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<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Hi Grahame,</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">I am sorry
that I did not know your paper about gravity and so did not
refer to it. I shall read it.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Regarding
exchange particles </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" size="-1">I do not find this model or assumption so
complicated. And please note that exchange particles are
different from virtual particles. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">I have the
following picture of exchange particles and I think that the
understanding of Main Stream is not so different. An elementary
charge sends out a continuous stream of such exchange particles
which are mass-less and move with c. For a mono charge the
density of this stream is independent of the direction. The
density, however, decreases with increasing distance from the
charge with 1/r^2. That is simply caused by geometry. They move
with c and the move is permanent, so until infinity. If one
exchange particle hits another charge of the same kind, then it
is absorbed and a certain amount of momentum is transferred to
the other charge. This momentum is either attracting, i.e.
towards the direction of the incoming x-particle, or repelling,
i.e. opposite. That depends on the sign of the two charges, the
charge which has emitted the x-particle and the particle which
absorbs the x-particle. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">One point
where my picture is different from Main Stream is that the
exchange particles have to carry the information of the sign of
the sending charge. For an electric charge this should mean that
there are two kinds of photons, if photons are assumed to be the
exchange particles of the electric charge. So in my
understanding this "photon" is of a different type than the
photon which is normally assumed to transport EM-energy. -
Always when I meet theoretical physicists I ask them this
question how a photon as an exchange particle can transport the
information of the sign. Up to now I never received a satisfying
answer. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">One
complication which I see is the housekeeping of energy. Every
exchange particle which flies off has the ability to perform
work if it meets another charge. Most will never meet a charge
so this ability is not used. But if it meets then the energy
balance is correct. And the other x-particles? They transport
the ability to transfer energy, but the energy housekeeping in
its summary obviously is not violated. Conclusion? I think that
the exchange particles violate the conservation of energy. One
may ask: why not? I do not see any argument for the conviction
that energy is always conserved, even on the smallest scales.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Best regards<br>
Albrecht</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" size="-1">Am 30.08.2016 um 23:16 schrieb Dr Grahame
Blackwell:</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:0560A73143884DA195C3CD27BAD767D3@vincent"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Hi Albrecht,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">I agree that
force interactions can be modelled AS IF they are mediated by
particles of certain types - that much is not an issue to me.
But to propose that this is ACTUALLY the case (rather than
just a simple analogy or model) for me simply leads to a host
of questions - far more than this one 'solution' to
action-at-a-distance that gauge bosons purport to provide.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Let's take the
case of electrostatic interaction: this is unlimited in its
range - so presumably the cloud of virtual photons that
mediate this force extends out without limit from the charged
particle whose effect they carry? Also they must be present
wherever that charge effect may have an influence - which
means that they must completely envelop that charged particle
in spherical shells at every radius from that particle to
infinity? In other words, the totality of the universe plays
host, in every cubic attometer of its entirety, to virtual
photons for EACH and EVERY elementary charged particle in the
cosmos. The housekeeping requirements for such an arrangement
are beyond belief: what is the mechanism that links each
particle to its attendant virtual photons, way out to the
limits of the universe? How are the VPs of one material
particle distinguished from those of another? And that's
before we even start considering the strength (frequency?) of
those VPs in relation to distance from their 'parent' particle
and how they communicate their behaviour, let alone the
bizarre notion of 'negative photons' that can attract other
charged particles rather than repel them. Come back
phlogiston, your mysteries are as nothing compared to virtual
photons!</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Actually my own
proposal for the basis of 'electrostatic charge' effects isn't
a million miles removed from this notion. However it
recognises that 'action at a distance' isn't actually 'at a
distance' at all, since the actual form of an
electromagnetically-formed 'particle' will itself extend
without limit, as is the nature of electromagnetic effects
(notably electromagnetic potential). We then also have to
recognise that our perception of material particles (including
our own bodies!) is seriously limited by our own senses, which
rely on certain forms of interaction that give the illusion of
'localisation'. This leads on to the observation that space
itself IS suffused with the extended electromagnetic 'being'
of those 'localised' material particles, giving all of space
an electromagnetic 'texture' that gives the effects known as
'electrostatic attraction/repulsion' and 'gravitation' (also
an effect that may be MODELLED as 'curvature of space', since
it defines paths through space for all entities, including
light).</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">That takes me to
another point in your email (below): it's not quite 100%
correct to say that "<font face="Helvetica" color="#000000">all
explanations about gravity which do not use Einstein's funny
distorted space-time rely on exchange particles</font>"; my
own explanation, published in a mainstream peer-reviewed
journal five years ago (and attached to two of my previous
emails, so I won't do so again here), most definitely does NOT
use Einstein's proposed space-time, neither does it rely to
any extent whatsoever on exchange particles. So maybe I have
a first in that respect, at least?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Best regards,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Grahame</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">++++++++++++</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="genmail@a-giese.de" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">Albrecht
Giese</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists..natureoflightandparticles.org</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 30,
2016 4:58 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
Gravity</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Dear
Chandra and dear Grahame,</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">firstly,
thank you, Chandra, for your feedback to my contribution. I
generally agree that there is a hierarchy of physical
quantities. But for your example of Einstein's m=E/c^2 </font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1"> I am not so
sure. Is E more fundamental than m? True, m is not a
fundamental quantity on the lowest level. It describes the
force which is needed to accelerate an object. So, the
quantity force should be more fundamental. But what about E?
In my understanding it is a human concept which was brought
up, when physicists detected one day that in a closed system
the quantity F*way is conserved. So it received the name
"energy". Is this energy always conserved? I think that in
some reactions of particle physics it is not. And that is
not only in the context of Heisenberg's uncertainty
relation. It is also violated by exchange particles.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">So, what
is about exchange particles which mediate a force or a
charge? You both seem not to like it. But it has advantages.
The general law of distance of forces: 1/r^2 (e.g. the
Coulomb law) can easily be deduced by it if using the
continuity relation and geometrical broadening. In this
context it is just simple geometry. In addition the
relativistic contraction (of fields) is easily
understandable if exchange particles are assumed. And
further, all explanations about gravity which do not use
Einstein's funny distorted space-time rely on exchange
particles.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Another
point in the discussion is the question of how photons can
be understood. It is said (at different places of the
foregoing discussion) that matter (i.e. leptons and quarks)
can be converted into pure energy, which means photons in
this context. Why is it denied that a photon is a particle?
It has all properties of a particle which the speciality
that it permanently moves with c. And with this latter
property it is very close to a neutrino for which nobody
questions that it is a particle. And a photon has a well
defined energy. This fact was indeed questioned by some
contributions in this forum. To those who are questioning it
I would like to explain the following: <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">My PhD
thesis was about an experiment in which photons were
scattered. The source of the photon beam delivered photons
with well defined energy (it was a spectrum with a strong
limit of an upper energy). The photons were, after the
scattering, detected by pair production which took place
when the photon passed a thin sheet of metal. From the
energy and direction of the electron-positron pair the
energy and the direction of the photon was determined. The
resulting energy of the scattered photon was in agreement
with the energy of the incoming photon. So the energy of the
individual photon was precisely measured and so well
defined. I do not see any argument for the position that a
photon is not an individual but just a beam with properties
which can only be statistically assumed. The photon energy
measured was clearly not defined by some property of the
detector what was sometimes suspected in the discussion
here.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-1">Sincerely<br>
Albrecht</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 28.08.2016 um 00:51 schrieb Dr
Grahame Blackwell:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:62BC50A6EC8B47C18093161B2F273FC5@vincent"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Roy (et al)</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Thanks for
this. I believe I'm in full agreement with all you've
said (as long as I've understood it correctly); my only
slight difference in view is, I believe, a matter of
semantics rather than science.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Like you, I
don't accept the concept of 'force-carrying particles';
this concept appears to raise far more questions than it
answers (if it answers any) - it certainly doesn't in any
way offer significantly greater insight than the 'action
at a distance' proposed by Newton. [Not to put too fine a
point on it, I find it an insult to the intelligence as it
appears to expect a whole raft of counter-intuitive
notions to be taken on trust.] I agree 100% with your
definition of rest-mass, also the additional 'oscillatory
energy' that relates to motion, induced by some form of
'force gradient' that is itself an extended consequence
(part of the structure) of 'material particles' and moves
concomitantly with them. In this respect such 'force
effects' are not in some way communicated at light-speed
or faster, they are an integral part of the particle
producing that effect: if a complete unified singular
object moves as a whole, we don't propose that one part of
the object 'communicates its motion' to another part (at
FTL speed) so that it too moves - it just IS a unified
moving body. No threat to causality there. The fact that
our limited senses don't perceive the whole of that
extended entity doesn't mean that it can't exist - its
very action proves that it does, in accordance with our
understanding of EM effects.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">My difference
in view relates to your observation that particles "are
not made of photons"; as I say, I believe this is a matter
of semantics - essentialy how one defines a photon. We
agree that they are formed from light-like oscillations of
the universal field - i.e. TEM wave packets. If one
defines a photon simply as a TEM wave packet
then particles are formed from photons; if however we add
the stipulation that a photon radiates rectilinearly from
its dipole oscillatory source, then by definition that
wave packet forming a particle cannot be a photon. The
fact that elementary particles are (or at least can be)
initially created from photons is, I believe, established
by Landau & Lifshits (1934) and demonstrated by the
SLAC multiphoton Breit-Wheeler experiment of 1997.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">I'm
interested in your observation that the 'force gradient'
of a particle will be distorted by a state of motion; I
agree that this must be true, since the configuration of
its formative field will be somewhat different. As you
say, it would be interesting if it were possible to
construct an experiment to demonstrate this - I suspect
one would first have to persuade the experimenters that SR
is primarily a subjective effect, so that they don't apply
'SR logic' as an objective truth to their readings!</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Best regards,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#000080" size="2">Grahame</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Roychoudhuri, Chandra</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August
27, 2016 12:24 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
Gravity</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">Chip, Albrecht, and
the rest of the team:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Chip:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">After
reading the article by Flandern, sent by Chip, I dug
out a possible later publication by Flandern. The link
is given below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">……………………………..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><a
title="Foundations of Physics"
href="http://link.springer.com/journal/10701"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="COLOR: #8e2555">Foundations
of Physics</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">July
2002, Volume 32, <a title="Issue 7"
href="http://link.springer.com/journal/10701/32/7/page/1"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="COLOR: #8e2555">Issue 7</span></a>, pp
1031–1068<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 9.35pt; BACKGROUND: #fcfcfc;
MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt:
9.35pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: #333333; FONT-SIZE:
9pt" lang="EN">“Experimental Repeal of the Speed Limit
for Gravitational, Electrodynamic, and Quantum Field
Interactions” by </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; LETTER-SPACING: 0.2pt; COLOR:
#333333; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><a title="View author's
information"
href="http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A%3A1016530625645#author-details-1"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="COLOR: #8e2555;
TEXT-DECORATION: none">Tom Van Flandern</span></a>, <a
title="View author's information"
href="http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A%3A1016530625645#author-details-2"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="COLOR: #8e2555;
TEXT-DECORATION: none">Jean-Pierre Vigier</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">…………………………………………..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">The beginning caveat
– I am not a theorist and am not conversant with the
GR math. My knowledge of GR is mostly from review
articles without math. Now, after reading Flandern,
Now I believe, like that for SR, GR does also have
rather serious foundational problems. And our
understanding of momentum of a moving object needs to
explored deeper in light of the fact that mass in not
some immutable “substance”. It is the perturbation
energy that creates the resonant self-looped
oscillation of the cosmic Complex Tension Field (CTF);
the rest mass being the original oscillation-inducing
energy. Spatial (definitely not space-time) velocity,
induced by some “force gradient” adds further energy
to a particle in the form of “kinetic oscillations”.
We need to carefully analyze how we measure and
interpret “momentum” since mass is not an immutable
intrinsic property. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">Even with my limited
experimental expertise, I have always intuitively
believed that forces are not mediated by various force
particles. Thus, I clearly disagree with Flandern and
Vigier. I have said that in many of my publications,
including my book.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">Based upon the
various intrinsic physical tension properties of the
CTF, the self-looped oscillations in the CTF generate
various kinds of decaying potential gradients of the
CTF properties around the oscillating “particle”.
These gradients are not exactly like the physical
curvature in a stretched membrane (prevailing GR
analogy). Then the “particles” in the vicinity of each
other will move towards or away from each other
depending upon the sign of the potential gradients.
all into or are repulsed by this gradient. Hence<b><i>,
these force gradients are mobile with the
particles and would suffer spatial distortion at
very high velocity.</i></b> Attempts to measure
these distortion should open up new frontiers of
physics. “The potential gradients representing
“forces”, obey the principle of linear superposition;
very much like the EM wave amplitudes; even though the
former is “stationary” around the parent particle; and
the latter is true propagating wave that follows the
classic wave equation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">LCH should
accommodate a new group of experimentalist to design
experiments to measure the distortions in the
electrostatic “force gradient” generated by speeding
electrons and protons. Speedy protons-electron
collision might help reveal the distortion in their
gravitational potential gradients. These potential
gradient based “forces” are not <b><i>communicated</i></b>
by some particles. Causality is not violated. “c” is
not exceeded by anything since even the particles are
light-like self-looped oscillations. Note that I am
using the phrase, light-like oscillations of the CTF;
they are not constructed out of photons. Photon wave
packets are linear propagating excitations of the CTF;
perpetually running away from the original point in
space where they were created by some dipole
oscillation (from radio to nuclear). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Albrecht: <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">In a separate recent
email you have raised a very important point, which in
some of my epistemology articles underscore as the
necessity of assigning the physical parameters in any
physics equation with the hierarchy of “primary”,
“secondary”, “tertiary”, etc., based upon the physical
roles they play in interactions with other entities;
or their emergence out of the CTF. So, I like your
argument related to </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Helvetica',sans-serif">√μ</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria Math',serif">₀</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE:
10pt">=1/</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Helvetica',sans-serif">c√(ε</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria Math',serif; COLOR:
windowtext">₀</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext">)</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">. </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">In this context, we may
note that Einstein</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Helvetica',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE:
12pt"> </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">preferred
to write m=E/c-squared; because m is not an immutable
property; it is an emergent property in our methods of
measuring it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext"> General [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Here is one reference
for the speed of gravity and pulsars.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The speed of gravity – What the
experiments say – attached.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext"> Chip Akins [</span><a
href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 25, 2016 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion' <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists..natureoflightandparticles.org</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Gravity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi John D and Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As it turns out gravity
needs to be 10000 to 20000 times as fast as light in
order for the orbits of the pulsars to be as we
observe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If most of the mass of
a black hole is inside the “event horizon” then how
does the huge gravity field escape? It seem that all
of the black holes gravity escapes the event horizon
with no problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">For a black hole to
have gravity which is related to its mass then gravity
HAS to travel faster than light.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Charge (the Coulomb
field) also travels “almost instantaneously” (10000 to
20000 times the speed of light).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yes John D. Transverse
(S) waves travel at the velocity:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if gte msEquation 12]><m:oMathPara><m:oMath><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r><m:rPr><m:scr m:val="roman"/><m:sty m:val="p"/></m:rPr>v=</m:r></span><m:rad><m:radPr><m:degHide m:val="on"/><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:radPr><m:deg></m:deg><m:e><m:f><m:fPr><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:fPr><m:num><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r>μ</m:r></span></i></m:num><m:den><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r>ρ</m:r></span></i></m:den></m:f></m:e></m:rad></m:oMath></m:oMathPara><![endif]--><!--[if
!msEquation]--><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
mso-fareast-language: EN-US"><img style="WIDTH:
0.527in; HEIGHT: 0.59in" id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part13.DC656660.0AC0A7D6@a-giese.de"
height="57" width="51"></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Where v is velocity of
propagation, </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Cambria Math',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">𝜇</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> is the transverse modulus of the
medium, and </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cambria
Math',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">𝜌</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> is the “density” of the medium.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And longitudinal (P)
waves travel at the velocity:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><!--[if gte msEquation 12]><m:oMathPara><m:oMath><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r><m:rPr><m:scr m:val="roman"/><m:sty m:val="p"/></m:rPr>v=</m:r></span><m:rad><m:radPr><m:degHide m:val="on"/><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:radPr><m:deg></m:deg><m:e><m:f><m:fPr><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:fPr><m:num><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r>K</m:r></span></i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r><m:rPr><m:scr m:val="roman"/><m:sty m:val="p"/></m:rPr>+ </m:r></span><m:d><m:dPr><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:dPr><m:e><m:f><m:fPr><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:ctrlPr></m:ctrlPr></span></m:fPr><m:num><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r><m:rPr><m:scr m:val="roman"/><m:sty m:val="p"/></m:rPr>4</m:r></span></m:num><m:den><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r><m:rPr><m:scr m:val="roman"/><m:sty m:val="p"/></m:rPr>3</m:r></span></m:den></m:f><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r>μ</m:r></span></i></m:e></m:d></m:num><m:den><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'><m:r>ρ</m:r></span></i></m:den></m:f></m:e></m:rad></m:oMath></m:oMathPara><![endif]--><!--[if
!msEquation]--><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri',sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
mso-fareast-language: EN-US"><img style="WIDTH:
1.166in; HEIGHT: 0.777in" id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part14.4CA8739B.2DA23FFC@a-giese.de"
height="75" width="112"></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Where K is the bulk or
longitudinal modulus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">We have never found a
medium which supports transverse waves and does not
support longitudinal waves. Longitudinal waves are
always faster, and can be orders of magnitude faster.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext"> General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Duffield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 25, 2016 1:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion' <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists..natureoflightandparticles.org</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Chip:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">I don’t think it’s heresy. See </span><a
href="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/seismic.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">hyperphysics</span></a><span
style="COLOR: #1f497d" lang="EN-GB">: <i>“S waves
travel typically 60% of the speed of P waves”. <o:p></o:p></i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if different
types of waves in space travelled at different speeds
too. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">But I have to say I’m not totally
convinced by the recent LIGO news. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext"> General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vladimir
Tamari<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 August 2016 16:14<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists..natureoflightandparticles.org</a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Chip</span><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The pulsars
analysis sounds interesting - a reference would be
appreciated. Would it change calculation if one
considers that just as light slows down in a
gravitational field (as John D pointed out) gravity
itself would slow down in its own field. A
gravitational wave starts out sluggish just after
starting out at the edge of the black holes and
reach c in empty space?<br>
<br>
Here is a thought: Following my own arguments would
measuring light velocity as c in the Earth's
gravitational field mean it is larger in space?!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Vladimir<br>
_____________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://vladimirtamari.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">vladimirtamari.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
On Aug 25, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Chip Akins <</span><a
href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Hi
All</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">The
issue of gravity is a bit more involved than the
density of electromagnetic fields.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">When
we study binary pulsars, we see orbits which are
much more stable than they would be if gravity
traveled at the speed of electromagnetic fields.
Studying pulsars is important because if the speed
of gravity is the same as the speed of light these
pulsars would change their orbits at a specific
rate, but they do not. The “static field” argument
does not apply to pulsars which are moving massive
bodies with their gravitational centers constantly
changing. Studying pulsars clearly indicates that
gravity is much faster than light (electromagnetic
fields).</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">It
seems that gravity may be the result of the
Coulomb field (electric charge) density instead of
electromagnetic field density. (There is a
significant difference between the Coulomb field
and electromagnetic fields). </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">I
have quoted two experiments on this forum before,
conducted in Italy, which indicate that the
Coulomb field (charge) is much faster than the
speed of light, just a Feynman found in one of his
papers.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">While
moving charge creates electromagnetic fields,
charge is not the same as an electromagnetic
field. It is not even the same as the E portion of
the EM field. Charge is a quantized quantity, EM
radiation may be any magnitude.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">There
are things in this universe which travel much
faster than light.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">I
know some will consider these statements to be
“heresy”, but take a good look at the experimental
evidence and the issue of binary pulsars.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Happy
to provide references for those interested.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Chip</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times
New Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT:
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0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt
solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP:
3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">
General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Duffield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 25, 2016 2:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion' <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">Vlad:</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">It’s the Einstein
digital papers. See </span><a
href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22spatially%20variable%22"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
14pt" lang="EN-GB">this</span></a><span
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"
lang="EN-GB">. The first page is </span><a
href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/129?ajax"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="FONT-SIZE:
14pt" lang="EN-GB">here</span></a><span
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"
lang="EN-GB">. Einstein was talking about the <i>“Fundamental
Ideas and Methods of the Theory of Relativity,
Presented in Their Development”.</i></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: #222222"
lang="EN-GB"></span></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">Note though that
Einstein wasn’t talking in terms of “a car
decelerating because it takes a curve”. He was
talking about a car’s path curving to the left <i>because</i>
the speed of its wheels on the left is less than
the speed of its wheels on the right. Imagine
you’re driving down a country road. The road is
muddy on the left, so the car pulls left. We steer
tanks in this fashion. </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">Your paper reminds
me of Inhomogeneous Vaccuum, an Alternative
Interpretation of Curved Spacetime. See attached.
</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><image002.jpg><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt" lang="EN-GB">John </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
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solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP:
3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">
General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Vladimir Tamari<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 August 2016 03:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Very good
Grahame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">John D. What
is the book you quoted about light speed
varying? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Yes Einstein
admitted that the speed of light had to vary, as
in mechanics the speed slows down with curvature
- that is the link between gravity and
acceleration - actually deceleration when a car
takes a curve. Unfortunately the whole
unnecessarily complex structure of General
Relativity equations remained expressed in the
language of variable spacetime!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In my 1993
paper United Dipole Field I show how curvature
of light rays ie gravity occured in the variable
refractive index of a dipole. </span><a
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/United-Dipole-Field-Tamari.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">http://vladimirtamari.com/United-Dipole-Field-Tamari.pdf</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Here is a
figure from the Dipole paper. I generalized this
idea in my Beautiful Universe model for an
entire Universe made up of such dipoles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><image003.jpg><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">_____________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://vladimirtamari.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">vladimirtamari.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
On Aug 25, 2016, at 2:47 AM, John Duffield <</span><a
href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM:
5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Grahame:</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Sorry I haven’t got back to you
on your paper yet, I’ve been busy. But note
that Einstein never said light curves because
spacetime was curved. He said light curves
because the speed of light varies with
position. </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><image001.jpg></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Light curves for the same reason
sonar waves curve.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><image002.gif><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">JohnD</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:
windowtext" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">
General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 August 2016 14:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-GB">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext" lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Gravity</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Dear Chandra, John D,
John H, Wolf and others,</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Thanks, Chandra, for your
response. I totally agree that the answer
to the gravitation issue (as to so many
others) involves reverse engineering the
system we refer to as reality. More on that
below. (I also find myself in strong
agreement with your views on 'the spacetime
continuum'.)</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">John D, I agree also the
the 'curvature' of spacetime is in fact
inhomogeneity of the electromagnetic field
density - which also appears to concur with
Hammond's view. More on this also below.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Wolf, I understand your
preference for considering the interplay of
electricity and gravity/inertia; however,
given that gravitation is an effect wholly
engendered by particles of matter, it seems
most unlikely that we're going to understand
gravity without getting a clear grip on
those particles.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">The SR 'explanation' of
gravitation as 'curvature of spacetime' is
in fact no explanation at all - it says
nothing about WHAT is being curved, HOW it's
being curved, WHAT it is about matter that
causes that curvature or WHY light and
material objects move in accordance with
that 'curvature'. It's a useful picture,
certainly, but in terms of explanation it
appears to add little to Newton's
action-at-a-distance (other than
relativistic effects).</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">So let's try a bit of
that reverse systems engineering:</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (1): It's known (and
has been since at least 1934) that particles
of matter are (time-varying) electromagnetic
constructs.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (2): Given fact (1),
and given that electromagnetic field effects
drop off inverse-quadratically in relation
to the distance from their source, it
follows that material particles will have a
presence that likewise drops off as the
inverse square of distance; that presence is
detectable - we refer to it by two names:
gravitation and electrical charge.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (3): In this very
real sense every particle of matter is in
fact unlimited spatially in its extent; the
limitations that we attribute to such
particles are in fact limitations of our own
perception, which is only capable of
detecting them through 'virtual photon'
interactions, which are interactions between
the central 'cores' (loops) of particles
being sensed and particles doing the
sensing.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (4): Given facts
(1) - (3), it follows that the whole of
space will be permeated by the totality of
(time-varying) electromagnetic field effects
from all the particles in the universe, each
contributing in accordance with the inverse
square law; given also the evening out of
'positive' and 'negative' charge effects on
a macroscopic scale, these field effects
constitute what we refer to as 'the
universal gravitational field'.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (5): That field
will vary in intensity in accordance with
distance from the various massive bodies
that form it; this varying intensity of
electromagnetic field effects will influence
the behaviour of other electromagnetic
constructs passing through that field, i.e.
ensembles of particles that form massive
bodies; (it is implicit in this, of course,
that the principle of coherent superposition
of linear photons won't apply to these
non-linear time-varying electromagnetic
field effects - i.e.they will influence each
other through a complex process of mutual
interference).</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (6): This varying
density of field effects will give this
continuum a 'shape' defined by the surfaces
of equal intensity of those effects; these
3-D contours will effectively determine the
motion of electromagnetic constructs -
light, particles - through that medium; (any
scuba diver who has seen or felt a
thermocline in water will have a good
analogy to work from here).</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (7): It's implicit,
and would necessarily be the case, that,
although electrostatic charge 'cancel out'
if they are equal and opposite, the
electromagnetic field effects giving rise to
those charges will in fact be additive
across the cosmos; likewise, though
gravitational 'pull' from opposing
directions may appear to cancel out, there
may still be a strong gravitational field in
that location - think of a plateau high on a
great mountain, with a small hillock on that
platea.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Fact (8): Substantial
supporting detail for this perspective on
gravitation can be found in my paper 'Cosmic
System Dynamics', posted with my email of
20th August.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">A couple of points as a
postscript:</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">(a) This means that we
ourselves, being ensembles of material
particles, actually extend across the whole
cosmos; this may prove relevant;</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">(b) The entire cosmos is
in fact one electromagnetic entity; from the
QM point of view there is just ONE
wavefunction, spanning the whole universe:
wavefunctions for single particles or
ensembles of particles are in fact local
approximations to this universal
wavefunction, in which terms for more
distant influences have been ignored as
being insignificant; this could well have
something to say about 'quantum randomness',
which may in fact be those other influences
tipping the balance (this is also expanded
upon in my book).</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Best regards to all,</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Grahame</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: navy 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM:
0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT:
4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium
none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP:
0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">-----
Original Message ----- </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><a
title="chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Roychoudhuri,
Chandra</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">To:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> </span><a
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> ; </span><a
title="chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Roychoudhuri,
Chandra</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> ; </span><a
title="chandra@phys.uconn.edu"
href="mailto:chandra@phys.uconn.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Chandra
UConn</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Sent:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> Sunday, August 21, 2016 3:54
PM</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Subject:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> Re: [General] Gravity and
ultraweak-photonemission</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Grahame:
I like your spirit, the mode of thinking.
I call it ergently needed "Evolution
Process Congruent Thinking", which I
sometimes express as, "Reverse System
Engineering Thinking".</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">My
papers can be downloaded from the web: </span><a
href="http://phy.ucon.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB">phy.ucon.edu</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"> -- faculty
-- research; the link is below my image.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Keep
up the good spirit.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB">Chandra. </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Times New Roman',serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="composer_signature">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: #575757; FONT-SIZE:
10pt" lang="EN-GB">Sent via the Samsung
Galaxy S® 5 ACTIVE™, an AT&T 4G LTE
smartphone</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Dr Grahame Blackwell <</span><a
href="mailto:grahame@starweave.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB">grahame@starweave.com</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB">> <br>
Date: 8/21/2016 8:04 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif;
COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
lang="EN-GB">> <br>
Subject: Re: [General] Gravity and
ultraweak-photonemission </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Thanks John,</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">I'm more than ever
convinced that unless we can get a
better grasp of what 'space-time'
actually IS - which fundamentally means
a proper understanding of gravitation -
then our species is at very serious risk
of imploding and taking much (most?) of
life on this planet with us. For the
past century or more we've been looking
inward rather than outward; humankind is
essentally an outward-looking race (the
very word 'race' implies that!), and
without somewhere to look outward TO we
tend to flounder and bicker - just look
around the planet today! The world is
so vastly overcrowded now, and set to be
increasingly more so, with numerous
environmental issues to compound the
problem. We need new horizons, new
frontiers, more than we ever did in the
time of Vasco de Gama and Columbus!</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">[As an aside, I hope we'd
also be rather more considerate of
any indigenous lifeforms that those who
followed Columbus!]</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">That's a major reason why
I've offered my proposal on gravitation
for consideration. If we don't crack
this one, VERY soon, we may run out of
time, lebensraum AND the ability to deal
with the pressure-cooker environment
we've created for ourselves. David
Attenborough is proposing that we
seriously limit population growth; the
Chinese have tried that and it didn't
work - and it never will; the 'prime
directive' built into our makeup by
evolution is procreation. Our planet is
like a dandelion head full of seeds
ready to fly - we've even been exploring
the heavens around us for places to fly
TO! What we need now is the way to do
it; I earnestly believe that the way to
do it is there in a greater
understanding of matter, space-time and
gravitation - but not as long as the
established scientific community insists
on hanging on to outdated paradigms and
doggedly refuses to even look at things
from a new perspective.</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Ok, off my soap-box now.
But I do really hope that a few of you
out there will take a look at my paper
posted with my last email; if there's
something clearly wrong with it, please
tell me - if not, please tell others!
Thanks.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif;
COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Grahame</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">-----
Original Message ----- </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><a
title="johnduffield@btconnect.com"
href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">John Duffield</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">To:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><a
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">'Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion'</span></a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Sent:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">
Saturday, August 20, 2016 6:04 PM</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR:
windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">Subject:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB"> Re:
[General] Gravity and
ultraweak-photonemission</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New
Roman',serif; COLOR: windowtext;
FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang="EN-GB"></span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">Grahame:</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">I share your
general sentiment. I’ll read through
your paper and get back to you.
Meanwhile I rather think the “shake
the rug” waves are light waves. A
gravitational field is a place where
space is inhomogeneous, not curved.
See what Percy Hammond says</span><span
class="comment-copy"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia',serif;
COLOR: #242729; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><a
href="http://www.compumag.org/jsite/images/stories/newsletter/ICS-99-06-2-Hammond.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia',serif;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">here</span></a><span
class="comment-copy"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia',serif;
COLOR: #242729; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang="EN-GB">: <i>"We conclude that
the field describes the curvature
that characterizes the
electromagnetic interaction"</i>.
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR:
#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT:
0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP:
#e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT:
medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="COLOR: windowtext"
lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span
style="COLOR: windowtext"
lang="EN-GB"> General [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-GB">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext"
lang="EN-GB">] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr
Grahame Blackwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 20 August 2016 16:37<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion
<</span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-GB">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="COLOR: windowtext"
lang="EN-GB">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
Gravity and
ultraweak-photonemission</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Hi
Wolfgang, John M, John D, Hubert,
Vladimir, Beverly et al.,</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">There
appear to be very strong reasons to
believe that gravitation is in fact
an EM effect. If one starts from
the premise that elementary
particles are themselves
electromagnetic constructs then it's
almost a foregone conclusion. That
premise was strongly evidenced by
Landau & Lifshits in Sov. Phys.,
1934, reinforced by Breit &
Wheeler later that same year and
proved beyond all reasonable doubt
at SLAC in 1997 by Burke et al.
(Phys Rev Lett 79, pp1626-9).</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">It's
at times somewhat paradoxical to me
that physicists (present company
excepted!) all too often go looking
for complicated explanations when
there's a simple one staring them in
the face. If one simply sees the
force of attraction between unlike
unit charges as being minutely
greater than the force of repulsion
between like charges - and there's
no known reason why they should be
identical (in fact it's likely that
they won't) - then gravitation drops
out totally naturally as the
difference between those two
effects. This would seem to sit
well with Occam's razor since it
eliminates the need for one
otherwise totally unexplained cosmic
force at a stroke. We know that
every nucleon is made up of a mix of
particles of opposing charge
(quarks) to give an overall charge;
it seems eminently likely that even
those quarks are formed from
energies that, taken separately,
would give rise to either
positive or negative charge elements
to give the overall charge for a
quark - this links the gravitational
effect of a particle directly to its
total energy content and so to its
total mass.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">I've
attached a copy of my paper,
published in 'Kybernetes' five years
ago, that details this proposal for
gravitation. You'll see that it
posits the notion that space(-time)
has a 'texture' (also explaining its
'stiffness' and the 'curvature of
spacetime') given by the summation
of all time-varying EM field effects
emanating from all of the material
particles in the universe - this of
course draws on the fact that
electromagnetic fields are unlimited
in their reach (and electromagnetic
potential is unblockable -
Aharonov-Bohm Effect), i.e. that
what we experience as a localised
particle is just the 'core', so to
speak, of an electromagnetic field
effect unlimited in its extent. The
(-time) in brackets above reflects
the fact that this 'texture' of this
'neo-aether' is continually varying
as celestial bodies (and groups of
celestial bodies) are themselves in
continuous motion, so also is their
contribution to this 'textured'
continuum.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">I'd be
most interested in any feedback on
this proposal, including of course
any clear reasons (if any such
exist) why it may not be a feasible
proposition. You'll note that this
concept includes a pretty thorough
explanation for every aspect of the
Equivalence Principle as included in
GR. There's also the strong
implication that the gravity waves
recently detected are themselves
electromagnetic constructs (since
the fabric of spacetime is itself EM
in nature, and so susceptible to
being 'shaken like a rug' by such
waves); this may have something to
say to Beverly's field of interest,
since tidal forces are themselves in
a sense a pale shadow of gravity
waves.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Thanks
all,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial',sans-serif; COLOR: navy;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang="EN-GB">Grahame</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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