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Hello Richard,<br>
<br>
the problem is indeed that the simple understanding of dilation is
that all temporal processes are slowed down in motion. That is true
for the internal oscillation of a particle as well as for the
internal speed of a clock. So there is no real difference between
both. But such slow down (as the extended lifetime of a muon) is
only one implication of dilation. The essential point is here that
this muon is observed at different positions, at first at the
position where it is generated and finally at the position where it
decays. There is another implication of dilation. That is the case
if something oscillating is coming towards an observer. This
observer will see an increased frequency even if the oscillator will
internally be slowed down. (This can for imagination also be
understood by the fact that the frequency is increased by the
Doppler effect at motion towards the observer; but that is not the
precise explanation).<br>
<br>
Both implications are contained in the temporal part of the Lorentz
transformation. I had mentioned this relation t' = gamma*
(t-vx/c^2) , where in one case the "v" in the second term is the
same "v" as in the gamma factor, in the other case v is zero. <br>
<br>
If this is taken into account then it is a fact that the oscillation
of a particle is increased towards the observer even in the
situation of internal dilation. This is the fact which Louis de
Broglie did not understand so that he unnecessarily introduced his
special wave.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 15.02.2016 um 00:34 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1A483C06-4E96-485E-A08C-D55A1E326400@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""> I tend to agree with you here. The internal
frequency of a moving electron as measured in a stationary frame
and characterized by hf=gamma mc^2) CANNOT both increase and
decrease with the electron speed. Therefore time dilation is
related to something other than the vibration rate of the
electron’s internal frequency, which always increases (not
decreases) with the energy of the moving electron. The internal
frequency of the electron (corresponding to the electron’s
energy gamma mc^2) does therefore NOT correspond to a clock
which shows relativistic time dilation as observed in a
stationary rest frame.</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 14, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Albrecht Giese <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hello
Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
I think that de Broglie's problem was not so much that he
did not have a more detailed model of an elementary
particle. De Broglie has described very clearly what his
problem was. It was the same question which you have asked
my after my talk in San Diego. It is the following
apparent conflict:<br class="">
<br class="">
As there is E = h * frequency = mc^2, (where m is the
dynamical mass), the frequency must increase by the factor
gamma in the case that this object is set to motion and so
its energy increases. On the other hand he concluded that
at motion the frequency has to be reduced by this factor
gamma because of relativistic dilation. - This latter
conclusion was his error. For an observer at rest,
dilation does not mean a decrease, but an increase of the
frequency. Formally this is given by the time-related
Lorentz transformation: t' = gamma* (t-vx/c^2) . In the
case of an observer at rest, there is v=0, so t' = gamma*t
, and this is an increase in the speed of time and so an
increase in frequency. If this is understood and taken
into account, then de Broglie's motivation for his wave is
without a reason. And all the rest is covered by normal
physics.<br class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.02.2016 um 02:40
schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E16299FA-3A8F-4D69-A098-A957916E2D26@gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div class="">Hello Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I think you are on to a good line of
thinking here. De Broglie derived his wavelength Ldb =
h/(gamma mv) using incomplete knowledge of the
electron, i.e. without knowing what was the source of
the electron's fundamental frequency f in his
relationship E = hf = gamma mc^2 . He assumed that
every particle with mass m has a fundamental frequency
f which is proportional to its energy E=hf= gamma
mc^2, and which increases with the speed of a moving
particle. At the end of his thesis de Broglie admitted
that his derivation was only formal and lacked a
knowledge of the physical source of this frequency.
E=hf is Einstein's relationship for the energy to
frequency of a PHOTON, as de Broglie knew. But de
Broglie missed the idea that this frequency f in an
electron is actually the frequency of an electrically
charged photon composing the electron. (He was
pursuing his idea that matter might have wave
properties just as light can have particle
properties.) (Of course, a charged photon will also
have wavelike properties!) </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As the frequency f of this charged photon
increases with electron speed through hf=gamma mc^2,
the charged photon's wavelength LAMBDA = h/(gamma mc)
decreases with the electron's speed (since c = f
LAMBDA is constant for the charged photon.) The de
Broglie wavelength is simply derived from the charged
photon’s LAMBDA and therefore is a real, measurable
wavelength in a particular reference frame (just like
a photon’s wavelength is a real, measurable wavelength
in a particular reference frame.) Schrodinger took the
de Broglie wavelength h/(gamma mv) into Schrodinger's
non-relativistic equation as h/mv = h/p , also without
recognizing that the electron is a circulating charged
photon. The quantum operator (-hbar^2)/2m
d^2(PSI)/dx^2 in Schrodinger’s equation pulls out the
electron’s (charged photon’s) non-relativistic kinetic
energy p^2/2m from the eigenfunction function PSI,
while the operator ihbar d(PSI)/dt pulls out the
electron’s (charged photon’s) non-relativistic total
energy from the eigenfunction PSI. For example, in the
ground state of the hydrogen atom, when the eigenvalue
energy for n=1 is E1= -13.6 eV, the total energy of
the bound electron (charged photon) is E=mc^2 - 13.6
eV .</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 10, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Albrecht
Giese <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><small style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Hi
Chandra,<br class="">
<br class="">
my concern is that de Broglie violated an
essential point of our physical understanding.
That is the equivalence of all frames. If this
would be violated, then we would have to find a
new set of physical laws as soon as we are in a
different frame. That means for instance, if we
have a lab on a ship, the physical results there
would be different from the physical laws on
land and we had to re-invent our complete
physical system there. Similar in any plane,
similar on the Moon. I am afraid that we would
have to give up doing physics if this would be
the case. So the independence of the frame,
which is philosophically the symmetry of space,
is an essential precondition to do physics as we
know it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
This fundamental rule is violated by de Broglie.
He has related the wavelength of his "fictitious
wave" to the momentum of the particle which is
guided by this wave. Now there is always a frame
in which the particle is at rest and so momentum
= zero. Consequently the wavelength is infinite.
But a wave with infinite length does not have
the properties which de Broglie needs to explain
the phenomena he is interested in. (And he only
saw the need to introduce such wave as he
misunderstood relativistic dilation.) And it is
also unnecessary in so far as electron
scattering (as an example) can be perfectly
explained with the normal understanding of
waves, as we have it for EM waves.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
The biggest impact which I see is the fact that
this relation between wavelength and momentum
was incorporated into the QM equations of
Schrödinger and of Dirac (and of others) to
describe the spatial part of that equation. That
can never be correct. Why is it not noticed? The
other relation used, the one of energy and
frequency (E = h * frequency) for the temporal
development, is correct, and most calculations
in QM are about energy. So the error seems
acceptable for the normal business. But that
does not change the fact that the rest is
incorrect (even though rewarded by the Nobel
Prize).<br class="">
<br class="">
I find it funny that there is such a big error
in the middle of QM since 90 years and nobody
becomes aware of it. If we want a development in
physics, we have at the first place to get rid
of errors which are so obvious.<br class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</small><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Am
10.02.2016 um 17:42 schrieb Roychoudhuri,
Chandra:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BY2PR05MB18961DDDB1854DC5899B01D093D70@BY2PR05MB1896.namprd05.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span class="">Hi Albrecht: You
are tackling a tough problem and the
mainstream would not show sympathy
because, for them, the prevailing
framework is “working”! Why rock the boat?<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span class="">I do not have
much to contribute. But, I would suggest
that you pay attention to the details of
measuring process (Interaction Process
Mapping Epistemology, or IPM-E). How do we
draw the conclusion that a body has
“inertia of motion”. We always need two or
more bodies to somehow interact and
display some changes (data). What is the
interaction mediating force (potential
gradient)? From what outcome do we draw
the conclusion that one or both the bodies
are displaying the property we have named
“inertia”?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span class="">Remember, humans
are interpreters of observed changes in a
controlled environment (our experimental
data).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b
class=""><i class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt; line-height:
16.959999084472656px;" class="">We are
not the observers.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><span
class="">Human interpretations can vary
widely for the same observed effect. That
is why we get stuck on interpretations
that appear to be reasonable during the
cultural period they were made.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span class="">I am clearly of
the opinion that we must re-evaluate and
re-interpret all the fundamental
postulates of all the theories and all the
interpretations. Only this way can we move
forward; rather than piling up new
rationalizations over older
interpretations made based upon earlier
insufficient information.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span class="">Chandra.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
class=""> </span></a></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in
0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Albrecht
Giese<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
February 10, 2016 9:38 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
12pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;">Hi Al,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">You say “DeB's formuals give
results in accord with empirical
observations “.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">I am very surprised about this
repeated statement. I think our past
discussion has shown that the concept of
de Broglie is completely wrong – except
his statement that there exist matter
waves. He has postulated a wave which in
fact does not exist and which does not
have any foundation in physics. It has a
wavelength which – by his rule –
disappears when an observer moves at some
medium speed.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">Electron scattering does happen,
I have shown in my paper that the
experimental results can be quantitatively
explained on the basis of standard
physics. Indeed very funny that also the
concept of deB works in a special case
(but else not).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">Counter evidence? Assume we can
perform an experiment of electron
scattering (e.g. the one of Jönsson in
1957) in a moving lab. And we observe it
from our position at rest. Then we will
see that the results based on the rules of
deB are completely wrong. - It is of
course difficult to perform such
experiment at high speed and at the same
time with high precision. But I have shown
that it is a simple calculation to predict
this (failing) result on the basis of
deB's rules. Should I explain it again?
(It is in my paper).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">Or alternatively we have to give
up the Symmetry of Space - believed
unrestrictedly since Newton. Give it up
just to save de Broglie? For no other use?</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">E&M waves on the other hand
are fully consistent with the standard
rules for waves. No E&M wave will
disappear just because there is an
observer moving at some medium speed. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
8pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
line-height: 19.079999923706055px;"
class="">Ciao, Albrecht</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="">Am 09.02.2016 um 20:46 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class="">Hi Albrect:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class="">DeB's formuals give
results in accord with empirical
observations---your claim
notwithstanding. (BTW, what are
you refering to as counter
evidence?) Thus, they are useful
and in this sense correct. The
story he told himself and used to
derive his formulas is, actually,
immaterial insofar as he got a
useful conception and useful
formulas. Stories are a
dime-a-dozen, you have some that
many consider as off-track as you
appear to consider DeB's. That
matters only as "philosphy" but
not as techinical physics.
Anyway, I suspect that your deep
antiaffection for this "wrong" deB
wave is grounded on the notion
that this wave is a characteristic
of the particle instead of its
interaction with the rest of the
universe as described by the SED
background (AKA: the 1/h h-bar x
omega of the quantized free
E&M wave).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class="">The stories told by
conventional physicists to
motivate QM are of course just so
much blather. Mostly also
inconsistent too---a capital crime
for those bragging about their
rational thinking! And,
obviously, that is the push behind
my efforts leading to #7 on<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a></a>! <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class="">In any case, your
fixation with a fictitious wave
should be extended to all E&M
waves. None of them exist as they
are described---there is no media.
Here DeB is much less the
offender than Bohr, Bell,
Heisenberg, Von Neumann, and whole
flock of 2nd generation QM
enthusiasts. Still, QM works. To
me that means there is a coherent
story to tell for the math, we
just have to find it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class="">ciao, Al<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div name="quote" style="border-style:
none none none solid;
border-left-color: rgb(195, 217,
229); border-left-width: 1.5pt;
padding: 0in 0in 0in 8pt; margin:
7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 7.5pt;
word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="margin-bottom: 7.5pt;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""> Dienstag,
09. Februar 2016 um 19:18 Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div name="quoted-content" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Hi Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
the choice of de Broglie is
not suboptimal, it is
clearly wrong. Badly wrong.
The wave he has introduced
does not exist, and if it
would exist its behaviour
would cause a physical
behaviour which is in
conflict with measurements
(if those are
comprehensively done).<br
class="">
<br class="">
I agree with you that the
main object now is to move
forward. But we will not
move successfully forward if
we carry millstones with us.
De Broglie's wave is a
millstone. I just had a look
into a new textbook about
QM, which was highly
recommended by our
university. It makes full
use of de Broglie's relation
between momentum and
wavelength, so this is
unfortunately not just
history.<br class="">
<br class="">
But looking into the
history: Bohr, Sommerfeld
and others have used the
result of de Broglie to
explain quantum numbers.
Particularly the
quantisation of the angular
momentum on atomic shells is
explained by "standing
waves" where the wavelength
is the one defined by dB.
This obviously hides the
true reason of this
quantisation, but as anyone
believes that the Ansatz
using de Broglie is right,
nobody is looking for the
correct cause. - This is one
of the reasons for our
sticking physics.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Tschüss back<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; line-height:
normal; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Am
09.02.2016 um 14:57
schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">As you
fully know, the very
same idea can be
expressed in various
languages. This is
true of physics
also. The very same
structure can be
attached to variuos
words and images. I
do not defend
deBroglie's choice
of words and images.
I too find his
choice suboptimal
and somewhat
contrdictory. So
what? He was
playing his hand at
that time with the
hand he was delt at
that time. Since
then, other ideas
have been found in
the deck, as it
were. I find that,
without changing any
of his math, one can
tell a story that is
vastly less etherial
and mysterious and,
depending on the
reader's depth of
analysis, less
self-contradictory.
I think my story is
the one DeBrogle
would have told if
he had been inspired
by some facits of
SED. And, some
people have a
greater affinty and
interest in abstract
structures, in
particular when
their mathematical
redintion seems to
work, that for the
stories told for
their explication.
This is
particularly true of
all things QM. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Anyway, the
main object now
(2016) is to move
forward, not
critique historical
personalitites. So,
I'm trying to
contribute to this
discussion by adding
what I know now, and
what I have found to
be useful. We are
"doing" physics, not
history. Let's make
new errors, not just
grind away on the
old ones!<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">BTW, to my
info, both Dirac and
Schrödinger would
agree that deBroglie
proposed some not
too cogent arguments
regarding the nature
of QM-wave
functions. Still,
the best there at
that time. All the
same, they too went
to their graves
without having found
a satisfactory
interpretation. SED
throws some new
ingredients into the
mix. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Tschuss,
Al <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217, 229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt; padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt; margin:
7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;" class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal; font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Dienstag,
09. Februar 2016
um 13:41 Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size: 11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I have the
impression
that you have
a solution for
particle
scattering
which is in
some way
related to the
idea of de
Broglie. (I
also have of
course a
solution). But
was this the
goal of our
discussion and
of my original
contribution?
It was not! My
objection was
de Broglie's
original idea
as stated in
his thesis and
as taken over
by Schrödinger
and Dirac.<br
class="">
<br class="">
You have a lot
of elements in
your
argumentation
which I do not
find in the
thesis of de
Broglie.
(There is e.g.
nothing at dB
about SED ore
background.)<br
class="">
<br class="">
The essential
point of our
discussion is
the meaning of
his wave - and
his
wavelength. I
think it is
very obvious
from his
thesis (which
you clearly
know) that his
"fictitious
wave"
accompanies a
particle like
the electron<i
class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>all of the time</i>. There is no
interaction
mentioned
except that
there is an
observer at
rest who
measures the
frequency of
the particle.
But without
influencing
the particle.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Now it is
normal
knowledge that
a frequency
and as well a
wavelength
appears
changed for an
observer who
is in motion.
This is caused
by the Doppler
effect. But
the Doppler
effect will
never cause
that a finite
wavelength
changes to
Infinite if an
observer moves
at some speed
unequal to c.
But just that
happens to the
wave invented
by de Broglie.
It follows the
equation<br
class="">
<br class="">
lambda =
h/(m*v)
where v is the
speed
difference
between the
particle and
the observer
(to say it
this time this
way). And this
is in conflict
to any physics
we know.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
08.02.2016 um
17:20 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Your
challenge is
easy! In fact
my last
responce
covered it.
The RELEVANT
velocity is
the relative
velocity
between the
particle and
the slit; not
that between
the
observer-particle
or
observer-slit.
An observer
will see all
kinds of
distortions of
the events,
starting with
simple
persepctive
due to being
at some
distance from
the slit and
its
registration
screen. In
additon this
observer will
see those deB
waves
affecting the
particle (NOT
from the
particle, nor
from the slit,
but from the
universal
background
there before
either the
particle or
slit came into
being) as
perspectively-relativistically
distorted
(twin-clock
type
distortion).
BUT, the
observer will
still see the
same over-all
background
because the
totality of
background
signals (not
just those to
which this
particle is
tuned), i.e.,
its spectral
energy
density, is
itself Lorentz
invariant.
That is, the
observer's
motion does
not enable it
to empirically
distinguish
between the
background in
the various
frames, nor
does the
background
engender
friction
forces.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">You
have got to
get your head
around the
idea that deB
waves are
independant of
particles
whatever their
frame.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Schrördinger
did toy with
some aspects
that deBroglie
used, but
never did
succeed in
rationalizing
his eq. in
those or any
other terms.
For him, when
died, wave
functions were
ontologically
completely
mysterious.
From SED
proponents,
I'm told, my
thoughts in #7
on<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a></a>,
are unique in
formulating
S's eq. in
terms of deB
concepts. Try
it, maybe
you'll like
it. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">There
are other
SED-type
stories too,
but as they
are based on
diffusion
(parabolic,
not
hyperbolic)
precesses, I
find them self
contradictory.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">ciao,
Al<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
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rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
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0in 0in 8pt;
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class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
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class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Montag,
08. Februar
2016 um 141
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
if you follow
de Broglie,
you should
have an
explanation
for the
following
experiment
(here again):<br
class="">
<br class="">
Electrons move
at 0.1 c
towards the
double slit.
Behind the
double slit
there is an
interference
pattern
generated,
which in the
frame of the
slit follows
the rule of de
Broglie. But
now there is
an observer
also moving at
0.1 c parallel
to the beam of
electrons. In
his frame the
electrons have
momentum=0 and
so
wavelength=infinite.
That means: No
interference
pattern. But
there is in
fact a pattern
which does not
disappear just
because there
is another
observer. And
the moving
observer will
see the
pattern. -
This is a
falsification
of de
Broglie's
rule. What
else?<br
class="">
<br class="">
The
understanding
that the de
Broglie wave
is a property
of the
particle (even
though
depending on
their speed,
but not on an
interaction)
was not my
idea but the
one of
Schrödinger
and Dirac and
many others.
Also by de
Broglie
himself.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Ciao Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
08.02.2016 um
03:30 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">BUT,
the laws of
Physics for
"being" in a
frame are not
the laws for
interacting
between
frames! The
deB. wave is
not a feature
of a particle
in its own
frame, but a
feature of the
interaction of
such a
particle with
at least one
other particle
in another
frame. When
the two frames
are moving
with respect
to each other,
then the
features of
the
interaction
cannot be
Lorentz
invariants.
When one
particle is
interacting
with another
particle (or
ensemble---slit
say) the
relevant
physics is
determined by
the deB wave
in that
sitation,
whatever it
looks like to
an observer in<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a
third frame
with yet
different
relative
velocities.
It is a
perspective
effect: a tree
is the same
ontological
size in fact
no matter how
small it
appears to
distant
observers.
Observed
diminished
size(s) cannot
be "invriant."
Appearances
=/= ,,so
sein''.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">You
have gotten
your head
stuck on the
idea that deB.
waves are<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>characteristics
intrinsic to
particles in
an of
themselves.
Recalibrate!
DeB waves are
charactteristics
of the mutual
interaction of
particles.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Best,
Al<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 22:10
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
at one of your
points I
really
disagree. The
physical laws
have to be
fulfilled in
every frame.
That means
that all
physical
processes have
to obey the
same laws in
all frames. So
also the
process at the
double slit.
But the rule
given by de
Broglie looks
correct in
only one
frame, that is
the frame
where the
double slit is
at rest. For
an observer in
motion the
diffraction
pattern looks
very similar
as for the
observer at
rest, but for
the observer
in motion the
results
according to
de Broglie are
completely
different,
because the
momentum of
the particle
is different
in a wide
range in the
frame of a
moving
observer and
so is the
wavelength
assigned to
the particle.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The specific
case: At
electron
scattering,
the observer
co-moving with
the electron
will see a
similar
pattern as the
observer at
rest, but de
Broglie says
that for this
observer there
does not exist
any pattern.
That is
strongly
incorrect.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The
Schrödinger
equation and
also the Dirac
function
should have
correct
results in
different
frames, at
least at
non-relativistic
speeds. This
requirement is
clearly
violated
through their
use of de
Broglie's
rule.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Grüße<br
class="">
Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
PS: Your
article refers
to "Stochastic
Electrodynamics".
That is in my
knowledge not
standard
physics and so
a new
assumption.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
07.02.2016 um
19:03 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">In my
view the story
in my paper
has no new
assunptions,
rather new
words for old
assumptions.
As I, along
with most
others, see<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>it,
there is no
conflict with
experiment,
but a less
than fully
transparent
explantion for
experimental
observations
(particle beam
diffrction)
otherwise
unexplained.
At the time
of writing,
and nowadays
too (although
I'd to think
that my paper
rationalizes
DeB's story)
it was the
most widely
accepted story
for this
phenomna. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">The
only entities
that logically
need to be
Lorentz
invariant are
the particle.
I the deB
wave is not a
'Bestandteil'
of the
particle, but
of its
relations with
its
envionment,
then
invariance is
not defined
nor useful.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">M.f.G.
Al<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
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rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Sonntag,
07. Februar
2016 um 14:39
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>,
"Richard
Gauthier"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
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11pt;
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Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
thank you for
your
reference.
Your paper has
a lot of
intelligent
thoughts but
also a lot of
additional
assumptions.
With reference
to the de
Broglie wave,
I think, is
the situation
much simpler
on the level
of
conservative
knowledge. De
Broglie has
misunderstood
relativity
(particularly
dilation) and
so seen a
conflict which
does in fact
not exist. He
has solved the
conflict by
inventing an
additional
"fictitious"
wave which has
no other
foundation in
physics, and
also his
"theorem of
harmonic
phases" which
as well is an
invention
without need.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And
his result is
in conflict
with the
experiment if
we ask for
Lorentz
invariance or
even for
Galilean
invariance. -
If we follow
the basic idea
of de Broglie
by, however,
avoiding his
logical error
about
relativity, we
come easily to
a description
of matter
waves without
logical
conflicts.
This does not
need new
philosophy or
other effort
at this level.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
06.02.2016 um
03:15 schrieb<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
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sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
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sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">DeBroglie's
verbage is
indeed quite
rococo!
Nonetheless,
his
machinations,
although
verbalized, in
the true
tradtion of
quantum
mechanics,
mysteriously,
can be
reinterpreted
(i.e.,
alternate
verbage found
without
changing any
of the math)
so as to tell
a fully, if
(somewhat)
hetrodoxical,
story. See
#11 on<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com/"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com">www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com</a></a>.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
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Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">cc:
Waves are
never a
characteristic
of a single,
point-like
entity, but
colletive
motion of a
medium. IF
they exist at
all. My view
is that
E&M waves
are a fiction
wrought by
Fourier
analysis. The
only real
physical part
is an
"interaction",
which mnight
as well be
thought of an
absract string
between
charges.
Also,
neutrons have<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>electric
multipole
moments; i.e.,
they are
totally
neutral but
not
charge-free. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
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Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Best,
Al <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
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normal;
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background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
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sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
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class="">
<div
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class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
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sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 21:43
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>,<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> "Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
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Calibri,
sans-serif;
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
true, in the
frame of the
particle the
dB wavelength
is infinite.
Because in its
own frame the
momentum of
the particle
is 0. The
particle
oscillates
with the
frequency of
the particle's
Zitterbewegung<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(which
background
fields do you
have in mind?
De Brogie does
not mention
them). This
oscillation is
in no
contradiction
with this
wavelength as
the phase
speed is also
infinite. For
the
imagination,
the latter
means that all
points of that
wave oscillate
with the same
phase at any
point.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Which
background
waves do you
have in mind?
What is the
CNONOICAL
momentum? And
what about
E&M
interactions?
De Broglie has
not related
his wave to a
specific
field. An
E&M field
would anyway
have no effect
in the case of
neutron
scattering for
which the same
de Broglie
formalism is
used. And into
which frame do
you see the
wave
Lorentz-transformed?<br
class="">
<br class="">
So, an
electron in
his frame has
an infinite
wavelength and
in his frame
has the double
slit moving
towards the
particle. How
can an
interference
at the slits
occur? No
interference
can happen
under these
conditions.
But, as I have<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>explained
in the paper,
the normal
wave which
accompanies
the electron<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>by
normal rules
(i.e. phase
speed = c)
will have an
interference
with its own
reflection,
which has then
a wavelength
which fits to
the
expectation of
de Broglie.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But
that is a very
local event
(in a range of
approx. 10^-12
m for the
electron) and
it is not at
all a property
of the
electron as de
Broglie has
thought.<br
class="">
<br class="">
To say it
again: The de
Broglie
wavelength
cannot be a
steady
property of
the particle.
But
Schrödinger
and Dirac have
incorporated
it into their
QM equations<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>with
this
understanding.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If I should
have
misunderstood
you, please
show the
mathematical
calculations
which you
mean.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Ciao, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Am
05.02.2016 um
19:20 schrieb<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi:
Albrecht:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
line-height:
normal;
font-size:
11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Your
arguments
don't resonate
with me. The
deB' wave
length is
infinite in
the particles<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>frame:
it is the
standing wave
formed by the
inpinging
background
waves having a
freq. = the
particle's
Zitterbewegung.
If these TWO
waves are each
Lorentz
x-formed to
another frame
and added
there, they
exhibit
exactly the
DeB'
modulation
wavelength
proportional
to the
particle's
momentum. The
only
mysterious
feature then<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is
that the
proportionality
is to the
CNONICAL
momentum,
i.e.,
including the
vector
potential of
whatever
exterior
E&M
interactions
are in-coming.
Nevertheless,
everything
works our
without
contradiction.
A particle
oscillates in
place at its
Zitter freq.
while the
Zitter signals
are modulated
by the DeB'
wavelength as
they move
through slits,
say.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
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normal;
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11pt;
font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">ciao,
L<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
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background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
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sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
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rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0in
0in 0in 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
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class="">
<div
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class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""> Freitag,
05. Februar
2016 um 12:28
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a>,<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] De
Broglie Wave<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
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normal;
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11pt;
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sans-serif;
background-color:
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hi
Richard and
Al, hi All,<br
class="">
<br class="">
recently we
had a
discussion
here about two
topics:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1. The
functionality
of the de
Broglie wave,
particularly
its wavelength<br
class="">
if seen from a
different
inertial
system. Such
cases lead to
illogical<br
class="">
situations.<br
class="">
2. The problem
of the
apparent
asymmetry at
relativistic
dilation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
I have
investigated
these cases
and found that
they are in
some way<br
class="">
connected.
Relativistic
dilation is
not as simple
as it is
normally<br
class="">
taken. It
looks<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>asymmetric
if it is
incorrectly
treated. An
asymmetry<br
class="">
would falsify
Special
Relativity.
But it is in
fact
symmetrical if<br
class="">
properly
handled and
understood.<br
class="">
<br class="">
It is funny
that both
problems are
connected to
each other
through the<br
class="">
fact that de
Broglie
himself has
misinterpreted
dilation. From
this<br
class="">
incorrect
understanding
he did not
find another
way out than
to invent<br
class="">
his "theorem
of phase
harmony"; with
all logical
conflicts
resulting<br
class="">
from this
approach.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If relativity
is properly
understood,
the problem
seen by de
Broglie<br
class="">
does not
exist.
Equations
regarding
matter waves
can be derived
which<br
class="">
work properly,
i.e. conform
to the
experiments
but avoid the
logical<br
class="">
conflicts.<br
class="">
<br class="">
As announced,
I have
composed a
paper about
this. It can
be found at:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength">https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength</a></a><br
class="">
.<br class="">
<br class="">
I thank<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Richard
Gauthier for
the discussion
which we had<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>about
this<br
class="">
topic. It<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
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