<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Dear Hodge & Dave,<br><br></div>You have confirmed my fears. Hodge takes the opposite position from me and Dave, while providing good information and references (of which I'll use one or more in another paper), hedged. However, he says "a photon can be emitted." So he agrees with me in that usage.<br><br></div>Since I am concerned about bound radiation and, thus, standing waves and interference, what words can I use to describe how that EM energy density changes during the transit thru an eccentric orbit? Fearn's 1st article gives some good words and usages. Not quite what I need; but, I won't ask for more information or belabor the point, since that is not what this thread is all about. However, I thank you both for the feedback.<br><br></div>Andrew<br><div>_________________________________________<br><br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 9:59 PM, Hodge John <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div>
</div><div>Andrew:</div>
<div>Very subtle.</div>
<div>I define “radiate” as releasing or have removed a part of
something. So photons radiate from hot material (classically).</div>
<div>I define “emit” as causing a change in something. So a boat
traveling on water emits waves but does not radiate waves. “Radiate” is a
subset of “emit”. The STOE model has a plenum that is infinitely divisible
(water is not). We have no instrument that measures anything about the plenum
directly. All measurements are of the effect the plenum has on hods (crudely
-matter - descrete things subject to being counted). There is at least 10^6
hods per photon. Scale is part of the question. Some use these terms in reverse
order or, worse, interchangeably (because the physics is lost or confused and
we have a flaw in logic called changing definition of terms during the argument
- very bad).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Much of the standard model terms derive form classical
analogies such as rotation (revolution about a center), spin (on an axis).
Digitations and quantization have been evoked to describe the energies measured
such as “space quantization”. I think there are much better analogies and
models than should be used. My recent paper starts down this path for
elementary particles. The start was really the photon and the diffraction
papers. The result of varying illumination across a slit predicted an
experimental observation that no other model to date can explain. Another
characteristic that had to be invoked was the idea the plenum had to have
inertia energy and the hod had gravitational energy. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I thought of 2 models of the electron in an atom, which I
haven’t explored to yield experiment consistency. One is that electrons are
held by photons (millions of hods in a column). An analogy would be spokes
holding a mass at a fixed distance from a hub. Moving from one energy level to
another requires a change (add or subtract material for the spoke) in the
length of photons (frequency, color, wavelength) of established (discrete
lengths). This is not a physical process of orbiting and no angular momentum is
involved although the math of the angular momentum energy change may be used.
There is no energy change without the spokes. Shooting spokes at the electron
will be absorbed only if the spoke is the correct length. Otherwise the matter
just flies off. The physics of angular momentum is an incorrect language/math
to describe the physics. Therefore, we can have electrons in an atom without
absorbing or emitting energy.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The analogy for the other thought is the “walking drop”
experiment. Two drops have been observed to revolve around each other because
each is in a minima of the others wave in the medium and the summation of the
waves has a slight slope toward the center of the drops. Here we get
discreteness in a continuous medium because of the minima of the waves being a discrete
distance apart (wavelength) - Like de Broglie suggests. This form of
discreteness in a continuous medium is why Fourier analysis works in quantum
mechanics. Hods (the only measured things) seek the minima or the waves in the
plenum. Note the walking drop medium is excited by external medium to be just
below the point where waves would form spontaneously. This is energy input. The
waking drop alternately puts potential energy into and takes motion (kinetic
energy) out. Potential energy - hod related such as gravitational energy.
Kinetic energy - plenum energy such as inertial energy. The plenum energy is
not measured except through the plenum’s action on hods. If the input photons
are not correct, the plenum response is not measured except through the increase
of temperature (the energy bath like the oil bath has an average energy
reflected in the heat [temperature] energy of the universe. The movement of the
electron around the nucleus may absorb and emit (plenum) equal energy without
“friction” (dampening). (at this scale there is no “friction”).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I was asking the “exhaustion” question to have other’s
answers to help develop my model. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hodge</div><div dir="ltr">
</div><div><br><br></div><div style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 11:15 AM, "<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>John</span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>Sorry, I forgot about the lod. </span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>Not sure about the radiation vs emission issue. Radiation usually suggests radiation reaction and radiation </span>resistance issues.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What is really puzzling is how a photon can be emitted without a radiation reaction as if conservation of momentum may not matter at the quantum level. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Here are some recent papers that discuss radiation reaction that may be of interest. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><dl><dt style="font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="font-weight:bold"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.4469" title="Abstract" target="_blank">arXiv:1212.4469</a> [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.4469" title="Download PDF" target="_blank">pdf</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/ps/1212.4469" title="Download PostScript" target="_blank">ps</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/format/1212.4469" title="Other formats" target="_blank">other</a>]</span></dt><dd style="padding-bottom:1em;font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div style="line-height:18.72px"><div style="font-size:large;font-weight:bold;margin:0.25em 0px 0px;line-height:21.6px">Radiation Reaction Force on a Particle</div><div style="font-size:16px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Fearn_H/0/1/0/all/0/1" target="_blank">H. Fearn</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Bengtsson_J/0/1/0/all/0/1" target="_blank">J. Bengtsson</a></div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Comments:</span> 13 pages, 0 figures</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Subjects:</span> <span style="font-weight:bold">Classical Physics (physics.class-ph)</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13px"><span style="font-weight:bold"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13px"></div></div></dd><dt style="font-size:14px"><span style="font-weight:bold"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1301.7051" title="Abstract" target="_blank">arXiv:1301.7051</a> [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1301.7051" title="Download PDF" target="_blank">pdf</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/ps/1301.7051" title="Download PostScript" target="_blank">ps</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/format/1301.7051" title="Other formats" target="_blank">other</a>]</span></dt><dd style="padding-bottom:1em;font-size:14px"><div style="line-height:18.72px"><div style="font-size:large;font-weight:bold;margin:0.25em 0px 0px;line-height:21.6px">On radiation reaction and the [x,p ] commutator for an accelerating charge</div><div style="font-size:16px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Fearn_H/0/1/0/all/0/1" target="_blank">H. Fearn</a></div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Comments:</span> 8 pages, 0 figures</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Subjects:</span> <span style="font-weight:bold">Quantum Physics (quant-ph)</span>; Mathematical Physics (math-ph)</div></div></dd></dl></div></div><div><dl><dt style="font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px">2. <span style="font-weight:bold"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1501.00970" title="Abstract" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">arXiv:1501.00970</a> [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.00970" title="Download PDF" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">pdf</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/ps/1501.00970" title="Download PostScript" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">ps</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/format/1501.00970" title="Other formats" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">other</a>]</span></dt><dd style="padding-bottom:1em;font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div style="line-height:18.72px"><div style="font-size:large;font-weight:bold;margin:0.25em 0px 0px;line-height:21.6px">A delayed choice quantum eraser explained by the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics</div><div style="font-size:16px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Fearn_H/0/1/0/all/0/1" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">H. Fearn</a></div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Comments:</span> 24 pages 4 figures, fifth draft</div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Subjects:</span> <span style="font-weight:bold">Quantum Physics (quant-ph)</span></div></div></dd><dt style="font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px">3. <span style="font-weight:bold"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.5426" title="Abstract" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">arXiv:1412.5426</a> [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1412.5426" title="Download PDF" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">pdf</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/ps/1412.5426" title="Download PostScript" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">ps</a>, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/format/1412.5426" title="Other formats" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">other</a>]</span></dt><dd style="padding-bottom:1em;font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div style="line-height:18.72px"><div style="font-size:large;font-weight:bold;margin:0.25em 0px 0px;line-height:21.6px">Mach's principle, Action at a Distance and Cosmology</div><div style="font-size:16px"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/find/gr-qc/1/au:+Fearn_H/0/1/0/all/0/1" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">H. Fearn</a></div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Comments:</span> The work is related to advanced waves and Cramer's transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics. The paper has been submitted to the Journal of Modern Physics (jmp) a special issue on "Gravitation, Astrophysics and Cosmology"</div><div style="font-size:13px"><span style="display:inline">Subjects:</span> <span style="font-weight:bold">General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc)</span></div></div></dd><dt style="font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></dt><dt style="font-family:"Lucida Grande",helvetica,arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></dt></dl><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="display:block"> <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"><span class=""> <font face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Hodge John <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>><br clear="none"> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 28, 2016 8:43 PM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Structure of electron<br clear="none"> </div><div><div class="h5"> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div>
</div><div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">David:</span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">“made
of” - your thinking in the standard model. Magnetism is the property of the
smallest particle - the hod. As I mention in the photon construction. In any
model, there must be a start. As I mention in the 1<sup>st</sup> paragraph of
the discussion - magnetism (2 poles N and S) rather than a positive of negative
charge is a property of the smallest particle. The charge then must be derived
from the magnetic field rather than the magnetic field of rotation charges. </span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Others
have suggested a circulating something. A circulating anything is inconsistent
with the variable illumination of the diffraction and interference experiment
(hodge2015a and 2015c). That is the photon must generate a diffraction wave
like a linear array of dipole antennas (the analogy). Circulating anything that
then goes to make a photon assembly becomes incredibly complex and unlikely.
The photon must have variable energy to make the different frequencies. That is
circulating quanta is inconsistent with the experiment.</span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">But
I see you suggest one model. So the challenge is to match the properties with
the experimental results such as in hodge2015c. I don’t see how to do it.</span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Rotating
anything must emit radiation. What keeps it from exhaustion?</span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span></span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Hodge</span></span></div><div dir="ltr">
</div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, March 28, 2016 2:18 PM, "<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></font></div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>John</span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><font size="3">Interesting work by explaining that only elementary particle theory is needed and not spacetime theories.</font></span></div><div><span><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></span></div><div style="line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">> The polarization of photons in a magnetic field suggests the photons are magnets.</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br clear="none">And what is the magnet made of? Are we talking of an oscillating monopole states or some sub-elementary (sub-sub-atomic) particle such as an energy, quanta or quantized spacetime?</font></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="3">If there is an quanta circulating within a photon, could it be that the quanta has both subliminal and superluminal velocities, and we can only see the subliminal. With twisted light, the paper suggest a c - 0.1% variation and the mere possibility that c + 0.1% variation might be enough to block direct observation of FTL. </font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="3">Just like the photonic electron models, could there be a quanta circulating within the photon in some topology such as a cylinder or washer configuration. After all, the parametric equations for a photonic electron can produce both topologies of ring and spindle torus. If one tunes the </font><span style="font-size:medium">variables in</span><span style="font-size:medium"> the parametric equation, cylinder and washer topologies can be obtained. In either case, the quanta would travel forward on the inner surface and return on the outer surface.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium">Obviously , the cylinder would support the magnet theory of the photon. However, so would a soliton wave with a washer topology. </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium">This leaves open the possibility that the sub-elementary particle may be a resonant circulating g magnetic monopole.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium">David</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:10px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><br clear="none"></div><div><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font size="3"><br clear="none"></font></div><div style="display:block"> <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,"Lucida Grande",sans-serif"> <div><div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"><font size="3"> </font></font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Hodge John <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>><br clear="none"> <b style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>> <br clear="none"> <b style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 25, 2016 9:52 PM<br clear="none"> <b style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [General] Structure of electron<br clear="none"> </div> <div style="font-size:16px"><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div>
</div><div>This may be of interest.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://www.academia.edu/23702413/Structure_and_spin_of_the_neutrino_electron_and_positron" target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/23702413/Structure_and_spin_of_the_neutrino_electron_and_positron</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span>Structure
and spin of the neutrino, electron, and positron</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>The
Scalar Theory of Everything (STOE) model of photons is extended to a model of
the structure of neutrinos, electrons and positrons. The polarization of
photons in a magnetic field suggests the photons are magnets. This observation
and the STOE model of the photon suggest the hods are magnetic. Using disc
magnets as an analogy of hods suggests the structure of elementary particles.
The relative abundance of elementary particles and anti--particles is dependent
on their relative probability of formation that depends on the difficulty of
forming their structure. The structure of the neutrino explains why its
velocity is the velocity of photons. The structure of large neutrinos suggests
how they can transform into electron neutrinos. The position of north seeking
magnetic poles relative to the direction of movement is qualitatively
consistent with the ``spin'' observation. The postulate of ``space
quantization'' is unnecessary. The structure models are consistent with several
observations of elementary particle behavior. </span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hodge</div><div dir="ltr">
</div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none"><a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none"></a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div></div></div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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