<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
color:black;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Welcome, colleagues!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">More you can clearly identify and articulate contradictions, in concepts, math and explanations, closer you will be on the way to define the “problems”; and hence eventually find solutions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 5:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Albrecht Instantaneous gravity force<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think this illustrates another “strangeness” of main-stream QM thought.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">First, it is widely accepted that the “shape” of the vector field changes for a relativistic moving charged particle. The popular math shows the field vector pointing at the advanced position, the place where the particle will be. But
if photons don’t curve, but rather travel in a straight line, then clearly photons cannot be the mediator of this relativistic charge field. We can’t have it both ways.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 2:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Albrecht Instantaneous gravity force<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>What I know about retarded potentials exactly corroborates my point<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The potential is retarded yes but go backwards from the 4Oklock location of the advancing lower particle you will see the force vector no longer goes through the orbit center. It comes from the retarded position of the source, which was at 12Oclock.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Does retarded potential not mean one must calculate the potential from the point sources were in the past ? I'm reading Jackson p468 right now<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Its a typical formula first section with no explanation of what they mean, but it is clear that my diagram is non relativistic and that may be my error.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>However a very slow moving particle very far away moving transversely would have almost no relativistic correction and still be seen. So in this case would the observer ( big circle) not see the source at the retarded past position. And if that is the case
would he not "see" the force vector from the retarded past position?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><img border="0" width="319" height="385" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01D282FA.5E9F0380"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And that is exactly Flanders Argument regarding the motion of the sun relative to an observer on the earth. The EM force vector points to the retarded position not the current position. But gravity orbits are calculated as though the force vector points
to the actual Now position. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In my diagram the past upper particle is at 12Oclock and when the Light(EM INFLUENCE) gets to the lower particle at 4 Oclock it sees the upper particle at its past 12O'clock position. Thus the force vector is no longer radially symmetric but has a tangential
component. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>How your dual orbiting charge model traveling at "c" works out I do not know. But if the E filed is squeezed in the velocity direction then
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><img border="0" width="190" height="226" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01D282FA.5E9F0380">then the two particles would never influence each other since the flat plane of E fileds would rotate and always miss the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>other particle. So what creates the field holding the particles in orbit? <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p>best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/8/2017 12:34 PM, Albrecht Giese wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Hi!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>No, it is not the point that 'Albrecht has some other ideas'. But it is the situation solved by the treatment of "retarded potential" as I have already written. This is classical Main Stream physics.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I can only repeat to refer to textbooks about retarded potential which is besides my favourite French the well known Landau&Lifschitz about the so called Lienard-Wiechert potential (and I think also in Jackson). From that calculation follows that the forces
arrive in a radial direction at the particles / charges and so there is no tangential component.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Van Flanders has obviously overlooked this fact which is - to say it again - standard classical physics.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best, Albrecht<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 08.02.2017 um 20:02 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>I agree one must integrate the effect, but since the instantaneous snapshot shown below generate a small but not zero tangential force along the trajectory if you rotate the entire diagram by an infinitesimal angle the same force will move around the cycle
in the same direction , so there would be no cancellation but an accumulation of the tangential force build up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I believe the only way to avoid the problem is to have an attractive force at the center so only radial force fields are encountered, or have infinite propagation speed which is what TOm Vam Flandern's paper tried to prove.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Albrecht has some other ideas<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best, wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/5/2017 5:26 PM, <a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Hey Wolf:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The actual force at any reception point is not just that from one position of the sending charge, but an integral over all positions of the sending charge intersecting the
past light cone of the sender. I don't know what the answer is and I'm too tired at the moment to do the math. Looks too like it might be very involved! Cone intersecting a spiral, etc. 3/4-D, lots of unknown integrals....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Also, a positron-electron pair should be essentiall invisible as it is charge nutral, i.e., won't interact with our only agent of "seeing." Except ...??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">---Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space" name="quote">
<div style="margin-bottom:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Gesendet:</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Sonntag, 05. Februar 2017 um 21:47 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Wolfgang Baer" <a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Albrecht Instantaneous gravity force<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Albrecht:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I do not see how your example with electric forces applies to the gravitational example.in van Flanders 1998 paper , or for that matter to your model of an elementary
particle. Has anyone ever seen positron electron orbiting each other?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Consider two particles instantly at 10 and 6 Oclock send out a force that propagates radially from their instantaneous position<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><img border="0" width="392" height="295" id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D282FA.5E9F0380"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">A time of flight delay caused by field propagating spherically to reach the other particle after it has moved around the orbit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
This means there is an angle between the purely radial from orbit center direction by an angle<span style="font-size:18.0pt"> Θ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">This angle will give a force vector along the orbit path would this not change the momentum??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The only way I know Bohr atom works is because the proton is at the center of the electron orbit so no matter where the electron moves around the orbit it will experience
a radial only force.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I believe van Flanders 1998 paper claims that ephemerus data was calculated assuming instantaneous gravity force projection and which seem to match visual position
when corrected for the time delay between sources and observer. And if the time delay for gravity were introduced it would show up in orbit corrections not actually seen. Is he making a mistake?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Wolf<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white">Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">On 1/31/2017 1:35 PM, Albrecht Giese wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Wolf,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">regarding the
<i>speed of gravitational influence</i>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I have looked into the mentioned paper of Van Flanders in 1998 and particularly his arguments why gravitational influences must propagate instantly, not at the speed
of light. I do not follow his arguments because he has overlooked an important point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">His argument (also that one cited from Eddington) is: If the speed of gravitational propagation is limited (e.g. to c) then in the case of two celestial bodies each
body would not see the other one at its actual position but at a past position. This would destroy the conservation of momentum. - However, this is not the case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">One simple example to see that this argument cannot be true. We can imagine a set up of two
<i>massive </i>bodies which orbit each other and which are bound to each other by an electrical force; this is easily possible by putting an appropriate electrical charge of different sign onto both bodies. Also the electrical force is, as we know, restricted
to the speed of light. But it is very clear that this set up would keep the momentum of both bodies and would steadily move in a stable way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">How does this work? The phenomenon is the so called "retarded potential". It has the effect that, even though both charges are seen at a past position by the other
charge, the force vector points to the <i>actual </i>position of the other one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">If we now assume that gravity is a force (independent of what Einstein talks about curvature of space), then the same rules of retarded potential apply to gravity.
And so there is no change of momentum even though the effect of gravity is limited to the speed of light.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Does this provide some clarification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Am 22.01.2017 um 20:52 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Al:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I think the "where is the evidence" argument is no longer powerful because so many things happening in physics have little or even contradictory evidence. I'm just
reading Van Flanders 1998 "the speed of gravity" Physics Letters A250 1-11 which makes a good case for gravity influences influences moving instantly - not at the speed of light.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">However I like your idea of only interactions - in fact I'm developing a theory along those lines by modeling nothing as an empty page and requiring material formatting
of the page as an explicit field of space cells. This still allows fields as a shortcut for calculating interactions from multiple distant cells, but nothing remains nothing, if there are no cells to host interactions i.e. sources and sinks, then there is
no influence propagating. It takes some material to propagate influences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I would be very curious to read how your "one way out" formulates this problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">One of my hang ups is that any visualization of material basis for space implies a kind of permanent structural relationship between sources and sinks - but objects
do seem to move fairly fluidly from place to place. Do sources and sinks move in your vision, If so what do they move in?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Wolf<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white">Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">On 1/21/2017 10:20 PM,
<a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Challenge for proponents of fields (all kinds: E&M, Gravity, Tension, whatever): If the universe is finite, then the field sources on the outer rind
will be pumping field energy into the void, the material universe would be cooling down, etc. So, where is the evidence for such? If the universe is finite but topologically closed, then it will have certain "Betti numbers" for various forms which will be
closed, (see: algebraic topology texts), again there should be some observable consequence from the these closed forms. So (again) where's the evidence? Granted, current tech may not be up to the task; but that would imply that field theories have to be
reduced in status to be virtually religion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">One way out: there are no fields, but interactions between sources and sinks. Where one is missing, there's nothing! In particular nothing emminating
from sources without regard for target-like sinks. Advantage: the math works out without internal contradictions (divergencies, etc.). Another advantage: from this viewpoint, there are no waves, and associated divergencies. They are just cocek the ptual
Fourier components for the interactions. Useful, but strictly hypothetical. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">For what it's worth, Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt">
<div style="margin-bottom:7.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Gesendet:</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Sonntag, 22. Januar 2017 um 04:19 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Roychoudhuri, Chandra" <a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank">
<chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">
<general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300">John M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300">I am not the right person to give you decisive answers as I have not followed the math relevant to the origin of Gravitational Wave (GW) and its spontaneous propagation.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> First, you can find out the current state of technology in the measuring precision of (i) fringe fraction, F (i.e., 180-degree/F) vs. (i) polarization angle fraction F (90-degree/F). As I recall, much better
than thousandth of a fringe-shift is now measurable. I do not know what is the current best value of F for polarization measurement. You can look up Gravitational Faraday Effect also. I did “poke my nose” there in the past; but could not find anything measurable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> Second, more fundamental physics. All material based waves and light waves require a continuous tension field that steadily gets pushed away from the original site of perturbation induced on the field; provided
the perturbation does not exceed the restoration linearity condition (“Young’s Modulus”, or equivalent). For, stretched material string, the mechanical tension is T and the restoration force is the “inertial mass” “Sigma” per unit length; then string-wave
v-squared =T/Sigma. For light, c-squared = Epsilon-inverse/Mu. Epsilon-inverse is the electric tension and Mu is the magnetic restoration force. These analogies are explained in some of my papers; I have sent earlier.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> Now my very basic question for the experts in GW:
<b><i>How do you define the GW-tension field?</i></b> All spontaneously propagating waves require a steady and continuous tension field in which a suitable perturbation triggers the original wave. What is the velocity of GW and what are the corresponding tension
and restoration parameters? If you say, it is the same velocity as “c”, for the EM wave; then
<b><i>we have some serious confusion to resolve</i></b>. Are the tension and restoration parameters same as those for EM waves? Then, why should we call it GW; instead of pulsed EM waves? Or,
<b><i>are the two parameters really physically different for GW</i></b>(should be); but GW-velocity number just happens to coincide with “c”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> I took Einstein’s explanation for the origin of Gravity as the “Curvature of Space” literally, as the Potential Gradient generated around any assembly of Baryonic Particles. So, a pair of rotating binary stars
will generate a periodically oscillating potential gradient. Whatever the value of the effective gravity of a “stationary” binary star around earth is; it would be oscillating slightly when the “stationary” binary stars start rotating around themselves. But,
this is not Gravity Wave to me. It is a phenomenon of “locally” changing value of the “curvature of space”; not a passing by wave. Imagine the typical “trampoline demo” for Einsteinian gravity with a heavy iron ball at the depressed center. If you periodically
magnetically attract the iron ball to effectively reduce the trampoline curvature; we are not generating propagating GW; we are periodically changing the local “curvature”!
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> These comments should give you some pragmatic “food for thought”!
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#003300"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Macken<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">Chandra,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">I have one quick question for you and the group to consider. You mention that Maxwell connected the speed of light to the properties of space (epsilon and mu). To explain my question, I first have to give some background which is
accomplished by quoting a short section of the previously attached paper. </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">“Gravitational waves (GWs) propagate in the medium of spacetime. They are transverse quadrupole waves which slightly distort the “fabric of space”. For example, a GW propagating in the “Z” direction would cause a sphere made
from baryonic matter such as metal to become an oscillating ellipsoid. When the sphere expands in the X direction it contracts in the Y direction and vice versa. The GW produces: 1) no change in the total volume of the oscillating sphere 2) no change in the
rate of time, 3) no displacement of the center of mass of the oscillating sphere.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Point #3 addresses an important point. If there are two isolated masses such as two LIGO interferometer mirrors suspended by wires [17], the passage of a GW does not move the mirror’s center of mass. Instead of the mirrors physically
moving, the GW changes the properties of spacetime producing a redshift and a blue shift on LIGO’s laser beams. This difference in wavelength is detected by the interferometer as a fringe shift…”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">With this introduction, the questions are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;background:white">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#20188C">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">Should a GW effect the permeability and permittivity of free space?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;background:white">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#20188C">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">Should the two orthogonal polarizations of a GW produce opposite effects on the permeability and permittivity of free space?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;background:white">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">3.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#20188C">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#20188C">Since epsilon and mu determine the speed of light, should a GW produce a different effect on the two orthogonal polarizations of light?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">If the answer to question #3 is yes, then this suggests that it should be possible to detect GWs by monitoring the polarization of a laser beam. It is vastly simpler to detect a slight difference in the polarization of a single
beam of light than it is to detect the same optical shift between two arms of an interferometer. The interferometer encounters vibration noise to a much greater degree than is encountered in the polarization of a single laser beam. Also, multiple laser beams
could identify the direction of the GW much better than an interferometer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">Perhaps this is off the subject of the discussion group. But it is an example of a subject which might be low hanging fruit that could make a historic contribution to physics. In the past I have made the suggestion that GWs produce
a polarization effect, but this suggestion is lacking additional insight and analysis to be taken seriously. Is there anyone in this group with the expertise to contribute to this study?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">John M. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366">“Gravitational waves indicate vacuum energy exists”, paper by John Macken</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366">John M.: Thanks for attaching your paper.
<b><i>The title clearly indicates that we really are in basic agreement. The cosmic space has physical properties.</i></b> I have expressed my views a bit differently, that the cosmic space is a
<b><i>stationary </i></b>Complex Tension Filed (CTF), <b><i>holding 100% of the cosmic energy</i></b> in the attached papers and in my book, “Causal Physics”.
<b><i>If the so-called vacuous cosmic space and the CTF were not inseparable, the velocity of light would have been different through different regions of the cosmic space</i></b>!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> I just do not like to continue to use the word “vacuum” because, in the English language, it has acquired a very different meaning (“nothing”) for absolute majority of people over many centuries. It is better
not to confuse common people by asserting new meanings on very old and very well established words.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> Further, in your support, the quantitative values of at least two physical properties,</span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366">Epsilon & Mu, of the comic space have already presented as quantified properties by Maxwell around 1867 through his wave equation. Recall (c-squared)=(1/Epsilon.Mu). These properties of the cosmic space were already
quantified before Maxwell by the early developers of electrostatics and magneto statics.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> I assume that you are suggesting us that we need to postulate and quantify other physical properties possessed by this cosmic space (<b><i>Maxwellian or Faraday Tension Field</i></b>?), so that the “emergent
dynamic particles” out of this cosmic space would display all the properties we have already been measuring for well over a century.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> However, I disagree, as of now, that cosmic space is “space-time” four dimensional. Because, the “running time” is not a measurable physical parameter of any physical entity that we know of in this universe.
So, I assert that the “running time” cannot be altered by any physical process. <b>
<i>Humans have smartly derived the concept of “running time” using various kinds of harmonic oscillators and/or periodic motions.</i></b> We can alter the frequency of a physical oscillator by changing its physical environment. Of course, this is my personal
perception, <b><i>not supported by the entire group</i></b>. But, that is precisely the purpose of this free and honest discussions so we can learn from each other. As my understanding evolves; I might change back my mind and accept space as four- or even
thirteen-dimensional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#993366">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Macken<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 1:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'; 'Andrew Worsley'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'M.A.'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">Dear Chandra and All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">You have said “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">We definitely have advanced our
<b><i>collective understanding</i></b> that <b><i>space is not empty and the particles are some form of emergent properties of this same universal cosmic field.</i></b></span><span style="color:#20188C">” The idea that space is not an empty void has not been
quantified in any model of spacetime proposed by members of the group. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">I have concentrated in defining and quantifying the properties of the vacuum and the results are presented in the attached paper. This paper analyzes the properties of spacetime encountered by gravitational waves. The conclusion
is that spacetime is a sea of Planck length vacuum fluctuations that oscillate at Planck frequency. This model can be quantified, analyzed and tested. It is shown that this model gives the correct energy for virtual particle formation. It also gives the
correct energy density for black holes, the correct zero point energy density of the universe (about 10<sup>113</sup> J/m<sup>3</sup>) and generates the Friedmann equation for the critical density of the universe (about 10<sup>-26</sup> kg/m<sup>3</sup> =
10<sup>-9</sup> J/m<sup>3</sup>). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">The reason for mentioning this to a group interested in the structure of electrons, photons and electric fields is that the quantifiable properties of spacetime must be incorporated into any particle or field model.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#20188C">John M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Worsley <<a href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com" target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>>; Light & particles. Web discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> M.A. <<a href="mailto:ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu" target="_blank">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] light and particles group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Andrew Worsely: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> This is a platform for ethical, serious and honest discussions on scientific issues that the prevailing mainstream platforms have been shunning. We definitely do not want to sow unsubstantiated distrust within this group.
<b><i>This not a political forum where sophisticated deceptions are highly prized; which has been intellectualized as “post-truth”!</i></b> This is not a “post-truth” forum.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> So, please, </span><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#C00000">help us</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#C00000">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">by getting help from computer professionals before repeating any further unsubstantiated accusations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> If you can definitively identify anybody within our group carrying out unethical and destructive activities; obviously, we would bar such persons from this group discussion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear All Participants: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Please be vigilant in maintaining the essential ethics behind this discussion forum – honestly accept or reject others’ opinions; preferably,
<b><i>build upon them. This is the main objective of this forum as this would advance real progress in physics out of the currently stagnant culture</i></b>. While we have not come to realize any broadly-acceptable major break-through out of this forum; we
definitely have advanced our <b><i>collective understanding</i></b> that <b><i>space is not empty and the particles are some form of emergent properties of this same universal cosmic field.</i></b> This, in itself, is significant; because the approach of this
group to particle physics is significantly different from the mainstream. I definitely see a better future for physics out of this thinking: Space is a real physical field and observables are manifestation (different forms of excited states) of this field.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Most of you are aware that our SPIE conference series, which was continuing since 2005, has been abruptly shut down without serious valid justifications (complains from “knowledgeable people” that “bad apples” have joined
in). We certainly do not want something similar happen to this web discussion forum due to internal dissentions and internal unethical behavior.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Many thanks for your vigilance and support.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Respectfully,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chandra. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Andrew Worsley [<a href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:worsley333@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 4:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Duffield<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Roychoudhuri, Chandra; ANDREW WORSLEY<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Andrew Worsley, light and particles group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Could be a coincidence, but some damn troll from the discussion group (called Vladimir) has screwed up my email which I have had problem free for the last 20 years- and my computer is now going suspiciously slow.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Andrew<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 7:44 PM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Chandra: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Please can you add Andrew Worsley to the nature of light and particles group. I’ve met him personally, and think he has a valuable contribution to make.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Apologies if you’ve already done this, but Andrew tells me he’s received a <i>blocked by moderator</i> message.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
John Duffield<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
7 Gleneagles Avenue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Poole<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
BH14 9LJ<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
UK<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b>From:</b> John Duffield [mailto:<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 January 2017 08:34<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Roychoudhuri, Chandra' <<a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'ANDREW WORSLEY' <<a href="mailto:member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk" target="_blank">member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk</a>>; 'John Williamson' <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>; 'Martin Van Der
Mark' <<a href="mailto:martinvandermark1@gmail.com" target="_blank">martinvandermark1@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Andrew Worsley, light and particles group<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Chandra: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Please can you add Andrew Worsley (<a href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com" target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>) to the nature of light and particles group. I’ve met him personally, and think he has a valuable contribution to make. He has described the electron
as being what you might call a quantum harmonic structure. The electron in an orbital is described by spherical harmonics, the electron itself might be described by spherical (or toroidal) harmonics.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
JohnD<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion
List at <a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>
<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">
Click here to unsubscribe </a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank">phys@a-giese.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white">
<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<hr size="1" width="99%" noshade="" style="color:#909090" align="center">
</span></div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 11.25pt 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1029" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast
logo"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3D4D5A">Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.<br>
<a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><br>
_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> <a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">
Click here to unsubscribe </a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="1" width="99%" noshade="" style="color:#909090" align="center">
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 11.25pt 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1031" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3D4D5A">Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
<br>
<a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus">www.avast.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>