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    <p>Al:</p>
    <p>I think the "where is the evidence" argument is no longer
      powerful because so many things happening in physics have little
      or even contradictory evidence. I'm just reading Van Flanders 1998
      "the speed of gravity" Physics Letters A250 1-11 which makes a
      good case for gravity influences influences moving instantly - not
      at the speed of light. <br>
    </p>
    <p>However I like your idea of only interactions - in fact I'm
      developing a theory along those lines by modeling nothing as an
      empty page and requiring material formatting of the page as an
      explicit field of space cells. This still allows fields as a
      shortcut for calculating  interactions from multiple distant
      cells, but nothing remains nothing, if there are no cells to host
      interactions i.e. sources and sinks, then there is no influence
      propagating. It takes some material to propagate influences. <br>
    </p>
    <p>I would be very curious to read how your "one way out" formulates
      this problem. <br>
    </p>
    <p>One of my hang ups is that any visualization of material basis
      for space implies a kind of permanent structural relationship
      between sources and sinks - but objects do seem to move fairly
      fluidly from place to place. Do sources and sinks move in your
      vision, If so what do they move in?</p>
    <p>best,</p>
    <p>Wolf<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2017 10:20 PM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-a8d78138-8395-4545-a198-0f39483ba66c-1485066042967@3capp-webde-bap54"
      type="cite">
      <div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
        <div>
          <div>Challenge for proponents of fields (all kinds: E&M,
            Gravity, Tension, whatever):  If the universe is finite,
            then the field sources on the outer rind will be pumping
            field energy into the void, the material universe would be
            cooling down, etc. So, where is the evidence for such?  If
            the universe is finite but topologically closed, then it
            will have certain "Betti numbers" for various forms which
            will be closed, (see: algebraic topology texts), again there
            should be some observable consequence from the these closed
            forms.  So (again) where's the evidence?   Granted, current
            tech may not be up to the task; but that would imply that
            field theories have to be reduced in status to be virtually
            religion.</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>One way out:  there are no fields, but interactions
            between sources and sinks.  Where one is missing, there's
            nothing!  In particular nothing emminating from sources
            without regard for target-like sinks.  Advantage: the math
            works out without internal contradictions (divergencies,
            etc.).  Another advantage: from this viewpoint, there are no
            waves, and associated divergencies.  They are just cocek the
            ptual Fourier components for the interactions.  Useful, but
            strictly hypothetical. </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>For what it's worth, Al</div>
          <div> 
            <div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
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              <div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
                22. Januar 2017 um 04:19 Uhr<br>
                <b>Von:</b> "Roychoudhuri, Chandra"
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"><chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu></a><br>
                <b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General
                Discussion"
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
                <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group</div>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">John M.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">I am not the right
                        person to give you decisive answers as I have
                        not followed the math relevant to the origin of
                        Gravitational Wave (GW) and its spontaneous
                        propagation. </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">      First, you can
                        find out the current state of technology in the
                        measuring precision of (i) fringe fraction, F
                        (i.e., 180-degree/F) vs. (i) polarization angle
                        fraction F (90-degree/F). As I recall, much
                        better than thousandth of a fringe-shift is now
                        measurable. I do not know what is the current
                        best value of F for polarization measurement.
                        You can look up Gravitational Faraday Effect
                        also. I did “poke my nose” there in the past;
                        but could not find anything measurable.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     Second, more
                        fundamental physics. All material based waves
                        and light waves require a continuous tension
                        field that steadily gets pushed away from the
                        original site of perturbation induced on the
                        field; provided the perturbation does not exceed
                        the restoration linearity condition (“Young’s
                        Modulus”, or equivalent). For, stretched
                        material string, the mechanical tension is T and
                        the restoration force is the “inertial mass”
                        “Sigma” per unit length; then string-wave
                        v-squared =T/Sigma. For light, c-squared =
                        Epsilon-inverse/Mu. Epsilon-inverse is the
                        electric tension and Mu is the magnetic
                        restoration force. These analogies are explained
                        in some of my papers; I have sent earlier.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">      Now my very
                        basic question for the experts in GW: <b><i>How
                            do you define the GW-tension field?</i></b>
                        All spontaneously propagating waves require a
                        steady and continuous tension field in which a
                        suitable perturbation triggers the original
                        wave. What is the velocity of GW and what are
                        the corresponding tension and restoration
                        parameters? If you say, it is the same velocity
                        as “c”, for the EM wave; then <b><i>we have
                            some serious confusion to resolve</i></b>.
                        Are the tension and restoration parameters same
                        as those for EM waves? Then, why should we call
                        it GW; instead of pulsed EM waves? Or, <b><i>are
                            the two parameters really physically
                            different for GW</i></b>(should be); but
                        GW-velocity number just happens to coincide with
                        “c”?</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     I took
                        Einstein’s explanation for the origin of Gravity
                        as the “Curvature of Space” literally, as the
                        Potential Gradient generated around any assembly
                        of Baryonic Particles. So, a pair of rotating
                        binary stars will generate a periodically
                        oscillating potential gradient. Whatever the
                        value of the effective gravity of a “stationary”
                        binary star around earth is; it would be
                        oscillating slightly when the “stationary”
                        binary stars start rotating around themselves.
                        But, this is not Gravity Wave to me. It is a
                        phenomenon of “locally” changing value of the
                        “curvature of space”; not a passing by wave.
                        Imagine the typical “trampoline demo” for
                        Einsteinian gravity with a heavy iron ball at
                        the depressed center. If you periodically
                        magnetically attract the iron ball to
                        effectively reduce the trampoline curvature; we
                        are not generating propagating GW; we are
                        periodically changing the local “curvature”! </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     These comments
                        should give you some pragmatic “food for
                        thought”! </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">Chandra.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:
                          11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);"> </span></a></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border: none;border-top: solid
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                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
                              10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma
                            , sans-serif;"> General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Macken<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:14
                            PM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
                            General Discussion'<br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and
                            particles group</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Chandra,</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">I have one quick question for
                        you and the group to consider.  You mention that
                        Maxwell connected the speed of light to the
                        properties of space (epsilon and mu). To explain
                        my question, I first have to give some
                        background which is accomplished by quoting a
                        short section of the previously attached paper.
                      </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11.0pt;">“Gravitational waves
                        (GWs) propagate in the medium of spacetime. They
                        are transverse quadrupole waves which slightly
                        distort the “fabric of space”.  For example, a
                        GW propagating in the “Z” direction would cause
                        a sphere made from baryonic matter such as metal
                        to become an oscillating ellipsoid.  When the
                        sphere expands in the X direction it contracts
                        in the Y direction and vice versa. The GW
                        produces: 1) no change in the total volume of
                        the oscillating sphere 2) no change in the rate
                        of time, 3) no displacement of the center of
                        mass of the oscillating sphere. </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span
                        style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Point #3 addresses an important point.
                        If there are two isolated masses such as two
                        LIGO interferometer mirrors suspended by wires
                        [17], the passage of a GW does not move the
                        mirror’s center of mass.  Instead of the mirrors
                        physically moving, the GW changes the properties
                        of spacetime producing a redshift and a blue
                        shift on LIGO’s laser beams.  This difference in
                        wavelength is detected by the interferometer as
                        a fringe shift…”</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">With this introduction, the
                        questions are:</span></p>
                    <ol start="1" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
                      <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Should a GW effect the
                        permeability and permittivity of free space?</li>
                      <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Should the two orthogonal
                         polarizations of a GW produce opposite effects
                        on the permeability and permittivity of free
                        space?</li>
                      <li class="MsoNormal" style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Since epsilon and mu determine
                        the speed of light, should a GW produce a
                        different effect on the two orthogonal
                        polarizations of light?</li>
                    </ol>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">If the answer to question #3 is
                        yes, then this suggests that it should be
                        possible to detect GWs by monitoring the
                        polarization of a laser beam.  It is vastly
                        simpler to detect a slight difference in the
                        polarization of a single beam of light than it
                        is to detect the same optical shift between two
                        arms of an interferometer.  The interferometer
                        encounters vibration noise to a much greater
                        degree than is encountered in the polarization
                        of a single laser beam.  Also, multiple laser
                        beams could identify the direction of the GW
                        much better than an interferometer.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Perhaps this is off the subject
                        of the discussion group. But it is an example of
                        a subject which might be low hanging fruit that
                        could make a historic contribution to physics. 
                        In the past I have made the suggestion that GWs
                        produce a polarization effect, but this
                        suggestion is lacking additional insight and
                        analysis to be taken seriously.  Is there anyone
                        in this group with the expertise to contribute
                        to this study?  </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">John M.  </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <div>
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                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
                              11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
                            Calibri , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                              return false;" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017
                            11:56 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
                            General Discussion <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                              return false;" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and
                            particles group</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">“Gravitational
                        waves indicate vacuum energy exists”, paper by
                        John Macken</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">John M.: Thanks
                        for attaching your paper. <b><i>The title
                            clearly indicates that we really are in
                            basic agreement. The cosmic space has
                            physical properties.</i></b> I have
                        expressed my views a bit differently, that the
                        cosmic space is a <b><i>stationary </i></b>Complex
                        Tension Filed (CTF), <b><i>holding 100% of the
                            cosmic energy</i></b> in the attached papers
                        and in my book, “Causal Physics”. <b><i>If the
                            so-called vacuous cosmic space and the CTF
                            were not inseparable, the velocity of light
                            would have been different through different
                            regions of the cosmic space</i></b>!</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     I just do
                        not like to continue to use the word “vacuum”
                        because, in the English language, it has
                        acquired a very different meaning (“nothing”)
                        for absolute majority of people over many
                        centuries. It is better not to confuse common
                        people by asserting new meanings on very old and
                        very well established words. </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     Further, in
                        your support, the quantitative values of at
                        least two physical properties,</span> <span
                        style="font-size: 11.0pt;color:
                        rgb(153,51,102);">Epsilon & Mu, of the comic
                        space have already presented as quantified
                        properties by Maxwell around 1867 through his
                        wave equation. Recall
                        (c-squared)=(1/Epsilon.Mu). These properties of
                        the cosmic space were already quantified before
                        Maxwell by the early developers of
                        electrostatics and magneto statics.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     I assume
                        that you are suggesting us that we need to
                        postulate and quantify other physical properties
                        possessed by this cosmic space (<b><i>Maxwellian
                            or Faraday Tension Field</i></b>?), so that
                        the “emergent dynamic particles” out of this
                        cosmic space would display all the properties we
                        have already been measuring for well over a
                        century.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">      However, I
                        disagree, as of now, that cosmic space is
                        “space-time” four dimensional. Because, the
                        “running time” is not a measurable physical
                        parameter of any physical entity that we know of
                        in this universe. So, I assert that the “running
                        time” cannot be altered by any physical process.
                        <b><i>Humans have smartly derived the concept of
                            “running time” using various kinds of
                            harmonic oscillators and/or periodic
                            motions.</i></b> We can alter the frequency
                        of a physical oscillator by changing its
                        physical environment. Of course, this is my
                        personal perception, <b><i>not supported by the
                            entire group</i></b>. But, that is precisely
                        the purpose of this free and honest discussions
                        so we can learn from each other. As my
                        understanding evolves; I might change back my
                        mind and accept space as four- or even
                        thirteen-dimensional.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">Chandra.</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border: none;border-top: solid
                        rgb(181,196,223) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt 0.0in
                        0.0in 0.0in;">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
                              10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma
                            , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                              return false;" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Macken<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 1:37
                            PM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
                            General Discussion'; 'Andrew Worsley'<br>
                            <b>Cc:</b> 'M.A.'<br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and
                            particles group</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">Dear Chandra and All,</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">You have said “</span><span
                        style="font-size: 11.0pt;">We definitely have
                        advanced our <b><i>collective understanding</i></b>
                        that <b><i>space is not empty and the particles
                            are some form of emergent properties of this
                            same universal cosmic field.</i></b></span><span
                        style="color: rgb(32,24,140);">”  The idea that
                        space is not an empty void has not been
                        quantified in any model of spacetime proposed by
                        members of  the group. </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">I have concentrated in defining
                        and quantifying the properties of the vacuum and
                        the results are presented in the attached
                        paper.  This paper analyzes the properties of
                        spacetime encountered by gravitational waves.
                         The conclusion is that spacetime is a sea of
                        Planck length vacuum fluctuations that oscillate
                        at Planck frequency. This model can be
                        quantified, analyzed and tested.  It is shown
                        that this model gives the correct energy for
                        virtual particle formation.  It also gives the
                        correct energy density for black holes, the
                        correct zero point energy density of the
                        universe (about 10<sup>113</sup> J/m<sup>3</sup>)
                        and generates the Friedmann equation for the
                        critical density of the universe (about 10<sup>-26</sup>
                        kg/m<sup>3</sup> =  10<sup>-9</sup> J/m<sup>3</sup>).
                      </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">The reason for mentioning this
                        to a group interested in the structure of
                        electrons,  photons and electric fields is that
                        the quantifiable properties of spacetime must be
                        incorporated into any particle or field  model.
                      </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                        rgb(32,24,140);">John  M.</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border: none;border-top: solid
                        rgb(225,225,225) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt 0.0in
                        0.0in 0.0in;">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
                              11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
                            Calibri , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                              return false;" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:45
                            AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Andrew Worsley <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                              onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                              return false;" target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>>;
                            Light & particles. Web discussion <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                              return false;" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                            <b>Cc:</b> M.A. <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu"
                              onclick="parent.window.location.href='ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu';
                              return false;" target="_blank">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and
                            particles group</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Dear Andrew Worsely: </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">    This is a platform for ethical,
                        serious and honest discussions on scientific
                        issues that the prevailing mainstream platforms
                        have been shunning. We definitely do not want to
                        sow unsubstantiated distrust within this group.
                        <b><i>This not a political forum where
                            sophisticated deceptions are highly prized;
                            which has been intellectualized as
                            “post-truth”!</i></b> This is not a
                        “post-truth” forum.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">     So, please, <b><i><span
                              style="color: rgb(192,0,0);">help us</span></i></b><span
                          style="color: rgb(192,0,0);"> </span>by
                        getting help from computer professionals before
                        repeating any further unsubstantiated
                        accusations.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">     If you can definitively identify
                        anybody within our group carrying out unethical
                        and destructive activities; obviously, we would
                        bar such persons from this group discussion.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Chandra.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Dear All Participants:    </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Please be vigilant in maintaining the
                        essential ethics behind this discussion forum –
                        honestly accept or reject others’ opinions;
                        preferably, <b><i>build upon them. This is the
                            main objective of this forum as this would
                            advance real progress in physics out of the
                            currently stagnant culture</i></b>. While we
                        have not come to realize any broadly-acceptable
                        major break-through out of this forum; we
                        definitely have advanced our <b><i>collective
                            understanding</i></b> that <b><i>space is
                            not empty and the particles are some form of
                            emergent properties of this same universal
                            cosmic field.</i></b> This, in itself, is
                        significant; because the approach of this group
                        to particle physics is significantly different
                        from the mainstream. I definitely see a better
                        future for physics out of this thinking: Space
                        is a real physical field and observables are
                        manifestation (different forms of excited
                        states) of this field.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">      Most of you are aware that our
                        SPIE conference series, which was continuing
                        since 2005, has been abruptly shut down without
                        serious valid justifications (complains from
                        “knowledgeable people” that “bad apples” have
                        joined in). We certainly do not want something
                        similar happen to this web discussion forum due
                        to internal dissentions and internal unethical
                        behavior.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Many thanks for your vigilance and
                        support.</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Respectfully,</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;">Chandra. </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
                        11.0pt;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
                          10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                        style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma ,
                        sans-serif;"> Andrew Worsley [<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                          return false;" target="_blank">mailto:worsley333@gmail.com</a>]<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:49 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> John Duffield<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> Roychoudhuri, Chandra; ANDREW WORSLEY<br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: Andrew Worsley, light and
                        particles group</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,</p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Could be a coincidence, but
                          some damn troll from the discussion group
                          (called Vladimir) has screwed up my email
                          which I have had problem free for the last 20
                          years- and my computer is now going
                          suspiciously slow.</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at
                          7:44 PM, John Duffield <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
                            onclick="parent.window.location.href='johnduffield@btconnect.com';
                            return false;" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
                          wrote:</p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Chandra: </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Please can you
                                add Andrew Worsley to the nature of
                                light and particles group. I’ve met him
                                personally, and think he has a valuable
                                contribution to make. </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Apologies if
                                you’ve already done this, but Andrew
                                tells me he’s received a <i>blocked by
                                  moderator</i> message. </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>John Duffield</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>7 Gleneagles
                                Avenue</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Poole</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>BH14 9LJ</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>UK</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                                rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:
                                rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div style="border: none;border-top: solid
                                rgb(225,225,225) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt
                                0.0in 0.0in 0.0in;">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John
                                  Duffield [mailto:<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='johnduffield@btconnect.com';
                                    return false;" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>]<br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b> 09 January 2017 08:34<br>
                                  <b>To:</b> 'Roychoudhuri, Chandra'
                                  <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu';
                                    return false;" target="_blank">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>><br>
                                  <b>Cc:</b> 'ANDREW WORSLEY' <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk';
                                    return false;" target="_blank">member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk</a>>;
                                  'John Williamson' <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk';
                                    return false;" target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>;
                                  'Martin Van Der Mark' <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:martinvandermark1@gmail.com"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='martinvandermark1@gmail.com';
                                    return false;" target="_blank">martinvandermark1@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b> Andrew Worsley, light
                                  and particles group</p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Chandra: </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Please can you
                                add Andrew Worsley (<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                                  onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                                  return false;" target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>)
                                to the nature of light and particles
                                group. I’ve met him personally, and
                                think he has a valuable contribution to
                                make. He has described the electron as
                                being what you might call a quantum
                                harmonic structure.  The electron in an
                                orbital is described by spherical
                                harmonics, the electron itself might be
                                described by spherical (or toroidal)
                                harmonics. </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards</span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>JohnD</span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
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