<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9392"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9520">Andrew and Albrecht,</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9393"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9393"><span>A few comments and references</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9393"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11266">1. In the "spinning ball of charge" description, Wilczek alludes to the </span>Arnowitt, Deser, and Misner (ADM) model from the 1960 where some of the first efforts in quantum gravity were prominent.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><br></div><h3 style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0.2rem; margin-bottom: 1rem; font-weight: 200; line-height: 1; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10408"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10426">Gravitational-Electromagnetic Coupling and the Classical Self-Energy Problem</font></h3><h5 style="margin-top: 0.2rem; margin-bottom: 15px; font-weight: 400; box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 1; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10300"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10630"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10363">Phys. Rev. </span><span style="box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: 700; line-height: inherit;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10364">120</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10365"> – Published 1 October 1960</span></font></h5><h5 style="margin-top: 0.2rem; margin-bottom: 15px; font-weight: 400; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-family: 'Proxima Nova', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10300"><a href="http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.120.313" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10064" class="enhancr2_01a7ee70-1dec-3660-a485-a18d49d02fed" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Gravitational-Electromagnetic Coupling and the Classical Self-Energy Problem</a></h5><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10579" dir="ltr"><a href="http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.120.321" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11030" class="enhancr2_73f2b26d-cf35-6593-37c6-c25f663d47da">Interior Schwarzschild Solutions and Interpretation of Source Terms</a><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11130"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11130">For completeness, the 1962 ADM reference is included.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11130" dir="ltr"><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0405109" class="enhancr2_022105a0-e018-d8f5-ba6b-a43d8fe2b6ee" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11151">[gr-qc/0405109] The Dynamics of General Relativity</a><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11159"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10086" dir="ltr"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM_formalism" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10634" class="enhancr2_d70f8e15-e9eb-484c-1e54-5aac69069fb6">ADM formalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10652"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357">
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9706">A couple of papers that may be of use to this discussion generated by Wilczek's article include</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9706" dir="ltr"><br></div><h5 style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0.2rem; margin-bottom: 15px; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-family: 'Proxima Nova', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: 400; line-height: 1; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11464"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11503">Phys. Rev. D <span style="box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: 700; line-height: inherit;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11465">77</span>, 104018 – Published 16 May 2008</font></h5><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9706" dir="ltr"><a href="http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.77.104018" class="enhancr2_1a083cce-d295-c908-4cce-6fc2192544b5" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11366">ADM canonical formalism for gravitating spinning objects</a><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11409"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9706"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9708"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9803"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9709">F. Rohrlich </span></font><a class="edited-link-editor" href="http://www.classe.cornell.edu/~pt267/files/teaching/P121W2006/ChargedSphereElectron.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_11695">The dynamics of a charged sphere and the electron</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9708">
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9862"><span style="font-family: Times;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9863"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9890">"The little known relativistic equations of motion of a surface-charged sphere are presented.
Their proof and validity limits are discussed."</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9862"><span style="font-family: Times;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9865"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9892"> </font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9486">2. Wilczek's vague reference to "elementary electromagnetism" at first seems to be Maxwell equations, and yet is suggestive of Quantum Field Theory. He appears to ignore gravitational coupling and in doing so avoid the issues of quantum gravity</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10020">3. The issue of the electric dipole results in speculations that might be classically explained by zitterbewegung with the 720 degree cycle. </span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span>Where did the electric dipole go?</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10893">A multipole solution might result in a cancellation of the electric dipoles within the electron and thereby supporting existing evidence. Quadrupoles might respond to experimental efforts in such a way as to redirect any dipole moment. </span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019">In any electron model for zbw the electric dipole flips every 1/2 cycle, and in doing so, results in a net dipole of near zero. One approach has been to use a circulating charged particle to topologically describe the observed geometry resulting in various toroid models (Williamson/van der Mark, Gautier, and others). <span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10019">A difficulty within the confines of an electron might be that spacetime is curved. Speculatively, if one considers at least within the electron a variable speed of light (VSL) theory, then there may be a subluminal dipole and a superluminal dipole. A minor issue is superluminal electrodynamics.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_10021"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9644">From A. Einstein 1951 autobiography</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9357"><span><br></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9213">
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9597"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9598"><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_12204" face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><i id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_12267">"Enough of this. Newton, forgive me; you found the only way which, in your age, was just about
possible for a man of highest thought- and creative power. The concepts, which you created, are
even today still guiding our thinking in physics, although we now know that they will have to be
replaced by others farther removed from the sphere of immediate experience, if we aim at a
profounder understanding of relationships." </i></font></span></div>
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</div><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9213"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9213">Best</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9213"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9213">David</div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9203" style="display: block;"> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9202"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9201"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9200"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9199"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9204"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9410"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9869"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9868">From:</span></b> Andrew Meulenberg <mules333@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>; Andrew Meulenberg <mules333@gmail.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, April 16, 2016 3:31 AM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9871"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9870">Subject:</span></b> [General] Wilczek's electron<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9266"><br><div id="yiv2401750816"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9268"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9267">Dear Albrecht,<br><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9269">You mentioned an article that seems to counter, rather than support, your model of the binary electron. You state: "On the other hand there was a kind
of indication for two constituents described by the article of
Frank Wilczek about the electron in Nature in summer 2013." (attached)."<br><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9411">Some statements from the article:<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9271"><br><div style="margin-left:40px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460823380142_9270">"The electron is effectively a spinning ball of charge, and elementary electromagnetism tells us that this generates<br>a magnetic dipole field." <br><br>"An electric dipole, should it exist, would generate broadly similar corrections. But no such field has been detected."<br><br>"So far there is only an upper bound for the electric dipole moment. This is an extraordinary 17 orders of magnitude smaller than one might expect — naively, given the electron’s effective size."<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);"> [.... estimated to be roughly 2.4 × 10^–12 metres]</span>. <br><br></div>Despite the lack of measured dipole, he states:<br></div><div><div style="margin-left:40px;">"So a non-zero electric dipole moment for electrons is a theoretical possibility."<br></div>This seems to be the only support for your model from that angle.<br><br></div><div>On the other hand, you are not expecting your twin particles to be attracted by electrostatic forces (you suggest something like strong nuclear forces). Therefore, an electric dipole would not be expected; some other form of dipole would be. But, if no electric dipole, what causes the EM fields?<br></div><div><br></div><div>While I find most of Wilczek's statements to be 'correct' and useful, I consider some to be just wrong. Nevertheless, it is a useful reference. It is not as authoritative as his “Origins of Mass,” arXiv:1206.7114v2 22 Aug 2012. However, it took me many hours of work to derive real benefit from this latter paper.<span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;"> But now I have a new 'tool'. <br><br>I did not find his "enigmatic electron" to be as useful. I have attached a preprint to a paper that I will submit this week that references both of Wilczek's papers. I hope that it will be published and might open the way for new thinking in the photon to lepton transition.<br><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;">Best regards,<br><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;line-height:115%;">Andrew<br></span></div><div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></body></html>