<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Wolf,</p>
<p>some questions and comments to the topic of gravity:</p>
<p>If you follow Einstein's concept that the cause of gravity is a
curvature of space then the influence of a gravitational source
will be symmetric. Any shielding is (to my knowledge) not in the
GRT of Einstein. And - as always with Einstein - the propagation
speed is c.</p>
<p>You mention on the other hand gravitons as actors for the
gravitational force. In case of no shielding the effect on a
sphere or on a ball of mass will be the same as for a point mass.
That is true for all forces which have the distance law of 1/r<sup>2</sup>
. (It should be not too difficult to prove this by integration
over the according figure.) Shielding is here an open question but
there seems to be no result from observations which gives a hint
to a shielding effect.</p>
<p>You write that an instantaneous propagation of gravity would
avoid the problems which you suspect. In which way should that
work?</p>
<p>What has the stability of a neutron has to do with gravity? The
gravitational force is weaker than the nuclear force by more than
40 orders of magnitude. That cannot have a measurable effect.</p>
<p>Or did I misunderstand your question?</p>
<p>I hope that you also did have Happy Easter!<br>
</p>
<p>Albrecht</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:49:22 -0700
schrieb Wolfgang Baer <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a>:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:aada10ea-a210-8377-ad2b-b5aad47bed7e@a-giese.de"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="moz-forward-container">sorry I have been absent for a
time:
<p>kracklauer expresses a very important distinction between
what we actually see or measure and what we infer from those
measurements.</p>
<p>I'm developing a physics of the observer and it is extremely
important to understand and even have an observational and
theoretical language as the Positivists proposed to keep what
we see and what we infer straight. Our perceptive system fuses
our visual sensation with a theoretical calculation or
inference displayed in our perceptive space. However we
normally do not notice because it happens too rapidly. So we
say I see an apple. No I see a red blob and infer from learned
experience that the blob should be collocated with a tangible
object. Every predicate refers in our language to a teoretical
influence. I do NOT see an apple, I infer an apple exists
based upon what I do see. I've even written a paper on the
subject specifically in German. so far the DUden people are
not impressed, but they will be.<br>
</p>
<p>Now back to gravity: I have a few more questions</p>
<p>Calculating the gravity force on a point particle in a
symmetric mass shell gives force balance , but any finite size
particle will have a net force that pulls a mass apart.
because the attractive force on the left side of the extended
particle will be greater from a distant mass on the left than
a symmetric distant mass on the right. the difference is
proportional to the diameter of the particle. It is a small
effect if gravity passes through matter unaffected but if the
finite particle absorbs gravitational energy it becomes
larger. What holds and extended particle of mass like a
neutron together? <br>
</p>
<p>If there are gravitons to carry gravity should they not get
absorbed and emitted by a receiver and sender? If yes then
there should be shielding? Does the Sun shield Mercury? <br>
</p>
<p>I did the mc^2 = mGM/R calculation when one is in the center
of the surrounding mass shell, but we are not at the center of
the Universe or are we? If I do the off center calculation in
an expanding universe I no longer get symmetrically cancelling
force since the retarded potential from an earlier time will
no longer be equal to its opposite nearer and newer mass.
However if I assume infinite gravity speed things work out.
Another argument for action at a distance.<br>
</p>
<p>Happy Easter</p>
<p>Wolf<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/13/2016 1:10 PM, Albrecht
Giese wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4f7b7259-81af-fbb1-4464-fb0708ae7b09@a-giese.de"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<p>Hi!<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.09.2016 um 20:34 schrieb <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-da915da7-e0e9-41bf-8670-d857353c1fdf-1473705297095@3capp-webde-bs50"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag,
12. September 2016 um 16:59 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Gravity</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<p>Hi Al:</p>
<p>" <font color="#000099">"Photons" (given
anybody's definition) cannot be directly an
object of observation. PEROID.</font> "</p>
<p>In this case please explain the corresponding
process in my experiment, i.e. the detection of
photons by pair production where all necessary
physical quantities for an individual photon
have been conserved. The distance between
generation and detection was about 10 m.</p>
<p>AK: You didn't see any photons, rather the
pair after the split and infered what happend
based on the taget location and the cite of the
'pair production' and their subsequent orbits in
a bubble chamber (or equivalent). [If I got the
experiment wrong, please describe the target and
detection apparatus.] BTW, respecting
conservation laws does not require direct
observation of a means of interaction between
source charges and sink charges, (modulo an
uncharged---i.e. unobservable---sink charge). <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
In the experiment photons have been generated having a
certain energy. 10 meters downstream an electron-positron-pair
was generated representing the same energy. So, there was some
object flying between the generation point and the detection
point which transported just that energy. And this object did
not have any charge. (Otherwise it would have been deflected
away as there was a strong magnetic field.)<br>
<br>
If it should not have been a photon as you suspect, should we
give this object a different name? Do you propose a name? Then
we could have new physics. Existing physics tells us that it
was a photon. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-da915da7-e0e9-41bf-8670-d857353c1fdf-1473705297095@3capp-webde-bs50"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<p> </p>
<p>And hi Chandra:</p>
<p>Why can we not assume that the particles
"photons" have a "pilot wave" in the sense of de
Broglie around them as similarly have e.g.
electrons and neutrons? And those pilot waves
follow similar rules like the Maxwell equations?</p>
<p>AK: If the "pilot wve" itself is not of
E&M origin, what is it? How does it work?
[Granted deBroglie himself did not have
specific models for his pilot wave; but others
have! For example, see #11 on my web page, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com">www.nonloco-physics.0catch.com</a>]</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
We could also use the understanding of present main stream
physics: All particles like photons, electrons, neutrons are a
particle and a wave at the same time. If we take the mode as
wave in case of the photon we can use Maxwell's equations to
describe the situation. - I like the pilot wave of de Broglie
better as it is perceptible by human imagination. In the case
of the photon the superposition of all pilot waves would in
that case fulfil the requirements of Maxwell's equations.
Something equivalent should happen to the superposition of the
pilot waves of e.g. electrons and neutrons. De Broglie did not
specify what the pilot wave is made of. He assumed his "waves
of harmony" without further specification. That sounds a bit
mysterious. In the case of hadrons those should be waves of
the strong force. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-da915da7-e0e9-41bf-8670-d857353c1fdf-1473705297095@3capp-webde-bs50"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<p> </p>
<p>Albrecht</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 18px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-tick-v1.gif"
style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" height="29"
width="46"></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 17px; color:
#41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virenfrei.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a>
<a href=<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>>
Click here to unsubscribe
</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 18px;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" height="29"
width="46"></a></td>
<td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 17px; color:
#41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virenfrei. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
height="1"> </a></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>