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<p>I fully agree however tend to take the hopeful view that if
science comes up with a better mouse trap the political forces
will follow</p>
<p>I think science needs to step up to that challenge, right now
after a century of quantum theory we have a mess rather than
clearity.</p>
<p>best</p>
<p>wolf<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/21/2016 2:21 PM, Hodge John wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56599882.644673.1471814516690@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2596">Wolf</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2623">"Who can argue
with learning and following nature's rules..."<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2624">
Appearently, the majority of people in the US and EU. Notice
that the people wanting to limit (much less eliminate) support
for the poor, sick, infirm, etc. are consistently voted out of
office. the same happened in Greece a few years ago. The
socialists won and Greece still suffers.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2625">The Malthus
catastrophy can be averted by many other methods. I noted the
polenisian islander method. Another is to abandon
humaniterianism as a moral model. The growth of the US paper
suggests that the states compete to find the optimal social
organization for humanity rather than the federal government
regulating failed programs.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2626">The baby boomer
generation's children and grandchildren with their
humanitarianism ideals may ( I think will) cause collapse
before any deregulation takes place.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2627">I think that
science can avert much of the loomng catastrophy if it is
allowed to do so. However, <br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2628">
the emphasis in science is to inhibit truely new models. Look
at how new QM ideas are suppressed (not published and
rejected). Not even experimental data rejecting current status
quo will be accepted. I was told before "Your experiment is
contradiced by the standard model, therefore it is wrong.)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2629">
Well, NOL and some few others may help change this but as we
experience in NOL it is not working.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2630">How can we get a
magizine with the criteria for publication of quality of the
writing, quality of the arguement, self--coherence, validity
of the experiment/obervation, etc. Rather the adherence to
standard models. Getting new paradym isn't the problem - NOL
has suggested many. The problem is in having the model
examined by the community which requires fertile ground for at
least examining and publication. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2631">This may seem a
weirdtopic for NOL. But it is a fundamental problem for the
reason that NOL exists. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2632">Hodge</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471814456816_2633" dir="ltr"><span></span><br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;">
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16px;">
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16px;">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday,
August 21, 2016 3:26 PM, Wolfgang Baer
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a> wrote:<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv8460656376">
<div>
<div>John:</div>
<div>Who can argue with learning and following
nature's rules , however two thoughts</div>
<div>1) the Malthus catastrophe has always been
averted by technology breakthrough which improved
our ecological nitch</div>
<div> I see no reason we need to be stuck in the
current paradigm , but I believe we need to
examine the foundations of our physics,
philosophy, and world view package we have been
saddled with during the 20'th century. Quantum
theory may have helped build some systems, but it
is not comprehensible without major ad hoc
miracles attached. We need a new way of looking at
things. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div>2) Is it possible that our current defeatist
attitude regarding technology is due to the aging
process. WE now have baby boomers retiring and
they just want a steady as she goes peaceful last
years with no challenges. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Perhaps we need to wait tll the baby boomer
generation has passed?</div>
<div>best</div>
<div>Wolf<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<pre class="yiv8460656376moz-signature">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="yiv8460656376moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="yiv8460656376yqt5084760775"
id="yiv8460656376yqt69530">
<div class="yiv8460656376moz-cite-prefix">On
8/21/2016 11:46 AM, Hodge John wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida
Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2434">
Grahame:<br
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2435"
clear="none">
I echo your concern for humanity's future. I
suggest Nature (or natural laws) has
controlled the overpopulation problems of
species and humanity. All we really need to
do is determine nature's rules and follow
them. Unfortunately society is currently
deviating from nature's rules. The result
has historically been catastrophic for
humanity as noted by Malthus's catastrophe.
Our self-control can avert such a
catastrophe. Note the Chinese attempt was
contrary to Nature's rules. The Chinese
slowed the birth of healthy children and
supported the growth of sick and infirm
children.</div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2436"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2437">A
child born with a severe disability is a
sink for resources that may be better spent
on advancing humanity (healthy children).
Ancient societies lacking technology let the
disabled die. The Polynesians on their
island had a socially accepted way to commit
suicide so the island resources would not be
over-taxed. I society doesn't accept
nature's laws; Nature will kill that society
(the weak certainly and many of the strong).
Thus the current ongoing collapse of the US
(and western society) will continue. Many of
the characteristics of collapse of modern
society have been present for several
decades [pp. 209-216] Tainter,~J.~A., 1990.
``The Collapse of Complex Societies''. </div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2438"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2439">On
a larger scale, humanitarianism harms
society by other causes of failure.
Humanitarianism induces a strong trend
toward conformity (being Politically
Correct). This is a need to maintain the
status quo and to reject advances in
science. Historically, societies that stop
scientific advance loose wars to societies
that bring scientific advances. </div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2440"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2441"><A
HREF=<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="yiv8460656376moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1093"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect">"http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1093"</a>>Growth
challenge of the United States</A></div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2442"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2443"><br
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2444" clear="none">
This is a criteria and method/rules for
developing advances in science:<br
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2445"
clear="none">
<A HREF=<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="yiv8460656376moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1757"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect">"http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1757"</a>>STOE
emergence</A></div>
<div
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2446"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Hodge<br
id="yiv8460656376yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471805006616_2448"
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
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class="yiv8460656376mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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