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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/4/2017 9:40 AM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
Each twin has two choices<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">1.) <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">He
ignores physics. He travels forth and back and when he
is back ag<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ain,
he meets t<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">win
2 and can compare the clocks of both. They will
indicate the same time. So he will not see any
problem.<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">He does
not ignore physics but ignores SRT. Both twins do exactly the
same thing and physics tells them to expect to get the same
result. </font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">2.) He
knows <strike>physics</strike> SRT and partic<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ularly <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">special
relativity. And, to be clo<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">se to your case,
he may define after his start his frame of
motion <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">as </font>the <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">reference
frame. So in this fram<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">e his clock
will run with normal speed. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">His frame
of reference is his spaceship outfitted with real meter sticks
and real clocks. He looks outside and measures the doppler shift
from a predefined signal frequency and so each one knows the
other is moving away at velocity 'v' relative to himself</font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Then,
when<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"> his retro rocket has started,
he will notic<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">e the
acceleration. He knows that compared
to his previous state of motion he
is now movin<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">g towards t<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">win 2 wi<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">th a
speed which you have c<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">alled v. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">His frame
of reference is still his spaceship outfitted with real meter
sticks and real clocks. He looks outside and measures the
doppler shift from a predefined signal frequency and so each one
knows the other is moving away at velocity 'v' relative to
himself only now the velocity is toward each other.<br>
</font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">And
as he knows physics, he will be
aware of the fa<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">ct <font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">that now h<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">is own clock will run
differently than before. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">No he
reads a book on special relativity written by Einstein that
tells him the other twins clock should run slow<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif"> than his own.</font></font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">S<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">o if he
w<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">ants
to understand what is
going on and if he still
takes his original state
of motio<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">n
a<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">s
<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">his
reference frame, he
has to<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"> <font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">realize
that his clock i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">s</font>
now running <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">slower</font><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">.
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Why would
he take his original state of motion as his reference frame?
That would be some imaginaty space ship still moving away at
velocity "v". His reference frame is his space ship<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">, something may have
effected its clocks and rods but his frame is his frame. </font>You
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">are</font> mak<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ing</font> up a story
about his own clocks that are obviously running exactly the way
they always as far as his observations are concerned in order
to make the theory he read in the SRT book m<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">ore valid than what he <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">actually</font> sees
and can measure. </font></font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">-
On the other
hand, if he
wants to under<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">stand
the situation
of <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twin
2 he has to
realize that
the speed of t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">w<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">in
2, <b>takin</b><b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">g
p<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">lace
with v in
relation to
his own
original
frame,</font></font></b><b>
</b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>causes
a slow down of
the clock </b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>of
t</b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>win
2</b>. <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">But
</font>then,
after t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">win
2 has <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">fired
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">his
retro rocket,
tw<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">in
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">2
will have
speed = 0 with
respect to the
original frame
of <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twin<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
1. So the
clock of twin
2 will now <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">run
in the normal
way. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Compared
with an imaginary frame<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">. We and <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Einstein claimed to</font>
deals with real rods and clocks</font></font></font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
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Times, serif"><font
face="Times
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face="Times
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face="Times
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face="Times
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face="Times
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face="Times
New Roman,
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face="Times
New Roman,
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- If you n<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ow
add the
different
phases of both
clocks, i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">.e.
the phases of
normal run<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
and the ph<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ases
of slow down,
you will see
that the
result is the
same <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">for
both <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twins.
And this is w<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">hat
I have expl<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ain<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ed
quantitatively
i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">n
my last mail.<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All one
has to do is to add to the protocol that each twin should take a
faximily of their own clocks and compare them later by your own
analysis (<b> see bold face above</b>) each twin would <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">believe</font> his own
Fax would run at the normal rate but the other would slow down.<br>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">In other words the experiment gives the
answer logic would <font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">expect</font>, but the story in Einstain's book is
wrong. It is not that <font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">mooving clocks do not slow down but the theory <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">explaining it is
different and must include the physics of the observer<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">, which I'll
describe next once we get this point <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">straightened</font>
out.</font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
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face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
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face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
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face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
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face="Times New Roman, Times,
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face="Times New Roman,
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<br>
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">I
mus<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">t
say that I
have problems
to understand
where you <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">have
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">a
</font>difficult<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">y
to see this.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
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