="">
<br class="">
But looking into the history: Bohr,
Sommerfeld and others have used the
result of de Broglie to explain
quantum numbers. Particularly the
quantisation of the angular momentum
on atomic shells is explained by
"standing waves" where the wavelength
is the one defined by dB. This
obviously hides the true reason of
this quantisation, but as anyone
believes that the Ansatz using de
Broglie is right, nobody is looking
for the correct cause. - This is one
of the reasons for our sticking
physics.<br class="">
<br class="">
Tschüss back<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Am
09.02.2016 um 14:57 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-msg://110/af.kracklauer@web.de"
target="_parent" style="color:
purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">As you
fully know, the very same idea
can be expressed in various
languages. This is true of
physics also. The very same
structure can be attached to
variuos words and images. I
do not defend deBroglie's
choice of words and images. I
too find his choice suboptimal
and somewhat contrdictory. So
what? He was playing his hand
at that time with the hand he
was delt at that time. Since
then, other ideas have been
found in the deck, as it were.
I find that, without changing
any of his math, one can tell
a story that is vastly less
etherial and mysterious and,
depending on the reader's
depth of analysis, less
self-contradictory. I think
my story is the one DeBrogle
would have told if he had been
inspired by some facits of
SED. And, some people have a
greater affinty and interest
in abstract structures, in
particular when their
mathematical redintion seems
to work, that for the stories
told for their explication.
This is particularly true of
all things QM. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Anyway,
the main object now (2016) is
to move forward, not critique
historical personalitites.
So, I'm trying to contribute
to this discussion by adding
what I know now, and what I
have found to be useful. We
are "doing" physics, not
history. Let's make new
errors, not just grind away on
the old ones!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">BTW, to
my info, both Dirac and
Schrödinger would agree that
deBroglie proposed some not
too cogent arguments regarding
the nature of QM-wave
functions. Still, the best
there at that time. All the
same, they too went to their
graves without having found a
satisfactory interpretation.
SED throws some new
ingredients into the mix. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Tschuss,
Al <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span style="font-size:
9pt; font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="border-style: none
none none solid;
border-left-color: rgb(195, 217,
229); border-left-width: 1.5pt;
padding: 0in 0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> Dienstag,
09. Februar 2016 um 13:41
Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:
purple; text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Hi
Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
I have the impression
that you have a solution
for particle scattering
which is in some way
related to the idea of
de Broglie. (I also have
of course a solution).
But was this the goal of
our discussion and of my
original contribution?
It was not! My objection
was de Broglie's
original idea as stated
in his thesis and as
taken over by
Schrödinger and Dirac.<br
class="">
<br class="">
You have a lot of
elements in your
argumentation which I do
not find in the thesis
of de Broglie. (There is
e.g. nothing at dB about
SED ore background.)<br
class="">
<br class="">
The essential point of
our discussion is the
meaning of his wave -
and his wavelength. I
think it is very obvious
from his thesis (which
you clearly know) that
his "fictitious wave"
accompanies a particle
like the electron<i
class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>all
of the time</i>. There
is no interaction
mentioned except that
there is an observer at
rest who measures the
frequency of the
particle. But without
influencing the
particle.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now it is normal
knowledge that a
frequency and as well a
wavelength appears
changed for an observer
who is in motion. This
is caused by the Doppler
effect. But the Doppler
effect will never cause
that a finite wavelength
changes to Infinite if
an observer moves at
some speed unequal to c.
But just that happens to
the wave invented by de
Broglie. It follows the
equation<br class="">
<br class="">
lambda = h/(m*v)
where v is the speed
difference between the
particle and the
observer (to say it this
time this way). And this
is in conflict to any
physics we know.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Am
08.02.2016 um 17:20
schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Your
challenge is
easy! In fact
my last responce
covered it.
The RELEVANT
velocity is the
relative
velocity between
the particle and
the slit; not
that between the
observer-particle
or
observer-slit.
An observer will
see all kinds of
distortions of
the events,
starting with
simple
persepctive due
to being at some
distance from
the slit and its
registration
screen. In
additon this
observer will
see those deB
waves affecting
the particle
(NOT from the
particle, nor
from the slit,
but from the
universal
background there
before either
the particle or
slit came into
being) as
perspectively-relativistically
distorted
(twin-clock type
distortion).
BUT, the
observer will
still see the
same over-all
background
because the
totality of
background
signals (not
just those to
which this
particle is
tuned), i.e.,
its spectral
energy density,
is itself
Lorentz
invariant. That
is, the
observer's
motion does not
enable it to
empirically
distinguish
between the
background in
the various
frames, nor does
the background
engender
friction forces.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">You
have got to get
your head around
the idea that
deB waves are
independant of
particles
whatever their
frame.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Schrördinger
did toy with
some aspects
that deBroglie
used, but never
did succeed in
rationalizing
his eq. in those
or any other
terms. For him,
when died, wave
functions were
ontologically
completely
mysterious.
From SED
proponents, I'm
told, my
thoughts in #7
on<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a></a>,
are unique in
formulating S's
eq. in terms of
deB concepts.
Try it, maybe
you'll like it.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">There
are other
SED-type stories
too, but as they
are based on
diffusion
(parabolic, not
hyperbolic)
precesses, I
find them self
contradictory.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">ciao,
Al<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt; padding:
0in 0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;" class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;" class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Montag,
08. Februar
2016 um 141
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
if you follow
de Broglie,
you should
have an
explanation
for the
following
experiment
(here again):<br
class="">
<br class="">
Electrons move
at 0.1 c
towards the
double slit.
Behind the
double slit
there is an
interference
pattern
generated,
which in the
frame of the
slit follows
the rule of de
Broglie. But
now there is
an observer
also moving at
0.1 c parallel
to the beam of
electrons. In
his frame the
electrons have
momentum=0 and
so
wavelength=infinite.
That means: No
interference
pattern. But
there is in
fact a pattern
which does not
disappear just
because there
is another
observer. And
the moving
observer will
see the
pattern. -
This is a
falsification
of de
Broglie's
rule. What
else?<br
class="">
<br class="">
The
understanding
that the de
Broglie wave
is a property
of the
particle (even
though
depending on
their speed,
but not on an
interaction)
was not my
idea but the
one of
Schrödinger
and Dirac and
many others.
Also by de
Broglie
himself.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Ciao Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
08.02.2016 um
03:30 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">BUT,
the laws of
Physics for
"being" in a
frame are not
the laws for
interacting
between
frames! The
deB. wave is
not a feature
of a particle
in its own
frame, but a
feature of the
interaction of
such a
particle with
at least one
other particle
in another
frame. When
the two frames
are moving
with respect
to each other,
then the
features of
the
interaction
cannot be
Lorentz
invariants.
When one
particle is
interacting
with another
particle (or
ensemble---slit
say) the
relevant
physics is
determined by
the deB wave
in that
sitation,
whatever it
looks like to
an observer in<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a
third frame
with yet
different
relative
velocities.
It is a
perspective
effect: a tree
is the same
ontological
size in fact
no matter how
small it
appears to
distant
observers.
Observed
diminished
size(s) cannot
be "invriant."
Appearances
=/= ,,so
sein''.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">You
have gotten
your head
stuck on the
idea that deB.
waves are<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>characteristics
intrinsic to
particles in
an of
themselves.
Recalibrate!
DeB waves are
charactteristics
of the mutual
interaction of
particles.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Best,
Al<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 22:10
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
at one of your
points I
really
disagree. The
physical laws
have to be
fulfilled in
every frame.
That means
that all
physical
processes have
to obey the
same laws in
all frames. So
also the
process at the
double slit.
But the rule
given by de
Broglie looks
correct in
only one
frame, that is
the frame
where the
double slit is
at rest. For
an observer in
motion the
diffraction
pattern looks
very similar
as for the
observer at
rest, but for
the observer
in motion the
results
according to
de Broglie are
completely
different,
because the
momentum of
the particle
is different
in a wide
range in the
frame of a
moving
observer and
so is the
wavelength
assigned to
the particle.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The specific
case: At
electron
scattering,
the observer
co-moving with
the electron
will see a
similar
pattern as the
observer at
rest, but de
Broglie says
that for this
observer there
does not exist
any pattern.
That is
strongly
incorrect.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The
Schrödinger
equation and
also the Dirac
function
should have
correct
results in
different
frames, at
least at
non-relativistic
speeds. This
requirement is
clearly
violated
through their
use of de
Broglie's
rule.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Grüße<br
class="">
Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
PS: Your
article refers
to "Stochastic
Electrodynamics".
That is in my
knowledge not
standard
physics and so
a new
assumption.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
07.02.2016 um
19:03 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">In my
view the story
in my paper
has no new
assunptions,
rather new
words for old
assumptions.
As I, along
with most
others, see<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>it,
there is no
conflict with
experiment,
but a less
than fully
transparent
explantion for
experimental
observations
(particle beam
diffrction)
otherwise
unexplained.
At the time
of writing,
and nowadays
too (although
I'd to think
that my paper
rationalizes
DeB's story)
it was the
most widely
accepted story
for this
phenomna. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">The
only entities
that logically
need to be
Lorentz
invariant are
the particle.
I the deB
wave is not a
'Bestandteil'
of the
particle, but
of its
relations with
its
envionment,
then
invariance is
not defined
nor useful.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">M.f.G.
Al<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 14:39
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
thank you for
your
reference.
Your paper has
a lot of
intelligent
thoughts but
also a lot of
additional
assumptions.
With reference
to the de
Broglie wave,
I think, is
the situation
much simpler
on the level
of
conservative
knowledge. De
Broglie has
misunderstood
relativity
(particularly
dilation) and
so seen a
conflict which
does in fact
not exist. He
has solved the
conflict by
inventing an
additional
"fictitious"
wave which has
no other
foundation in
physics, and
also his
"theorem of
harmonic
phases" which
as well is an
invention
without need.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And
his result is
in conflict
with the
experiment if
we ask for
Lorentz
invariance or
even for
Galilean
invariance. -
If we follow
the basic idea
of de Broglie
by, however,
avoiding his
logical error
about
relativity, we
come easily to
a description
of matter
waves without
logical
conflicts.
This does not
need new
philosophy or
other effort
at this level.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
06.02.2016 um
03:15 schrieb<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">DeBroglie's
verbage is
indeed quite
rococo!
Nonetheless,
his
machinations,
although
verbalized, in
the true
tradtion of
quantum
mechanics,
mysteriously,
can be
reinterpreted
(i.e.,
alternate
verbage found
without
changing any
of the math)
so as to tell
a fully, if
(somewhat)
hetrodoxical,
story. See
#11 on<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a></a>.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">cc:
Waves are
never a
characteristic
of a single,
point-like
entity, but
colletive
motion of a
medium. IF
they exist at
all. My view
is that
E&M waves
are a fiction
wrought by
Fourier
analysis. The
only real
physical part
is an
"interaction",
which mnight
as well be
thought of an
absract string
between
charges.
Also,
neutrons have<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>electric
multipole
moments; i.e.,
they are
totally
neutral but
not
charge-free. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
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Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Best,
Al <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
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class=""><span
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class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
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solid;
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229);
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1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
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class="">
<div
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class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 21:43
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>,<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> "Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
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sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
true, in the
frame of the
particle the
dB wavelength
is infinite.
Because in its
own frame the
momentum of
the particle
is 0. The
particle
oscillates
with the
frequency of
the particle's
Zitterbewegung<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(which
background
fields do you
have in mind?
De Brogie does
not mention
them). This
oscillation is
in no
contradiction
with this
wavelength as
the phase
speed is also
infinite. For
the
imagination,
the latter
means that all
points of that
wave oscillate
with the same
phase at any
point.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Which
background
waves do you
have in mind?
What is the
CNONOICAL
momentum? And
what about
E&M
interactions?
De Broglie has
not related
his wave to a
specific
field. An
E&M field
would anyway
have no effect
in the case of
neutron
scattering for
which the same
de Broglie
formalism is
used. And into
which frame do
you see the
wave
Lorentz-transformed?<br
class="">
<br class="">
So, an
electron in
his frame has
an infinite
wavelength and
in his frame
has the double
slit moving
towards the
particle. How
can an
interference
at the slits
occur? No
interference
can happen
under these
conditions.
But, as I have<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>explained
in the paper,
the normal
wave which
accompanies
the electron<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>by
normal rules
(i.e. phase
speed = c)
will have an
interference
with its own
reflection,
which has then
a wavelength
which fits to
the
expectation of
de Broglie.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But
that is a very
local event
(in a range of
approx. 10^-12
m for the
electron) and
it is not at
all a property
of the
electron as de
Broglie has
thought.<br
class="">
<br class="">
To say it
again: The de
Broglie
wavelength
cannot be a
steady
property of
the particle.
But
Schrödinger
and Dirac have
incorporated
it into their
QM equations<span
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<span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>with
this
understanding.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If I should
have
misunderstood
you, please
show the
mathematical
calculations
which you
mean.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Ciao, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
05.02.2016 um
19:20 schrieb<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi:
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Your
arguments
don't resonate
with me. The
deB' wave
length is
infinite in
the particles<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>frame:
it is the
standing wave
formed by the
inpinging
background
waves having a
freq. = the
particle's
Zitterbewegung.
If these TWO
waves are each
Lorentz
x-formed to
another frame
and added
there, they
exhibit
exactly the
DeB'
modulation
wavelength
proportional
to the
particle's
momentum. The
only
mysterious
feature then<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is
that the
proportionality
is to the
CNONICAL
momentum,
i.e.,
including the
vector
potential of
whatever
exterior
E&M
interactions
are in-coming.
Nevertheless,
everything
works our
without
contradiction.
A particle
oscillates in
place at its
Zitter freq.
while the
Zitter signals
are modulated
by the DeB'
wavelength as
they move
through slits,
say.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">ciao,
L<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
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sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 12:28
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a>,<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Richard and
Al, hi All,<br
class="">
<br class="">
recently we
had a
discussion
here about two
topics:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1. The
functionality
of the de
Broglie wave,
particularly
its wavelength<br
class="">
if seen from a
different
inertial
system. Such
cases lead to
illogical<br
class="">
situations.<br
class="">
2. The problem
of the
apparent
asymmetry at
relativistic
dilation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I have
investigated
these cases
and found that
they are in
some way<br
class="">
connected.
Relativistic
dilation is
not as simple
as it is
normally<br
class="">
taken. It
looks<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>asymmetric
if it is
incorrectly
treated. An
asymmetry<br
class="">
would falsify
Special
Relativity.
But it is in
fact
symmetrical if<br
class="">
properly
handled and
understood.<br
class="">
<br class="">
It is funny
that both
problems are
connected to
each other
through the<br
class="">
fact that de
Broglie
himself has
misinterpreted
dilation. From
this<br
class="">
incorrect
understanding
he did not
find another
way out than
to invent<br
class="">
his "theorem
of phase
harmony"; with
all logical
conflicts
resulting<br
class="">
from this
approach.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If relativity
is properly
understood,
the problem
seen by de
Broglie<br
class="">
does not
exist.
Equations
regarding
matter waves
can be derived
which<br
class="">
work properly,
i.e. conform
to the
experiments
but avoid the
logical<br
class="">
conflicts.<br
class="">
<br class="">
As announced,
I have
composed a
paper about
this. It can
be found at:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a></a><br
class="">
.<br class="">
<br class="">
I thank<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Richard
Gauthier for
the discussion
which we had<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>about
this<br
class="">
topic. It<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>caused
me to
investigate
the problem
and to find a
solution.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
---<br
class="">
Diese E-Mail
wurde von
Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<br
class="">
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text-decoration:
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class="">
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_______________________________________________<br class="">
If you no
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