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<p><font size="-1">Al, <br>
true that there are particles which are accessible more easily.
But photons can be deflected by double slits, also by the
Compton effect. And they can also interact with other photons
under specific conditions. There is just a new report published
by the university of Vienna/Wien (Austria). Published in "Nature
Photonics". And on the other hand: If one wants to manipulate a
neutron and get it into a specific direction, is that simple? <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="-1">Is there in easy access to your paper of 1978?</font></p>
<p><font size="-1">Albrecht</font><br>
</p>
<blockquote
cite="mid:7d40c472-7132-93f3-6ffa-f93e4c82b389@a-giese.de"
type="cite">
<div class="moz-forward-container">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="-1">Am 02.09.2016 um
19:25 schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-d98bff51-f419-4195-885c-f664d0f09e02-1472837107701@3capp-webde-bap50"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Albert:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Philosophically you have a point: no one has ever
"seen" an electron by means of eyeballs. But, it is a
matter of degree. Photons are not manipulable. If it
is intended to casue them to do something, then they are
not engagned, rather the electrons for an electron
current are, etc. Likewise, if it is itneded to receive
a photon, then it is required to arrange to have
electrons lined up (in an antenna, say) waiting for
them. The properteies ascribed to "photons" in fact are
not measured directly, but infered from those of the
source/sink electrons (sometimes positrons, or whatever
is taken to be such in a bubble chamber, etc.). If the
purpose is to do FUNDAMENTAL physics, then pedantic
points such as these can turn out to be critical. If
all that is needed are recipies to enable the design of
gadgets, then ...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mp point is to attract attention to the only closed,
self consitent formulation of Electrodynamcis [all
common versions are in fact just approximations], as
described in an old paper of mine (J Math Phys. 19(4),
838 (1978). </div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
02. September 2016 um 14:29 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"><phys@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] photons: particles or?</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-2">Al Kracklauer says:<br>
<br>
"Photons are a phantasy! All that is know
about photons comes from infering what caused
a photo-electron (positron) to do what it did.
NO experimenter knows anything about a
"photon" as it as such is unobservable. "</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-2">I have described an experiment which
I have made for my PhD thesis. How can the
result of my experiment explained in the view
that photons are fantasy? I have expected here
an answer to this question.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-2">And "a photon is unobservable". Was
a quark ever be observed? The up-quark and the
down-quark cannot even be isolated. But they
are understood to be particles. Was an
electron or a positron ever be observed? I
have never seen any of them even though in the
research-centre, which I was working for,
electrons have been the main focus of
observation. No properties of a photon known?
A photon has a known energy, momentum,
frequency, charge (=0), spin. Not enough?</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-2">How is the existence of a particle
is defined? A definition could be that it is
an object which carries a clearly defined
amount of energy. If this is accepted then the
objects / photons in my experiment have
clearly </font><font face="Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif" size="-2"> been </font><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-2">particles.
If it is not accepted, please give us a usable
definition.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-2">Albrecht</font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font
face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" size="-2">Am
30.08.2016 um 19:10 schrieb <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</font></div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>
<p>Albert Giese wrote:</p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-1">"Another point in the
discussion is the question of how
photons can be understood. It is said
(at different places of the foregoing
discussion) that matter (i.e. leptons
and quarks) can be converted into pure
energy, which means photons in this
context. Why is it denied that a photon
is a particle? It has all properties of
a particle which the speciality that it
permanently moves with c. And with this
latter property it is very close to a
neutrino for which nobody questions that
it is a particle. And a photon has a
well defined energy. This fact was
indeed questioned by some contributions
in this forum. To those who are
questioning it I would like to explain
the following: ..."</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
size="-1">To this one might retort:</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Photons are a phantasy! All that is know
about photons comes from infering what
caused a photo-electron (positron) to do
what it did. NO experimenter knows
anything about a "photon" as it as such is
unobservable. Only photo induced
electrons are. Thus any theory about what
has happend behind the veil is just
guess-work. Further, any imaginary
concoction that correctly predics the
behaviour of photo-electrons is equally
valid. Honesty with one's self requires
acknowledging that theories about the
unknowable are are also unverifiable.</p>
<p>No matter what "people" do or don't
question about nutrinos [a thoretical
entity with an even more vague pedigree!],
the state of knowledge about these
entities is beyond the knowable and in the
realm of myth. It is, therefore,
eminently arguabble that, electric
interaction should be denoted as just that
and limit the theory to what
source-electrons do to sink-electrons
without imaginay intermediate, artificial
constructs. </p>
<p>For what it's worth, Al Krackauer</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
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