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<p><font size="-2">Hi Al,</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">I have to remind you that the object which I say
to be a photon was not detected by the photoelectric effect but
by pair production. The kinematic parameters of the electron-
positron pair were precisely determined by observing their path
in a magnetic field. This determination yielded the energy, the
momentum, and the point of conversion and so the exact path of
this photon. And, as I wrote, the energy of the pair reproduced
the energy of the electron which originally caused the photon,
with an accuracy of few percent. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">Pair production is a localized and short-time
process in which no other particles than these three are involved.
It is not possible from this mechanism that energy from several
photons or energy from the environment is collected. And even if
that should happen then one should observe pairs with an energy
which exceeds the maximum energy available from the original
electron source. Which was clearly not the case.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">This experiment was performed to check the
angular distribution of the Proton-Compton effect at very small
angles. The fact of very small angles ensured that the
interaction of the photon with the proton caused an extremely
small alteration of the energy of the photon. The angles of the
photons after the scattering had to follow a distribution which
is theoretically given (it is the Optical Theorem). So, any
unexpected influences in the detection process of the photon would
have spoiled this distribution. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">I am asking you and all, which further facts and
results would be needed to convince everyone that this "photon"
was a well defined object and not a kind of a milky wave. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">Regarding de Broglie's pilot wave you are right
that he was lacking a particle model to back this idea. But I
think that these days we know appropriate models, at least my
particle model is in my view able to support this idea.</font></p>
<p><font size="-2">Ciao, Albrecht<br>
<br>
</font></p>
<font size="-2"></font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="-2">Am 03.02.2017 um 19:18
schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-8a7cd308-6eb3-4e72-96ee-2fc12bc570e0-1486145925212@3capp-webde-bs39"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi Albrecht:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Well, I have lots of problems; rather formal logic
reveals lots of problems of which I am aware of some of
them. To start the 'photon' creation event offers no way of
checking what is actually created. Your claim is that the
balance between bremstrahlung from the electrons and pair
creation implies that the transfer had to happen by means of
packaged E&M energy. But, it could just be a
coincidence that the measured energy levels matched (within
whatever tolerance your setup was subject to) while lots of
off-beam energy was also involved in a way which was not
(could not) be measured. Or, it could have been the the
bremstrahlung was effectivy "needle raadition" (a classical
solution to Max's Eqs.); etc. etc. In the end, (or
beginning) whatever E&M interaction was involved cannot
be observed except by means of the photo electric effect,
and that process hides as much as it reveals.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>DeBroglie's ideas as he presented them suffer from a lack
of molel for the source of pilot waves. An SED
interpretation as a residue of outgoing radiation from all
other charges in the universe renders the story credible,
however. See my old Found. of Phys. Lett article.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, Al</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
03. Februar 2017 um 17:48 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Photon Structure</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hi Al,
hi John Hodge,</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">The
question of a photon as a corpuscle can be
answered in a positive sense. There are
measurements which give us constraints.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">One is
the experiment of my thesis done in a high energy
laboratory. We have created photons by stopping
electrons. These photons made a flight of about 3
meters through the air and were then detected by
pair production in a thin layer of metal. The
energy of the pair could be precisely measured. It
reflected the energy used in the creation process.
So, there was an object flying from the source to
the (pair-)detector which carried a well defined
energy. And notice that the pair production
process cannot collect EM energy until a certain
amount is achieved. No, it is one single event
going on with one object. This object is
conventionally called "photon". </font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Next
question for the particle wave problem: How can
this corpuscle "photon" cause interference
patterns? The answer is not difficult if we follow
the original idea of de Broglie: This corpuscle
"photon" is accompanied by an alternating field
which causes the interference. And how is this
field created? I think there is no other way then
to assume that the photon has a pair of electric
charges inside. This pair is in permanent motion
and causes the alternating field; and causes so
during the motion of the photon a wave. </font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Any
problems with this?</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Albrecht</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">Am 03.02.2017 um 06:22
schrieb Hodge John:</font></div>
<blockquote>
<pre>Experiment has rejected wave models of light.
Know? By a simulation that posits the structure that agrees with experiment such as photon diffraction and interference.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMAjKk6k6-k" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMAjKk6k6-k</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1603" target="_blank">http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=1603</a>
Hodge
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/2/17, <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" onclick="parent.window.location.href='af.kracklauer@web.de'; return false;" target="_blank">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" onclick="parent.window.location.href='af.kracklauer@web.de'; return false;" target="_blank"><af.kracklauer@web.de></a> wrote:
Subject: Re: [General] Photon Structure
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org'; return false;" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>
Cc: "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'" <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org'; return false;" target="_blank"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>
Date: Thursday, February 2, 2017, 6:58 PM
Challenge
for those seeking to fathom the structure of
"photons": How will a candidate theory of the
photon structure ever be verified? This is a problem
insofar as the best that can be done is to consider the
result of measurement, which will then be an intrinsic part
of the result. It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE to observe what
went on behind the measurement----thus it can never be
known! Therefore, photons are hypothetical entities built
on the result of interacting by means of E&M (something)
using "photo electrons", which are countably
discrete giving the impression that, whatever made them flow
was also discrete---an unjustified jump in logic!
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 02. Februar 2017 um 20:33
Uhr
Von: "John Macken"
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john@macken.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='john@macken.com'; return false;" target="_blank"><john@macken.com></a>
An: "'ANDREW WORSLEY'"
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk" onclick="parent.window.location.href='member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk'; return false;" target="_blank"><member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk></a>, "'Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion'"
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org'; return false;" target="_blank"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>
Betreff: Re: [General] Photon Structure
Andrew, Richard, Chip and John
D.
The discussion has turned to
whether photons possess discrete packages of energy or are
quantized waves with no concentration of energy in a small
volume. My position is: Photons are quantized waves
propagating in the quantum mechanical vacuum energy of
spacetime.
This is too big a subject to
be covered in one post, so I will lay out the background
information in this post, then build on this in other
posts. To explain my position I will first quote from my
paper titled Energetic Spacetime: The New Aether.
“Photons are usually described
as possessing “wave-particle duality”. However, this
phrase is just a name given to something that we do not
understand. The essence of a wave is that it is an
oscillating disturbance with a definable wavelength and
distributed over a substantial volume. A wave transfers
liner momentum and some waves are capable of transferring
angular momentum. Any wave disturbs the medium through which
it is propagating such that energy is being converted
between different forms.
The essence of a particle is
that it is a single unit that differs from its surroundings.
A fundamental particle is usually assumed to be energy
concentrated at a point with no internal structure. A point
particle or even a Planck length vibrating string is
incapable of possessing ħ of angular momentum as a
conceptually understandable physical rotation. The implied
infinite energy density of a point particle also defies a
physical explanation. Saying a photon has “wave-particle
duality” is like saying that it has “top-bottom
duality”. These are contradictory properties which cannot
be equal partners. A photon must either be a particle that
somehow exhibits wave properties or a wave that is somehow
quantized so that it exhibits particle properties.”
Skipping forward in this
paper, the question of quantization is addressed. This is
an important concept because a wave can appear to have
particle-like properties if the wave is quantized. The
following is a section titled “Strong Quantization” from
the paper Energetic Spacetime: The New
Aether.
“It is often said that photons
possess quantized energy of E = ħω. However,
we will examine the limits of this quantization. Suppose
that we make an analogy to the equivalence principle having
a “strong” and a “weak” definition. Similarly, the
proposal is made that there is a “strong” and “weak”
definition of quantization. A strong definition of
quantization would imply that only integer multiples of the
fundamental unit are allowed. For example, if energy met the
strong definition of quantization, then energy would only
came in discrete units such as integer multiples of 1 eV.
Photons would only come in discrete frequencies which would
be integer multiples of the universal fundamental frequency
associated with the universal unit of quantized energy.
Obviously energy and frequency are not quantized according
to the “strong” definition. Instead, a photon’s energy
is only weakly quantized. All of a photon’s energy is
transferred when it is absorbed, but a photon can possess
any energy up to Planck energy. The same photon has
different energy when viewed from different frames of
reference.
Compare this to angular momentum
which meets the definition of strong quantization. Angular
momentum only comes in discrete units. All angular momentum
in the universe only comes in integer multiples of ½ ħ.
This is obvious with fermions and bosons, but a more
revealing example can be made using a carbon monoxide
molecule (CO) isolated in a vacuum. An isolated CO molecule
can only possess integer multiples of ħ angular
momentum. This translates into the CO molecule only being
able to rotate at discrete frequencies which are integer
multiples of its fundamental rotational frequency of 115
GHz. This meets the definition of strong quantization. For
another example, take a photon that is part of the cosmic
microwave background. Over the age of the universe this
photon has lost most of its energy. However, the photon has
kept 100% of its angular momentum. Angular momentum has
strong quantization; energy has weak quantization.
It is proposed that all
quantization in the universe is ultimately traceable to
angular momentum being strongly quantized. When a photon is
absorbed by an atom, it transfers 100% of its angular
momentum to the atom. All the photon’s energy is also
transferred to the atom, but that is just a byproduct of
transferring its ħ unit of quantized angular
momentum. The amount of energy transferred from the photon
to the atom depends on the frame of reference of the atom.
However, the angular momentum transferred is independent of
the frame of reference.”
In future posts I will develop
this idea and show that the particle-like properties of a
photon can be explained by a wave that possesses quantized
angular momentum.
John M.
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