<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
color:black;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Albrecht<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Lorentz had worked all this out before Einstein’s SR. Lorentz based his observations and conclusions on the behavior of waves moving at a fixed velocity through a fixed medium.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Lorentz transformations are required if matter is made of the same light speed energy light is made of.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'>John Stuart Bell said this regarding relativity…, <i>“I would say that the cheapest resolution is something like going back to relativity as it was before Einstein, when people like Lorentz and PoincarŽe thought that there was an aether – a preferred frame of reference – but that our measuring instruments were distorted by motion in such a way that we could not detect motion through the aether. Now, in that way you can imagine that there is a preferred frame of reference, and in this preferred frame of reference (some) things do go faster than light.”,” Behind the apparent Lorentz invariance of the phenomena, there is a deeper level which is not Lorentz invariant, a pre-Einstein position of Lorentz and PoincarŽe, Larmor and Fitzgerald, was perfectly coherent, and is not inconsistent with relativity theory. The idea that there is an aether, and these Fitzgerald contractions and Larmor dilations occur, and that as a result the instruments do not detect motion through the aether – that is a perfectly coherent point of view.”</i><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>SR postulates that all inertial frames are completely and symmetrically relative. But there is no cause given for this basis, it is based solely on philosophy. The “relativity” that Chandra, Grahame, and I have been discussing does show a basis and cause. It is simply based on the inevitable results of matter being made of the same light-speed energy that light is made of.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Such an endeavor can be legitimately called a scientific pursuit. In contrast to SR. The facts of the requirements for transformations for rapidly moving bodies were well known before SR, and SR is not a requisite for those facts being valid. If we look at these issues from the causal basis mentioned, many of the perplexing or puzzling things about SR disappear.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So, while I would not have stated it in quite the same way, I must agree with Chandra that SR is not scientific, is not even physics.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Albrecht Giese<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] double photon cycle, subjective v objective realities<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Chandra,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>you say: "SR is not even Physics". Don't understand why.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If we keep a little distance to the more mystical foundations of Einstein ("space-time"), then relativity is easy and simple. SR comprises the following facts:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>1.) Oscillations slow down at motion<br>2.) Fields contract at motion</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Fact 1.) can easily be measured and easily be understood with regard to its cause. <br>Fact 2.) can also easily be understood with regard to its cause; the experimental proof is indirect but existent.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>All the rest is quite simple logic (like the constancy of the measured "c").</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>That's all, and what is your specific reason to deny it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Albrecht</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Am 05.07.2016 um 02:27 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Many thanks, Grahame, for the excellent complement on the philosophy of thinking, which I have been developing for over several decades. I am now in the process of applying that mode of thinking (Evolution Process Congruent Thinking) to political economy and the politics of money-driven elected governments, the model of the West, being imposed on the rest of the world.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I will read carefully your thinking on Relativity (SR). I think we are on the same page. SR is not even Physics. In contrast, QM has a lot of valuable physics (captured some realities) that will give us guidance to evolve forward towards a next higher level theory.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 04, 2016 7:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] double photon cycle, subjective v objective realities</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Hi Richard, Chip, Chandra (et al),</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>I have attached at Richard’s request a copy of the first 10 pages of my book (after index etc); this comprises the first section of my book, the Introduction. I believe you’ll see from this my philosophy and my objectives in undertaking my own line of scientific research. This is not to identify or define a suitable model for a photon-formed electron – though that is to a limited extent an inevitable by-product of my investigations – but rather to resolve what I have come to see, over some years, as inconsistencies, incompleteness or scope for further understanding in the generally-accepted model of physical reality. [Note that, whilst holding firmly to scientific principles, this book is intended to be comprehensible for the most part by non-specialists; this introduction should be read with that in mind.]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Chandra, I was most impressed (I might even say ‘excited’) by your paper presented last year at the SPIE conference, which you have just circulated (I found myself saying “yes!” out loud several times whilst reading it). I’d like to think that the contents of my book are in the spirit of the outward-looking ‘Perpetual Scout’ scientific approach that you advocate*; I have for some time been concerned by the attitude of science that appears to take the line: “We’ve got it all correct to date, now we just need to fill in the fine detail” (whilst happily accepting the unexplained ‘fact’ of Special Relativity and the unexplained apparent serendipity of Quantum Mechanics). I’m also very enthused by your view that we need to be thinking NOW about how we can ensure that we’re still around beyond our parent star’s main sequence; alignment with cosmic evolution, rather than trying to force our will on it, seems to be a patently obvious strategy.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>[* The concept of reverse engineering both physical reality and the evolutionary process is one that I believe has been central to my research.]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Richard, no matter how much I try I can't find any common ground between our respective understandings of the terms ‘subjective’ and ‘objective’ as applied to material reality. For me the term ‘subjective’ is crystal clear in its meaning: it relates to a situation, event or scenario as experienced by an individual or group (possibly a very large group) of individuals – including ‘experience by proxy’ through instrumentation. In this situation the sensors of this/those individual(s) – including possibly electromechanical sensors – mediate that experience and thereby provide input to (i.e. variation of) that experience over and above the actuality of the (objective) event or scenario being experienced.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>By contrast the term ‘objective’ refers to the object – the situation, event or scenario itself. With regard to that object it matters not one iota what people think – even a great number of highly intelligent people – it will not re-shape itself to conform to their thoughts. For example, everyone in the world could think that the earth was flat, it would make absolutely no difference to the shape of our planet – but it <b>would</b> make a great deal of difference with respect to their effectiveness in navigating from one place to another!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>If a mathematician proposed that one plus one was equal to two, would you dismiss that as just a personal philosophy of mathematics? I’m not in any way suggesting that my view of reality is the right one, or the only possible one – but I <b>am</b> absolutely adamant that if we regard subjective impressions as convertible to objective truth just by sheer weight of numbers then the future of science is doomed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>That’s a major reason why I don’t participate in discussing the pros and cons of various models of the electron, as you say you’d wish me to – it’s not actually possible for me to separate ‘my philosophy’, as you call it, from my perception of what constitutes a better or less good model. You’ve proposed (below) that I “point out any defects or limitations in different models” – surely that’s what I’ve tried to do, totally consistently, in a logical way that hopefully doesn’t give offence? But it seems that’s what you object to, since you regard my approach as simply my [personal] philosophy of science and therefore (presumably) not acceptable as a valid contribution to this discussion.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>I’ll continue to participate in this debate, in the only way that makes sense to me (and hopefully makes some sense to some others). If that doesn’t work for you, fine, give it a miss – but I’m afraid I can’t set aside what I see as facts just to join in a conversation on any model that, for what seem to me to be very good reasons, I can’t believe in.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" title="richgauthier@gmail.com">Richard Gauthier</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> Sunday, July 03, 2016 3:01 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> Re: [General] double photon cycle, subjective v objective realities</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hello Grahame,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> You seem unwilling to present the first few pages of your book to help give us more background and context to your particle model and approach. So I think I’ll pass for now on commenting on your distinction between subjective and objective realities, which is more of a statement of your philosophy of science, and how to know what is “real” in physics. Physicists try to interpret, understand and predict aspects of the physical world, based on ideas, concepts, mathematics, models and objective physical measurements and observations. I think we are all engaged in this in one way or another, despite any differences in our philosophies about the nature of reality.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I think your model of the electron and other particles should be separable from your particular philosophy of science, so that others who may not share your philosophy of science, as well as those who do, may be able to decide if your model is useful or better than other physical models, for “doing physics”. One way is to look at the models themselves quantitatively and to compare and contrast one model with other models to see how well these models (all relating to photons and particles in our discussion group) stand up to critical scrutiny as well as to experimental support. I think that’s partly what this discussion group is about. I hope you are willing to join in this effort, to point out any defects or limitations in different models, to encourage improvement of weaker models, and to acknowledge any strengths in these or other models, since none of them is perfect.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre><pre></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Virenfrei. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>