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    <p>Wolf,</p>
    <p>two points about this:</p>
    <p>1.) By the normal definition of aberration the top part of the
      drawing of van Flanders, Fig. 2, is aberration, i.e. the case if
      the target is moving. If our astronomers look at distant stars
      then theses stars show a periodic displacement / aberration caused
      by the periodic motion of the earth.</p>
    <p>2.) It becomes more and more obvious to me (and I find it really
      surprising) that any kinds of "bullets" show aberration in the
      appropriate situations, but fields (like the electric field and
      also the gravitational field) do not show aberration. - For
      electric fields this is said - and derived - in my textbook about
      relativity.<br>
    </p>
    <p>This has an amazing consequence. As photons do show aberration it
      is obvious that photons are not fields or waves but are bullets. -
      What do you think?</p>
    <p>Best<br>
      Albrecht<br>
      <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 16.02.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Wolfgang
      Baer:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:eb7552ca-5c3c-7bfb-24b0-4b3ab49c2d9a@nascentinc.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <p>Albrecht:</p>
      <p>"The motion of the Earth is of no influence." on page three of
        the Flandern's paper you will find a comparison of the earth vs
        the sun movingsituation</p>
      <p>Flandern claims as shown in figure 2 that view from source
        stationary or observer stationary makes no difference in one
        case it is called aberration in the other time delay, both get
        the same angle and the same apparent optic location <br>
      </p>
      <p>best again</p>
      <p>wolf<br>
      </p>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/14/2017 1:12 PM, Albrecht Giese
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:35616a9c-fa25-4209-b7ec-26b023da0fc8@a-giese.de"
        type="cite">
        <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
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        <p>Wolf,</p>
        <p>it is in fact not necessary to follow Einstein's version of
          SRT. I for myself follow the version of Hendrik Lorentz as it
          is based on known physical facts, not on fictitious
          assumptions about space-time. However there are relativistic
          facts which are obvious and independent of any formal version
          of SRT. That is the contraction of fields and the dilation of
          periodic processes. And these are for sure. The calculations
          according to Lienard-Wiechert are based on these fact to my
          knowledge. At present I have started to follow this derivation
          step by step but will need a bit of time.<br>
        </p>
        <p>Do we indeed see the sun in a position which is about 8
          minutes retarded? From the view of the Earth the Sun can be
          taken as being in a fixed position without making a big
          mistake. But even if the sun would be moving in relation to
          our planetary system that would not matter in this case  The
          point is that the vectors of any fields originating at a
          moving object do not point to (or from) the visible position
          of its source but from the advanced position, where the object
          is when the field is received. </p>
        <p>As far as I understand what you write (or van Flanders
          writes) about the US naval data, these date describe the
          visible position of the sun, so the direction from which the
          photons arrive. That is obviously not a field. And if the
          direction of the gravitational field would be towards the
          retarded position then the orbital speed of the Earth would in
          fact change with time. Which is not the case - But independent
          of this consideration, this case seems particularly simple to
          me. As stated above, from the view of the Earth the Sun can be
          taken as being in a fixed position. With respect to this
          position the Sun has a constant gravitational field in all
          directions. If now the Earth orbits the sun then this steady
          field will reach the Earth as always coming from the centre of
          the sun. The motion of the Earth is of no influence. - The
          interesting case for this problem discussed at other places is
          the one of a double star. If both stars orbit each other then
          the position of one star changes permanently as seen from the
          other star. In that case the direction of the field and the
          propagation speed of the field are of relevance. But also for
          these cases the relativistic calculation seems to show that
          the fields are pointing towards the centre of the orbit
          following the Lienard-Wiechert calculation of potential.<br>
        </p>
        <p>I shall come back here as soon as I am more familiar with
          this case.</p>
        <p>Albrecht<br>
          <br>
        </p>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.02.2017 um 20:30 schrieb
          Wolfgang Baer:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          cite="mid:0460a32c-368f-27e5-9f84-1c875600a1e7@nascentinc.com"
          type="cite">
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          <p>Albrecht:</p>
          <p>I'll admit that I do not follow the consequences of Special
            Relativity Theory (SRT) as it is worked out in the
            Lienard-Wiechert potential. And since I identified at least
            a half dozen  derivations of these results in the internet I
            assume the math is correct. However we have been to the
            Vigier Conference and seen several presentations criticizing
            Special Relativity <br>
          </p>
          <p>So rather than go through a derivation again, which I do
            not doubt,  I'm trying to make sense of the predicted
            results. Its kind of like seeing SRT calculations and coming
            up with the twin paradox. Something is wrong with SRT<br>
          </p>
          <p>The VanFlanders paper ( I can send another copy for anyone
            who needs it) in the paragraph above "3.3 the solar eclipse
            test" clearly claims that experimental data from the
            Astronomical Almanac produced by the US naval observatory
            shows that the earth is attracted to  a point 8.5 min. ahead
            of its optical position. This means the earth is
            gravitationally attracted to where the sun is <i>Now</i>
            not where the sun was when light was emitted.</p>
          <p>The drawing below shows a simple example of how a light
            emitted from a non-relativistic particle ( 30km/sec) at the
            upper past position will not hit a parallel traveling lower
            particle at some distance achieved during the flight time of
            light and therefore  will receive light at an angle pointing
            to the retarded position. For earth orbit (30Km/sec) which
            is 10^4 less than the speed of light relativistic effects
            are 10^-8 , i.e.very very small.compared with Newtonian
            thinking,  but the displacement in 8.5 minutes is 15,300km
            nearly 3 earth diameters offset which should be measurable.<br>
          </p>
          <p>I've just gotten some visitors and need to go, but we are
            questioning SRT and the assumption that gravity may move at
            a different speed. so just citing more SRT derivations is
            not convincing. <br>
          </p>
          <p>Why is My diagram and "Eddington" and Flanders wrong? Is
            Flanders lying about his Ephemeris data and its experimental
            content? <br>
          </p>
          <p>Or are we just so brow beaten by SRT that whatever
            derivations we develop from it must be right? <br>
          </p>
          <p>Got to go</p>
          <p>Wolf<br>
          </p>
          <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baerecht
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/10/2017 12:33 PM, Albrecht
            Giese wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote
            cite="mid:b26e6913-7ce4-42e8-2da3-c9e2b9f2ad58@a-giese.de"
            type="cite">
            <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
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            <p>Hi Wolf, and hi Chip and All,<br>
            </p>
            <p>it is correct that the solution is a relativistic
              calculation. In the figure below, the lower circuit "now"
              gets the field from the direction of the higher (small)
              circuit "now". Not so easily understandable by
              visualisation but theoretically confirmed. It has to do
              with relativistic contraction (of space / fields) and with
              relativistic time synchronization.</p>
            <p>If I look into Jackson, to the mentioned p486 and p487,
              then eq. (14.17) describes (unfortunately only) the
              transverse field. But if in this equation the product
              (kappa*R) is replace by the value given in (14.16) then
              the result does not depend on the retarded position P'. - 
              It would be better to have here the field component for
              the longitudinal direction. But even this is an indication
              that the retarded position has no effect.<br>
            </p>
            <p>Regarding the two charges in my model I assume that both
              charges are getting the field of the respective other
              charge by similar considerations. If we assume that
              charges permanently emit exchange particles for the
              corresponding field following QM in this respect, then
              there are exchange particles leaving the one charge and
              reaching the other one. So there is a field (a binding
              field) at the locations of both charges. - But this
              statement is of course not a precise one and I am going to
              present a detailed calculation taking all this into
              account mathematically.</p>
            <p>And by the way with respect to gravity: This discussion
              which we have started here has kept the physicists busy
              during the entire 19th century (which can be found at
              Wikipedia) The discussion used the arguments of Van
              Flanders, Wolf, and also myself (in the beginning) about
              the influence of retardation to the perspective of the
              gravitational force; but this discussion ended when
              Special Relativity was introduced.</p>
            <p>Best<br>
              Albrecht<br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <br>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.2017 um 21:32 schrieb
              Wolfgang Baer:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote
              cite="mid:d0077ef8-27a4-c466-66dc-35ac309cf91c@nascentinc.com"
              type="cite">
              <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
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              <p>What I know about retarded potentials exactly
                corroborates my point</p>
              <p>The potential is retarded yes but go backwards from the
                4Oklock location of the advancing lower particle you
                will see the force vector no longer goes through the
                orbit center. It comes from the retarded position of the
                source, which was at 12Oclock.</p>
              <p>Does retarded potential not mean one must calculate the
                potential from the point sources were in the past ? I'm
                reading Jackson p468 right now</p>
              <p>Its a typical formula first section with no explanation
                of what they mean, but it is clear that my diagram is
                non relativistic and that may be my error.<br>
              </p>
              <p>However a very slow moving particle very far away
                moving transversely would have almost no relativistic
                correction and still be seen. So in this case would the
                observer ( big circle) not see the source at the
                retarded past position. And if that is the case would he
                not "see" the force vector from the retarded past
                position?<br>
              </p>
              <p><img src="cid:part3.BE401C31.1ACF9628@a-giese.de"
                  alt=""></p>
              <p>And that is exactly Flanders Argument regarding the
                motion of the sun relative to an observer on the earth.
                The EM force vector points to the retarded position not
                the current position. But gravity orbits are calculated
                as though the force vector points to the actual Now
                position. <br>
              </p>
              <p>In my diagram the past upper particle is at 12Oclock
                and when the Light(EM INFLUENCE) gets to the lower
                particle at 4 Oclock it sees the upper particle at its
                past 12O'clock position. Thus the force vector is no
                longer radially symmetric but has a tangential
                component. <br>
              </p>
              <p>How your dual orbiting charge model traveling at "c"
                works out I do not know. But if the E filed is squeezed
                in the velocity direction then <br>
              </p>
              <p><img src="cid:part4.2D0A3B74.E0BD54D7@a-giese.de"
                  alt="">then the two particles would never influence
                each other since the flat plane of E fileds would rotate
                and always miss the</p>
              <p>other particle. So what creates the field holding the
                particles in orbit? <br>
              </p>
              <p>best<br>
              </p>
              <p>wolf<br>
              </p>
              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/8/2017 12:34 PM,
                Albrecht Giese wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:c816e475-f979-9708-efd1-9b5490991f46@a-giese.de"
                type="cite">
                <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                  http-equiv="Content-Type">
                <p>Hi!</p>
                <p>No, it is not the point that 'Albrecht has some other
                  ideas'. But it is the situation solved by the
                  treatment of "retarded potential" as I have already
                  written. This is classical Main Stream physics. <br>
                </p>
                <p>I can only repeat to refer to textbooks about
                  retarded potential which is besides my favourite
                  French the well known Landau&Lifschitz about the
                  so called Lienard-Wiechert potential (and I think also
                  in Jackson). From that calculation follows that the
                  forces arrive in a radial direction at the particles /
                  charges and so there is no tangential component. <br>
                </p>
                <p>Van Flanders has obviously overlooked this fact which
                  is - to say it again - standard classical physics.</p>
                <p>Best, Albrecht<br>
                </p>
                <br>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 08.02.2017 um 20:02
                  schrieb Wolfgang Baer:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:ddf67d39-119e-0554-1273-7b3f4610e861@nascentinc.com"
                  type="cite">
                  <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                    http-equiv="Content-Type">
                  <p>I agree one must integrate the effect, but since
                    the instantaneous snapshot shown below generate a
                    small but not zero tangential force along the
                    trajectory if you rotate the entire diagram by an
                    infinitesimal angle the same force will move around
                    the cycle in the same direction , so there would be
                    no cancellation but an accumulation of the
                    tangential force build up.</p>
                  <p>I believe the only way to avoid the problem is to
                    have an attractive force at the center so only
                    radial force fields are encountered, or have
                    infinite propagation speed which is what TOm Vam
                    Flandern's paper tried to prove.</p>
                  <p>Albrecht has some other ideas</p>
                  <p>Best, wolf<br>
                  </p>
                  <p><br>
                  </p>
                  <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/5/2017 5:26 PM, <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                      href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-f11d112e-e338-4304-9917-5b7634fc0a8c-1486344379031@3capp-webde-bs15"
                    type="cite">
                    <div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
                      <div>
                        <div>Hey Wolf:</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>The actual force at any reception point is
                          not just that from one position of the sending
                          charge, but an integral over all positions of
                          the sending charge intersecting the past light
                          cone of the sender.  I don't know what the
                          answer is and I'm too tired at the moment to
                          do the math.  Looks too like it might be very
                          involved!  Cone intersecting a spiral, etc. 
                          3/4-D, lots of unknown integrals....</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>Also, a positron-electron pair should be
                          essentiall invisible as it is charge nutral,
                          i.e., won't interact with our only agent of
                          "seeing."  Except ...??</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>---Al</div>
                        <div> 
                          <div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px
                            10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px;
                            border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap:
                            break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
                            <div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
                              05. Februar 2017 um 21:47 Uhr<br>
                              <b>Von:</b> "Wolfgang Baer" <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a><br>
                              <b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                              <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Albrecht
                              Instantaneous gravity force</div>
                            <div name="quoted-content">
                              <div style="background-color:
                                rgb(255,255,255);">
                                <p>Albrecht:</p>
                                <p>I do not see how your example with
                                  electric forces applies to the
                                  gravitational example.in van Flanders
                                  1998 paper , or for that matter to
                                  your model of an elementary particle.
                                  Has anyone ever seen positron electron
                                  orbiting each other?</p>
                                <p> </p>
                                <p>Consider two particles instantly at
                                  10 and 6 Oclock send out a force that
                                  propagates radially from their
                                  instantaneous position</p>
                                <p><img alt=""
                                    src="cid:part10.4C35EB37.4D426C41@a-giese.de"
                                    height="295" width="392"></p>
                                <p>A time of flight delay caused by
                                  field propagating spherically to reach
                                  the other particle after it has moved
                                  around the orbit.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">This means there is
                                  an angle between the purely radial
                                  from orbit center direction by an
                                  angle<span style="font-size: 18.0pt;">
                                    Θ</span></p>
                                <p> </p>
                                <p>This angle will give a force vector
                                  along the orbit path would this not
                                  change the momentum??</p>
                                <p>The only way I know Bohr atom works
                                  is because the proton is at the center
                                  of the electron orbit so no matter
                                  where the electron moves around the
                                  orbit it will experience a radial only
                                  force.</p>
                                <p>I believe van Flanders 1998 paper
                                  claims that ephemerus  data was
                                  calculated assuming instantaneous
                                  gravity force projection and which
                                  seem to match visual position when
                                  corrected for the time delay between
                                  sources and observer. And if the time
                                  delay for gravity were introduced it
                                  would show up in orbit corrections not
                                  actually seen.   Is he making a
                                  mistake?</p>
                                <p>best,</p>
                                <p>Wolf</p>
                                <pre class="moz-signature">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='wolf@NascentInc.com'; return false;" target="_blank">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
                                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                  1/31/2017 1:35 PM, Albrecht Giese
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <blockquote>
                                  <p>Wolf,</p>
                                  <p>regarding the <i>speed of
                                      gravitational influence</i>:</p>
                                  <p>I have looked into the mentioned
                                    paper of Van Flanders in 1998 and
                                    particularly his arguments why
                                    gravitational influences must
                                    propagate instantly, not at the
                                    speed of light. I do not follow his
                                    arguments because he has overlooked
                                    an important point.</p>
                                  <p>His argument (also that one cited
                                    from Eddington) is: If the speed of
                                    gravitational propagation is limited
                                    (e.g. to c) then in the case of two
                                    celestial bodies each body would not
                                    see the other one at its actual 
                                    position but at a past position.
                                    This would destroy the conservation
                                    of momentum. -  However, this is not
                                    the case.</p>
                                  <p>One simple example to see that this
                                    argument cannot be true. We can
                                    imagine a set up of two <i>massive
                                    </i>bodies which orbit each other
                                    and which are bound to each other by
                                    an electrical force; this is easily
                                    possible by putting an appropriate
                                    electrical charge of different sign
                                    onto both bodies. Also the
                                    electrical force is, as we know,
                                    restricted to the speed of light.
                                    But it is very clear that this set
                                    up would keep the momentum of both
                                    bodies and would steadily move in a
                                    stable way.</p>
                                  <p>How does this work? The phenomenon
                                    is the so called "retarded
                                    potential". It has the effect that,
                                    even though both charges are seen at
                                    a past position by the other charge,
                                    the force vector points to the <i>actual
                                    </i>position of the other one.</p>
                                  <p>If we now assume that gravity is a
                                    force (independent of what Einstein
                                    talks about curvature of space),
                                    then the same rules of retarded
                                    potential apply to gravity. And so
                                    there is no change of momentum even
                                    though the effect of gravity is
                                    limited to the speed of light.</p>
                                  <p>Does this provide some
                                    clarification?</p>
                                  <p>Albrecht</p>
                                   
                                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                    22.01.2017 um 20:52 schrieb Wolfgang
                                    Baer:</div>
                                  <blockquote>
                                    <p>Al:</p>
                                    <p>I think the "where is the
                                      evidence" argument is no longer
                                      powerful because so many things
                                      happening in physics have little
                                      or even contradictory evidence.
                                      I'm just reading Van Flanders 1998
                                      "the speed of gravity" Physics
                                      Letters A250 1-11 which makes a
                                      good case for gravity influences
                                      influences moving instantly - not
                                      at the speed of light.</p>
                                    <p>However I like your idea of only
                                      interactions - in fact I'm
                                      developing a theory along those
                                      lines by modeling nothing as an
                                      empty page and requiring material
                                      formatting of the page as an
                                      explicit field of space cells.
                                      This still allows fields as a
                                      shortcut for calculating 
                                      interactions from multiple distant
                                      cells, but nothing remains
                                      nothing, if there are no cells to
                                      host interactions i.e. sources and
                                      sinks, then there is no influence
                                      propagating. It takes some
                                      material to propagate influences.</p>
                                    <p>I would be very curious to read
                                      how your "one way out" formulates
                                      this problem.</p>
                                    <p>One of my hang ups is that any
                                      visualization of material basis
                                      for space implies a kind of
                                      permanent structural relationship
                                      between sources and sinks - but
                                      objects do seem to move fairly
                                      fluidly from place to place. Do
                                      sources and sinks move in your
                                      vision, If so what do they move
                                      in?</p>
                                    <p>best,</p>
                                    <p>Wolf</p>
                                    <pre class="moz-signature">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='wolf@NascentInc.com'; return false;" target="_blank">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
                                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                      1/21/2017 10:20 PM, <a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
                                        onclick="parent.window.location.href='af.kracklauer@web.de';
                                        return false;" target="_blank">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>
                                      wrote:</div>
                                    <blockquote>
                                      <div style="font-family:
                                        Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>Challenge for proponents
                                            of fields (all kinds:
                                            E&M, Gravity, Tension,
                                            whatever):  If the universe
                                            is finite, then the field
                                            sources on the outer rind
                                            will be pumping field energy
                                            into the void, the material
                                            universe would be cooling
                                            down, etc. So, where is the
                                            evidence for such?  If the
                                            universe is finite but
                                            topologically closed, then
                                            it will have certain "Betti
                                            numbers" for various forms
                                            which will be closed, (see:
                                            algebraic topology texts),
                                            again there should be some
                                            observable consequence from
                                            the these closed forms.  So
                                            (again) where's the
                                            evidence?   Granted, current
                                            tech may not be up to the
                                            task; but that would imply
                                            that field theories have to
                                            be reduced in status to be
                                            virtually religion.</div>
                                          <div> </div>
                                          <div>One way out:  there are
                                            no fields, but interactions
                                            between sources and sinks. 
                                            Where one is missing,
                                            there's nothing!  In
                                            particular nothing
                                            emminating from sources
                                            without regard for
                                            target-like sinks. 
                                            Advantage: the math works
                                            out without internal
                                            contradictions
                                            (divergencies, etc.). 
                                            Another advantage: from this
                                            viewpoint, there are no
                                            waves, and associated
                                            divergencies.  They are just
                                            cocek the ptual Fourier
                                            components for the
                                            interactions.  Useful, but
                                            strictly hypothetical. </div>
                                          <div> </div>
                                          <div>For what it's worth, Al</div>
                                          <div> 
                                            <div style="margin: 10.0px
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                                              <div style="margin: 0 0
                                                10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
                                                22. Januar 2017 um 04:19
                                                Uhr<br>
                                                <b>Von:</b> "Roychoudhuri,
                                                Chandra" <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                                  href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu';
                                                  return false;"
                                                  target="_blank"><chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu></a><br>
                                                <b>An:</b> "Nature of
                                                Light and Particles -
                                                General Discussion" <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                                  href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                                                  return false;"
                                                  target="_blank"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
                                                <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                                [General] light and
                                                particles group</div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="WordSection1">
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">John M.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">I am not the right person
                                                        to give you
                                                        decisive answers
                                                        as I have not
                                                        followed the
                                                        math relevant to
                                                        the origin of
                                                        Gravitational
                                                        Wave (GW) and
                                                        its spontaneous
                                                        propagation. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">      First, you can find
                                                        out the current
                                                        state of
                                                        technology in
                                                        the measuring
                                                        precision of (i)
                                                        fringe fraction,
                                                        F (i.e.,
                                                        180-degree/F)
                                                        vs. (i)
                                                        polarization
                                                        angle fraction F
                                                        (90-degree/F).
                                                        As I recall,
                                                        much better than
                                                        thousandth of a
                                                        fringe-shift is
                                                        now measurable.
                                                        I do not know
                                                        what is the
                                                        current best
                                                        value of F for
                                                        polarization
                                                        measurement. You
                                                        can look up
                                                        Gravitational
                                                        Faraday Effect
                                                        also. I did
                                                        “poke my nose”
                                                        there in the
                                                        past; but could
                                                        not find
                                                        anything
                                                        measurable.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     Second, more
                                                        fundamental
                                                        physics. All
                                                        material based
                                                        waves and light
                                                        waves require a
                                                        continuous
                                                        tension field
                                                        that steadily
                                                        gets pushed away
                                                        from the
                                                        original site of
                                                        perturbation
                                                        induced on the
                                                        field; provided
                                                        the perturbation
                                                        does not exceed
                                                        the restoration
                                                        linearity
                                                        condition
                                                        (“Young’s
                                                        Modulus”, or
                                                        equivalent).
                                                        For, stretched
                                                        material string,
                                                        the mechanical
                                                        tension is T and
                                                        the restoration
                                                        force is the
                                                        “inertial mass”
                                                        “Sigma” per unit
                                                        length; then
                                                        string-wave
                                                        v-squared
                                                        =T/Sigma. For
                                                        light, c-squared
                                                        =
Epsilon-inverse/Mu. Epsilon-inverse is the electric tension and Mu is
                                                        the magnetic
                                                        restoration
                                                        force. These
                                                        analogies are
                                                        explained in
                                                        some of my
                                                        papers; I have
                                                        sent earlier.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">      Now my very basic
                                                        question for the
                                                        experts in GW: <b><i>How
                                                          do you define
                                                          the GW-tension
                                                          field?</i></b>
                                                        All
                                                        spontaneously
                                                        propagating
                                                        waves require a
                                                        steady and
                                                        continuous
                                                        tension field in
                                                        which a suitable
                                                        perturbation
                                                        triggers the
                                                        original wave.
                                                        What is the
                                                        velocity of GW
                                                        and what are the
                                                        corresponding
                                                        tension and
                                                        restoration
                                                        parameters? If
                                                        you say, it is
                                                        the same
                                                        velocity as “c”,
                                                        for the EM wave;
                                                        then <b><i>we
                                                          have some
                                                          serious
                                                          confusion to
                                                          resolve</i></b>.
                                                        Are the tension
                                                        and restoration
                                                        parameters same
                                                        as those for EM
                                                        waves? Then, why
                                                        should we call
                                                        it GW; instead
                                                        of pulsed EM
                                                        waves? Or, <b><i>are
                                                          the two
                                                          parameters
                                                          really
                                                          physically
                                                          different for
                                                          GW</i></b>(should
                                                        be); but
                                                        GW-velocity
                                                        number just
                                                        happens to
                                                        coincide with
                                                        “c”?</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     I took Einstein’s
                                                        explanation for
                                                        the origin of
                                                        Gravity as the
                                                        “Curvature of
                                                        Space”
                                                        literally, as
                                                        the Potential
                                                        Gradient
                                                        generated around
                                                        any assembly of
                                                        Baryonic
                                                        Particles. So, a
                                                        pair of rotating
                                                        binary stars
                                                        will generate a
                                                        periodically
                                                        oscillating
                                                        potential
                                                        gradient.
                                                        Whatever the
                                                        value of the
                                                        effective
                                                        gravity of a
                                                        “stationary”
                                                        binary star
                                                        around earth is;
                                                        it would be
                                                        oscillating
                                                        slightly when
                                                        the “stationary”
                                                        binary stars
                                                        start rotating
                                                        around
                                                        themselves. But,
                                                        this is not
                                                        Gravity Wave to
                                                        me. It is a
                                                        phenomenon of
                                                        “locally”
                                                        changing value
                                                        of the
                                                        “curvature of
                                                        space”; not a
                                                        passing by wave.
                                                        Imagine the
                                                        typical
                                                        “trampoline
                                                        demo” for
                                                        Einsteinian
                                                        gravity with a
                                                        heavy iron ball
                                                        at the depressed
                                                        center. If you
                                                        periodically
                                                        magnetically
                                                        attract the iron
                                                        ball to
                                                        effectively
                                                        reduce the
                                                        trampoline
                                                        curvature; we
                                                        are not
                                                        generating
                                                        propagating GW;
                                                        we are
                                                        periodically
                                                        changing the
                                                        local
                                                        “curvature”! </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">     These comments should
                                                        give you some
                                                        pragmatic “food
                                                        for thought”! </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(0,51,0);">Chandra.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:
                                                          11.0pt;color:
                                                          rgb(0,51,0);"> </span></a></p>
                                                    <div>
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                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                                          style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
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                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>John
                                                          Macken<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          January 21,
                                                          2017 4:14 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          'Nature of
                                                          Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion'<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re: [General]
                                                          light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Chandra,</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">I
                                                        have one quick
                                                        question for you
                                                        and the group to
                                                        consider.  You
                                                        mention that
                                                        Maxwell
                                                        connected the
                                                        speed of light
                                                        to the
                                                        properties of
                                                        space (epsilon
                                                        and mu). To
                                                        explain my
                                                        question, I
                                                        first have to
                                                        give some
                                                        background which
                                                        is accomplished
                                                        by quoting a
                                                        short section of
                                                        the previously
                                                        attached paper.
                                                      </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                      style="text-align:
                                                      justify;"><span
                                                        style="font-size:
                                                        11.0pt;">“Gravitational
                                                        waves (GWs)
                                                        propagate in the
                                                        medium of
                                                        spacetime. They
                                                        are transverse
                                                        quadrupole waves
                                                        which slightly
                                                        distort the
                                                        “fabric of
                                                        space”.  For
                                                        example, a GW
                                                        propagating in
                                                        the “Z”
                                                        direction would
                                                        cause a sphere
                                                        made from
                                                        baryonic matter
                                                        such as metal to
                                                        become an
                                                        oscillating
                                                        ellipsoid.  When
                                                        the sphere
                                                        expands in the X
                                                        direction it
                                                        contracts in the
                                                        Y direction and
                                                        vice versa. The
                                                        GW produces: 1)
                                                        no change in the
                                                        total volume of
                                                        the oscillating
                                                        sphere 2) no
                                                        change in the
                                                        rate of time, 3)
                                                        no displacement
                                                        of the center of
                                                        mass of the
                                                        oscillating
                                                        sphere. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                      style="text-align:
                                                      justify;"><span
                                                        style="font-size:
                                                        11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Point #3 addresses an important point. If
                                                        there are two
                                                        isolated masses
                                                        such as two LIGO
                                                        interferometer
                                                        mirrors
                                                        suspended by
                                                        wires [17], the
                                                        passage of a GW
                                                        does not move
                                                        the mirror’s
                                                        center of mass. 
                                                        Instead of the
                                                        mirrors
                                                        physically
                                                        moving, the GW
                                                        changes the
                                                        properties of
                                                        spacetime
                                                        producing a
                                                        redshift and a
                                                        blue shift on
                                                        LIGO’s laser
                                                        beams.  This
                                                        difference in
                                                        wavelength is
                                                        detected by the
                                                        interferometer
                                                        as a fringe
                                                        shift…”</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">With
                                                        this
                                                        introduction,
                                                        the questions
                                                        are:</span></p>
                                                    <ol start="1"
                                                      style="margin-top:
                                                      0.0in;" type="1">
                                                      <li
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Should
                                                        a GW effect the
                                                        permeability and
                                                        permittivity of
                                                        free space?</li>
                                                      <li
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Should
                                                        the two
                                                        orthogonal
                                                         polarizations
                                                        of a GW produce
                                                        opposite effects
                                                        on the
                                                        permeability and
                                                        permittivity of
                                                        free space?</li>
                                                      <li
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Since
                                                        epsilon and mu
                                                        determine the
                                                        speed of light,
                                                        should a GW
                                                        produce a
                                                        different effect
                                                        on the two
                                                        orthogonal
                                                        polarizations of
                                                        light?</li>
                                                    </ol>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">If
                                                        the answer to
                                                        question #3 is
                                                        yes, then this
                                                        suggests that it
                                                        should be
                                                        possible to
                                                        detect GWs by
                                                        monitoring the
                                                        polarization of
                                                        a laser beam. 
                                                        It is vastly
                                                        simpler to
                                                        detect a slight
                                                        difference in
                                                        the polarization
                                                        of a single beam
                                                        of light than it
                                                        is to detect the
                                                        same optical
                                                        shift between
                                                        two arms of an
                                                        interferometer. 
                                                        The
                                                        interferometer
                                                        encounters
                                                        vibration noise
                                                        to a much
                                                        greater degree
                                                        than is
                                                        encountered in
                                                        the polarization
                                                        of a single
                                                        laser beam.
                                                         Also, multiple
                                                        laser beams
                                                        could identify
                                                        the direction of
                                                        the GW much
                                                        better than an
                                                        interferometer.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Perhaps
                                                        this is off the
                                                        subject of the
                                                        discussion
                                                        group. But it is
                                                        an example of a
                                                        subject which
                                                        might be low
                                                        hanging fruit
                                                        that could make
                                                        a historic
                                                        contribution to
                                                        physics.  In the
                                                        past I have made
                                                        the suggestion
                                                        that GWs produce
                                                        a polarization
                                                        effect, but this
                                                        suggestion is
                                                        lacking
                                                        additional
                                                        insight and
                                                        analysis to be
                                                        taken
                                                        seriously.  Is
                                                        there anyone in
                                                        this group with
                                                        the expertise to
                                                        contribute to
                                                        this study?  </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">John
                                                        M.  </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div
                                                        style="border:
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                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                                          style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
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                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>Roychoudhuri,
                                                          Chandra<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          January 21,
                                                          2017 11:56 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          Nature of
                                                          Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re: [General]
                                                          light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">“Gravitational waves
                                                        indicate vacuum
                                                        energy exists”,
                                                        paper by John
                                                        Macken</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">John M.: Thanks for
                                                        attaching your
                                                        paper. <b><i>The
                                                          title clearly
                                                          indicates that
                                                          we really are
                                                          in basic
                                                          agreement. The
                                                          cosmic space
                                                          has physical
                                                          properties.</i></b>
                                                        I have expressed
                                                        my views a bit
                                                        differently,
                                                        that the cosmic
                                                        space is a <b><i>stationary
                                                          </i></b>Complex
                                                        Tension Filed
                                                        (CTF), <b><i>holding
                                                          100% of the
                                                          cosmic energy</i></b>
                                                        in the attached
                                                        papers and in my
                                                        book, “Causal
                                                        Physics”. <b><i>If
                                                          the so-called
                                                          vacuous cosmic
                                                          space and the
                                                          CTF were not
                                                          inseparable,
                                                          the velocity
                                                          of light would
                                                          have been
                                                          different
                                                          through
                                                          different
                                                          regions of the
                                                          cosmic space</i></b>!</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     I just do not
                                                        like to continue
                                                        to use the word
                                                        “vacuum”
                                                        because, in the
                                                        English
                                                        language, it has
                                                        acquired a very
                                                        different
                                                        meaning
                                                        (“nothing”) for
                                                        absolute
                                                        majority of
                                                        people over many
                                                        centuries. It is
                                                        better not to
                                                        confuse common
                                                        people by
                                                        asserting new
                                                        meanings on very
                                                        old and very
                                                        well established
                                                        words. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     Further, in your
                                                        support, the
                                                        quantitative
                                                        values of at
                                                        least two
                                                        physical
                                                        properties,</span>
                                                      <span
                                                        style="font-size:
                                                        11.0pt;color:
                                                        rgb(153,51,102);">Epsilon
                                                        & Mu, of the
                                                        comic space have
                                                        already
                                                        presented as
                                                        quantified
                                                        properties by
                                                        Maxwell around
                                                        1867 through his
                                                        wave equation.
                                                        Recall
                                                        (c-squared)=(1/Epsilon.Mu).
                                                        These properties
                                                        of the cosmic
                                                        space were
                                                        already
                                                        quantified
                                                        before Maxwell
                                                        by the early
                                                        developers of
                                                        electrostatics
                                                        and magneto
                                                        statics.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">     I assume that you
                                                        are suggesting
                                                        us that we need
                                                        to postulate and
                                                        quantify other
                                                        physical
                                                        properties
                                                        possessed by
                                                        this cosmic
                                                        space (<b><i>Maxwellian
                                                          or Faraday
                                                          Tension Field</i></b>?),
                                                        so that the
                                                        “emergent
                                                        dynamic
                                                        particles” out
                                                        of this cosmic
                                                        space would
                                                        display all the
                                                        properties we
                                                        have already
                                                        been measuring
                                                        for well over a
                                                        century.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">      However, I
                                                        disagree, as of
                                                        now, that cosmic
                                                        space is
                                                        “space-time”
                                                        four
                                                        dimensional.
                                                        Because, the
                                                        “running time”
                                                        is not a
                                                        measurable
                                                        physical
                                                        parameter of any
                                                        physical entity
                                                        that we know of
                                                        in this
                                                        universe. So, I
                                                        assert that the
                                                        “running time”
                                                        cannot be
                                                        altered by any
                                                        physical
                                                        process. <b><i>Humans
                                                          have smartly
                                                          derived the
                                                          concept of
                                                          “running time”
                                                          using various
                                                          kinds of
                                                          harmonic
                                                          oscillators
                                                          and/or
                                                          periodic
                                                          motions.</i></b>
                                                        We can alter the
                                                        frequency of a
                                                        physical
                                                        oscillator by
                                                        changing its
                                                        physical
                                                        environment. Of
                                                        course, this is
                                                        my personal
                                                        perception, <b><i>not
                                                          supported by
                                                          the entire
                                                          group</i></b>.
                                                        But, that is
                                                        precisely the
                                                        purpose of this
                                                        free and honest
                                                        discussions so
                                                        we can learn
                                                        from each other.
                                                        As my
                                                        understanding
                                                        evolves; I might
                                                        change back my
                                                        mind and accept
                                                        space as four-
                                                        or even
                                                        thirteen-dimensional.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(153,51,102);">Chandra.</span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div
                                                        style="border:
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                                                        0.0in 0.0in;">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                                          style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>John
                                                          Macken<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          January 21,
                                                          2017 1:37 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          'Nature of
                                                          Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion';
                                                          'Andrew
                                                          Worsley'<br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b>
                                                          'M.A.'<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re: [General]
                                                          light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">Dear
                                                        Chandra and All,</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">You
                                                        have said “</span><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">We definitely have advanced our <b><i>collective
                                                          understanding</i></b>
                                                        that <b><i>space
                                                          is not empty
                                                          and the
                                                          particles are
                                                          some form of
                                                          emergent
                                                          properties of
                                                          this same
                                                          universal
                                                          cosmic field.</i></b></span><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">” 
                                                        The idea that
                                                        space is not an
                                                        empty void has
                                                        not been
                                                        quantified in
                                                        any model of
                                                        spacetime
                                                        proposed by
                                                        members of  the
                                                        group. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">I
                                                        have
                                                        concentrated in
                                                        defining and
                                                        quantifying the
                                                        properties of
                                                        the vacuum and
                                                        the results are
                                                        presented in the
                                                        attached paper. 
                                                        This paper
                                                        analyzes the
                                                        properties of
                                                        spacetime
                                                        encountered by
                                                        gravitational
                                                        waves.  The
                                                        conclusion is
                                                        that spacetime
                                                        is a sea of
                                                        Planck length
                                                        vacuum
                                                        fluctuations
                                                        that oscillate
                                                        at Planck
                                                        frequency. This
                                                        model can be
                                                        quantified,
                                                        analyzed and
                                                        tested.  It is
                                                        shown that this
                                                        model gives the
                                                        correct energy
                                                        for virtual
                                                        particle
                                                        formation.  It
                                                        also gives the
                                                        correct energy
                                                        density for
                                                        black holes, the
                                                        correct zero
                                                        point energy
                                                        density of the
                                                        universe (about
                                                        10<sup>113</sup>
                                                        J/m<sup>3</sup>)
                                                        and generates
                                                        the Friedmann
                                                        equation for the
                                                        critical density
                                                        of the universe
                                                        (about 10<sup>-26</sup>
                                                        kg/m<sup>3</sup>
                                                        =  10<sup>-9</sup>
                                                        J/m<sup>3</sup>).
                                                      </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">The
                                                        reason for
                                                        mentioning this
                                                        to a group
                                                        interested in
                                                        the structure of
                                                        electrons,
                                                         photons and
                                                        electric fields
                                                        is that the
                                                        quantifiable
                                                        properties of
                                                        spacetime must
                                                        be incorporated
                                                        into any
                                                        particle or
                                                        field  model. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                        style="color:
                                                        rgb(32,24,140);">John 
                                                        M.</span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div
                                                        style="border:
                                                        none;border-top:
                                                        solid
                                                        rgb(225,225,225)
                                                        1.0pt;padding:
                                                        3.0pt 0.0in
                                                        0.0in 0.0in;">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                                          style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"> General [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>Roychoudhuri,
                                                          Chandra<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          January 21,
                                                          2017 8:45 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          Andrew Worsley
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>>; Light & particles. Web
                                                          discussion
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
onclick="parent.window.location.href='general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b>
                                                          M.A. <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re: [General]
                                                          light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group</span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Dear Andrew Worsely: </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">    This is a platform for ethical, serious
                                                        and honest
                                                        discussions on
                                                        scientific
                                                        issues that the
                                                        prevailing
                                                        mainstream
                                                        platforms have
                                                        been shunning.
                                                        We definitely do
                                                        not want to sow
                                                        unsubstantiated
                                                        distrust within
                                                        this group. <b><i>This
                                                          not a
                                                          political
                                                          forum where
                                                          sophisticated
                                                          deceptions are
                                                          highly prized;
                                                          which has been
intellectualized as “post-truth”!</i></b> This is not a “post-truth”
                                                        forum.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">     So, please, <b><i><span style="color:
                                                          rgb(192,0,0);">help
                                                          us</span></i></b><span
                                                          style="color:
                                                          rgb(192,0,0);">
                                                        </span>by
                                                        getting help
                                                        from computer
                                                        professionals
                                                        before repeating
                                                        any further
                                                        unsubstantiated
                                                        accusations.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">     If you can definitively identify anybody
                                                        within our group
                                                        carrying out
                                                        unethical and
                                                        destructive
                                                        activities;
                                                        obviously, we
                                                        would bar such
                                                        persons from
                                                        this group
                                                        discussion.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Chandra.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Dear All Participants:    </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Please be vigilant in maintaining the
                                                        essential ethics
                                                        behind this
                                                        discussion forum
                                                        – honestly
                                                        accept or reject
                                                        others’
                                                        opinions;
                                                        preferably, <b><i>build
                                                          upon them.
                                                          This is the
                                                          main objective
                                                          of this forum
                                                          as this would
                                                          advance real
                                                          progress in
                                                          physics out of
                                                          the currently
                                                          stagnant
                                                          culture</i></b>.
                                                        While we have
                                                        not come to
                                                        realize any
                                                        broadly-acceptable
                                                        major
                                                        break-through
                                                        out of this
                                                        forum; we
                                                        definitely have
                                                        advanced our <b><i>collective
                                                          understanding</i></b>
                                                        that <b><i>space
                                                          is not empty
                                                          and the
                                                          particles are
                                                          some form of
                                                          emergent
                                                          properties of
                                                          this same
                                                          universal
                                                          cosmic field.</i></b>
                                                        This, in itself,
                                                        is significant;
                                                        because the
                                                        approach of this
                                                        group to
                                                        particle physics
                                                        is significantly
                                                        different from
                                                        the mainstream.
                                                        I definitely see
                                                        a better future
                                                        for physics out
                                                        of this
                                                        thinking: Space
                                                        is a real
                                                        physical field
                                                        and observables
                                                        are
                                                        manifestation
                                                        (different forms
                                                        of excited
                                                        states) of this
                                                        field.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">      Most of you are aware that our SPIE
                                                        conference
                                                        series, which
                                                        was continuing
                                                        since 2005, has
                                                        been abruptly
                                                        shut down
                                                        without serious
                                                        valid
                                                        justifications
                                                        (complains from
                                                        “knowledgeable
                                                        people” that
                                                        “bad apples”
                                                        have joined in).
                                                        We certainly do
                                                        not want
                                                        something
                                                        similar happen
                                                        to this web
                                                        discussion forum
                                                        due to internal
                                                        dissentions and
                                                        internal
                                                        unethical
                                                        behavior.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Many thanks for your vigilance and support.</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Respectfully,</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Chandra. </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
                                                        style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma , sans-serif;"> Andrew Worsley [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">mailto:worsley333@gmail.com</a>]<br>
                                                        <b>Sent:</b>
                                                        Saturday,
                                                        January 21, 2017
                                                        4:49 AM<br>
                                                        <b>To:</b> John
                                                        Duffield<br>
                                                        <b>Cc:</b>
                                                        Roychoudhuri,
                                                        Chandra; ANDREW
                                                        WORSLEY<br>
                                                        <b>Subject:</b>
                                                        Re: Andrew
                                                        Worsley, light
                                                        and particles
                                                        group</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">Hi
                                                        John,</p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Could
                                                          be a
                                                          coincidence,
                                                          but some damn
                                                          troll from the
                                                          discussion
                                                          group (called
                                                          Vladimir) has
                                                          screwed up my
                                                          email which I
                                                          have had
                                                          problem free
                                                          for the last
                                                          20 years- and
                                                          my computer is
                                                          now going
                                                          suspiciously
                                                          slow.</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">On
                                                          Thu, Jan 19,
                                                          2017 at 7:44
                                                          PM, John
                                                          Duffield <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='johnduffield@btconnect.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Chandra:
                                                          </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Please
                                                          can you add
                                                          Andrew Worsley
                                                          to the nature
                                                          of light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group. I’ve
                                                          met him
                                                          personally,
                                                          and think he
                                                          has a valuable
                                                          contribution
                                                          to make. </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Apologies
                                                          if you’ve
                                                          already done
                                                          this, but
                                                          Andrew tells
                                                          me he’s
                                                          received a <i>blocked
                                                          by moderator</i>
                                                          message. </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>John
                                                          Duffield</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>7
                                                          Gleneagles
                                                          Avenue</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Poole</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>BH14
                                                          9LJ</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>UK</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          style="color:
rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          style="color:
rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:
none;border-top: solid rgb(225,225,225) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt 0.0in 0.0in
                                                          0.0in;">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
                                                          John Duffield
                                                          [mailto:<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='johnduffield@btconnect.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>]<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          09 January
                                                          2017 08:34<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          'Roychoudhuri,
                                                          Chandra' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b>
                                                          'ANDREW
                                                          WORSLEY' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">member@aworsley.fsnet.co.uk</a>>; 'John Williamson'
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>; 'Martin Van Der
                                                          Mark' <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martinvandermark1@gmail.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='martinvandermark1@gmail.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">martinvandermark1@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Andrew
                                                          Worsley, light
                                                          and particles
                                                          group</p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Chandra:
                                                          </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Please
                                                          can you add
                                                          Andrew Worsley
                                                          (<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:worsley333@gmail.com"
                                                          onclick="parent.window.location.href='worsley333@gmail.com';
                                                          return false;"
target="_blank">worsley333@gmail.com</a>) to the nature of light and
                                                          particles
                                                          group. I’ve
                                                          met him
                                                          personally,
                                                          and think he
                                                          has a valuable
                                                          contribution
                                                          to make. He
                                                          has described
                                                          the electron
                                                          as being what
                                                          you might call
                                                          a quantum
                                                          harmonic
                                                          structure. 
                                                          The electron
                                                          in an orbital
                                                          is described
                                                          by spherical
                                                          harmonics, the
                                                          electron
                                                          itself might
                                                          be described
                                                          by spherical
                                                          (or toroidal)
                                                          harmonics. </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span>JohnD</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
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