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<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">WE all
agree clocks slow down, but If I include the observer then I
get an equation for the slow down that agrees with eperimetn
but disagrees with Einstein in the higher order, so it should
be testable<br>
</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Lets
look at this
thing Historically</b>:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>In the
19’th century
the hey day of Aristotelian Philosophy everyone was convinced
Reality consisted
of an external objective universe independent of subjective
living beings.
Electricity and Magnetism had largely been explored through
empirical
experiments which lead to basic laws<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>summarized by Maxwell’s equations. These equations are
valid in a medium
characterized by the permittivity ε<sub>0</sub><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>and permeability μ<sub>0</sub><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>of
free space. URL:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell’s_equations">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell’s_equations</a><br>
<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>These
equations<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>are valid in a
coordinate frame x,y,z,t and
are identical in form when expressed in a different coordinate
frame
x’,y’,z’,t’. Unfortunat4ely I’ve never seen a substitution of
the Lorentz
formulas into Maxwell’s equations that will then give the same
form only using
∂/∂x’, and d/dt’, to get E’ and B’ but it must exist. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>In
empty
space Maxwell’s equations reduce to the wave equation and
Maxwell’s field
concept required an aether as a medium for them to propagate. It
was postulated
that space was filled with such a medium and that the earth was
moving through
it. Therefore it should be detectable with a Michelson –Morely
experiment. But
The Null result showed this to be wrong.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"> </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Einstein’s
Approach:</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Einstein
came along and derived the Lorentz Transformations assuming the
speed of light
is constant, synchronization protocol of clocks, and rods, the
invariance of
Maxwell’s equations in all inertial frames, and the null result
of
Michelson-Morely experiments. Einstein went on to eliminate any
absolute space
and instead proposed that all frames and observers riding in
them are
equivalent and each such observer would measure another
observers clocks slowing
down when moving with constant relative velocity. This
interpretation lead to
the Twin Paradox. Since each observer according to Einstein,
being in his own
frame would according to his theory claim the other observer’s
clocks would
slow down. However both cannot be right.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Einstein
found an answer to this paradox in his invention of general
relativity where
clocks speed up when in a higher gravity field i.e one that
feels less strong
like up on top of a mountain. Applied to the twin paradox: a
stationary twin
sees the moving twin at velocity “v” and thinks the moving
twin’s clock slows
down. The moving twin does not move relative to his clock but
must
accelerate<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>to make a
round trip (using
the equivalence principle calculated the being equivalent to a
gravitational
force). Feeling the acceleration as gravity and knowing that
gravity slows her
clocks she would also calculate her clocks would slow down. The
paradox is
resolved because in one case the explanation is velocity the
other it is
gravity.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Lorentz
Approach:</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Lorentz
simply proposed that clocks being electromagnetic structures
slow down and
lengths in the direction of motion contract in the absolute
aether of space according
to his transformation and therefore the aether could not be
detected. In other
words Lorentz maintained the belief in an absolute aether filled
space, but
that electromagnetic objects relative to that space slow down
and contract.
Gravity and acceleration had nothing to do with it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>This
approach pursued by Max Van Laue argued that the observer
subject to
acceleration would know that he is no longer in the same
inertial frame as
before and therefore calculate that his clocks must be slowing
down, even
though he has no way of measuring such a slow down because all
the clocks in his
reference frame. Therefore does not consider gravity but only
the knowledge
that due to his acceleration he must be moving as well and
knowing his clocks
are slowed by motion he is not surprised that his clock has
slowed down when he
gets back to the stationary observer and therefore no paradox
exists. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Everyone agrees the moving clocks slow down
but we have two
different reasons. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Lorentz’s case the absolute fixed frame
remains which in
the completely symmetric twin paradox experiment described above
implies that
both observers have to calculate their own clock rates from the
same initial
start frame and therefore both calculate the same slow down.
This introduces a
disembodied 3d person observer which is reminiscent of a god
like .</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Einstein’s case both observers would see
the other moving
at a relative velocity and calculate their clocks to run slower
than their own
when they calculate their own experience they would also
calculate their own
clocks to run slow. But because they know the other twin is also
accelerating these
effects cancel and all that is left is the velocity slow down.
In other words
the Einstein explanation that one twin explains the slow down as
a velocity
effect and the other as a gravity effect so both come to the
same conclusion is
inadequate. Einstein’s explanation would have to fall back on
Lorentz’s and
both twins calculate both the gravity effect and the velocity
effect from a
disembodied 3d person observer which is reminiscent of a god
like .</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">So
both Lorentz’s and
Einstein’s approaches are flawed</b> because both require a
disembodied 3d
person observer who is observing that independent Aristotilian
objective
universe that must exist whether we look at it or not.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now Baer comes along and says the entire
Aristotelian
approach is wrong and the Platonic view must be taken. Einstein
is right in
claiming there is no independent of ourselves space however his
derivation of
Lorentz Transformations was conducted under the assumption that
his own
imagination provided the 3d person observer god like observer
but he failed to
recognize the significance of this fact. And therefore had to
invent additional
and incorrect assumptions that lead to false equations.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>When
the
observer is properly taken into account each observer generates
his own
observational display in which he creates the appearance of
clocks. Those
appearance are stationary relative to the observer’s supplied
background space
or they might be moving. But in either case some external
stimulation has
caused the two appearances. If two copies of the same external
clock mechanism
are involved and in both cases the clock ticks require a certain
amount of
action to complete a cycle of activity that is called a second
i.e. the moving
of the hand from line 1 to line 2 on the dial. Therefore the
action required to
complete the event between clock ticks is the invariant.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span
style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>The two clocks do
not slow down
because they appear to be moving relative to each other their
rates are
determined by their complete Lagrangian Energy L = T-V
calculated inside the fixed
mass underlying each observer’s universe. The potential
gravitational energy of
a mass inside the mass shell <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>is
<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 1)<span style="mso-tab-count:3">
</span>V=
-mc<sup>2</sup> = -m∙M<sub>u</sub>∙G/R<sub>u</sub>. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Here
M<sub>u</sub>
and R<sub>u</sub> are the mass and radius of the mass shell and
also the
Schwarzchild radius of the black hole each of us is in. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>A
stationary clock interval is Δt its Lagrangian energy is L= m∙c<sup>2</sup></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>A
moving
clock interval is Δt’ its Lagrangian energy is L= ½∙m∙v<sup>2</sup>
+m∙c<sup>2</sup></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Comparing the two clock rates and <b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal">assuming the Action is an invariant</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 2)<span style="mso-tab-count:3">
</span>(m∙c<sup>2</sup>)
∙ Δt = A = <sub><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></sub>(½∙m∙v<sup>2</sup>
+m∙c<sup>2</sup>) ∙ Δt’</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dividing through by m∙c<sup>2</sup> gives</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 3)<span style="mso-tab-count:3">
</span>Δt
= Δt’ ∙ (1 + ½∙v<sup>2</sup>/c<sup>2</sup>)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Which to first order approximation is equal
to</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 4)<span style="mso-tab-count:3">
</span>Δt
= Δt’/(1 - v<sup>2</sup>/c<sup>2</sup>)<sup>1/2</sup> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Since the second order terms are on the order
of v<sup>4</sup>/c<sup>4</sup>
I believe Einstein’s theory has not been tested to the second
term accuracy. In
both theories the moving clock interval is smaller when the
clock moves with
constant velocity in the space of an observer at rest.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Lorentz
is
right that there is an aether and Einstein is right that there
is no absolute
frame and everything is relative. But Baer resolve both these
“rights” by
identifying the aether as the personal background memory space
of each observer
who feels he is living in his own universe. We see and
experience our own
individual world of objects and incorrectly feel what we are
looking at is an
independent external universe.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/7/2017 5:54 AM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6efbc75e-d69b-d360-737b-d6ad083dae73@a-giese.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Wolf:<br>
</p>
Am 06.06.2017 um 08:14 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Albrecht:</p>
<p>First there have been so many E-mails I do not know which one
you want me to look at to understand your explanation. So
please send me a copy of it again.</p>
</blockquote>
Sorry but I am not at home now and do not have this mail at hand.
But you will find it by its contents:<br>
<br>
My mail was about this apparent conflict if two moving observes
say that the clock of the other one is slowed down compared to his
own one. Which is not a contradiction if you look at the time
related Lorentz transformation:<br>
t' = gamma*(t-vx/c2) <br>
where you have to insert correct values for v and x. You will find
it in a mail of last week.<br>
This understanding is essential for any discussion of dilation.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com">
<p>Of course if there is some special to interpret Einstein's
intent that is not in Einstein's book then perhaps you are
right , <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Which book of Einstein do you mean? As above, this is not a
special interpretation of Einstein's intent but the correct use of
the Lorentz transformation.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com">
<p> </p>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">if
you are telling me that the only valid <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">inertial frame is the frame of a
third person god like observer who is stationary before
the tw<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ins fire
their rockets and in that frame both of the twins doing
exactly the same thing would have exactly the same clock
rates and therefore they will have the elapsed time when
they meet<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">.<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">No, you
can take any frame you want. But for the whole process where
you use the Lorentz transformation you have to refer to the
same frame.</font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"> <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">And
further if you are telling me that <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">both twins
must <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">realize
that</font> their own clock <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">is slowing down</font>
and the other twin's <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">clock is also slowing down because
both <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">tw</font>ins
must do their calcu<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">lations in this special initial
god like 3d person frame so both agree<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">No, it
is not the condition that there is a god like person, but one
has to stay with one frame whichever it is.</font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">And
further you are telling me that <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">all
the talk about there not being a special <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">inertial</font>
frame, and everything is relative </font></font></font><br>
</font>and neither twin </font> <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">believ<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">es he is
</font></font>in <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">his </font> o<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">w</font>n inertial
frame because <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">neither feels <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">he is moving is a
misinterpretation of <font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">SRT<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">whether
someone <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">fee<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ls that he is movin<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">g or not <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">depends also on <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">his </font>ch<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">oice of the
reference frame.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">and
further that URL <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox</a><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><br>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">"Starting
with <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Langevin"
title="Paul Langevin"
moz-do-not-send="true">Paul Langevin</a>
in 1911, there have been various
explanations of this paradox. These
explanations "can be grouped into those
that focus on the effect of different
standards of simultaneity in different
frames, and those that designate the
acceleration [experienced by the
travelling twin] as the main reason...".<sup
id="cite_ref-Debs_Redhead_5-0"
class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-Debs_Redhead-5"
moz-do-not-send="true">[5]</a></sup>
<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Laue"
title="Max von Laue"
moz-do-not-send="true">Max von Laue</a>
argued in 1913 that since the traveling
twin must be in two separate <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_frames"
class="mw-redirect" title="Inertial
frames" moz-do-not-send="true">inertial
frames</a>, one on the way out and
another on the way back, this frame
switch is the reason for the aging
difference, not the acceleration <i>per
se</i>.<sup id="cite_ref-6"
class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-6"
moz-do-not-send="true">[6]</a></sup>
Explanations put forth by <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein"
title="Albert Einstein"
moz-do-not-send="true">Albert Einstein</a>
and <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Born"
title="Max Born"
moz-do-not-send="true">Max Born</a>
invoked <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation"
title="Gravitational time dilation"
moz-do-not-send="true">gravitational
time dilation</a> to explain the aging
as a direct effect of acceleration.<sup
id="cite_ref-Jammer_7-0"
class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-Jammer-7"
moz-do-not-send="true">[7]</a></sup>
General relativity is not necessary to
explain the twin paradox; special
relativity alone can explain the
phenomenon.<sup id="cite_ref-8"
class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-8"
moz-do-not-send="true">[8]</a></sup><sup
id="cite_ref-9" class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-9"
moz-do-not-send="true">[9]</a></sup>.<sup
id="cite_ref-10" class="reference"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#cite_note-10"
moz-do-not-send="true">[10]"</a><br>
</sup></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<sup><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Pau<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">l Langevin and Max
von Laue are both correct with their explanation a<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">s I alre<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ady wrote in the
other mail. </font></font></font></font></font></sup><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><sup
id="cite_ref-10" class="reference"> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" size="+2">Einstein and Born
explanation<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"> i</font>s
bull shit because in fact there is a
<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">preferred</font> inertial
frame i.e the frame in which <font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">both twins were <font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">initially</font> at rest
</font><br>
</font></sup></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"
size="+2"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif" size="+1">Al<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">bert Einstein and Max <font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Born are accor<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">ding to Wikipedia <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">cited by other
books, but no cont<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">ents are
given. So, what shall I
say<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">?<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> I know
about Einstein that he
has<font face="Times
New Roman, Times,
serif">, when he <font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">was asked a<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">bout the
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">win
paradox, </font></font></font></font></font>refer<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">red
to acceleration i<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">n</font> <font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">so far that
in an<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">y <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">case
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">of
acceleration
the original <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">frames
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">are
left and so
the Lorentz
trans<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">formation
is no longer <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">applicable.
I have the
facsimile of a
letter which
Einstein<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
once wrote to
a former
member of our
pre-Vigier
group<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
(i.e. PIRT) s<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">aying
just this. <br>
<br>
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">I
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">do
not know and
have never
heard that
Einstein refer<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">red
the twin
paradox to gra<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">vity.
And to <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">refer<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
here </font>to
gravitational
time dilation
is <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">so
far from any
logic that I
cannot imagine
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"
size="+2"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif" size="+1"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">that
Einstein has
mention<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ed</font>
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">something
like that at
any t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ime</font>.
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><sup
id="cite_ref-10" class="reference"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"
size="+2"> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Then I agree with you.<br>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif" size="+1">But be
careful what you wish for
because this <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">leads
to</font> my CAT theory<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"> that all objects are
created in the obserer<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">'s space and
the observer always provides
the fundamental background
in which both Einsteins
theory and Lorenz theory and
for that matter maxwell's
equations are valid. I would
love to have you agree with
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">my</font>
object<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">-</font>subject
integrated physics, which I
am developing. Look at my
Vigier 10 paper to see I
argued that <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">Einsteins</font>
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">imagination</font>
was he special background
space in which his thought
experiment <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">occurred<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">.</font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></sup></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<sup><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I
am afraid that you will o<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">verload or over-interpret Einstein's theory if
using it for <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">any
observer <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">dependent
</font>theor<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">i<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">es. Einstein
himself believed that <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">there is an objective <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">reali<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ty but
that every i<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">nertia<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">l frame <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">is
an own wo<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">rld in some sen<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">se.
Relativity exists according to
Einstein completely independent of
the exist<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">ence of
thinking humans.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></sup><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><sup
id="cite_ref-10" class="reference"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"
size="+2"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" size="+1"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">PS: your
explanation is like Max
von Laue's only he <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">did not
use a symmetric
experiment protocol and
therefore requires four
reference frame
switches, which lead<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> me to
ask how is the frame
change implemented if
not through the <font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">gravitational</font>
time dilation
explanation put
forward by <font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">E</font>instein
and Born. <br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></sup></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<sup><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Wh<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">y so complicated? As
soo<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">n as some ob<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ject<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">changes its
speed it leaves its original frame. Th<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">at is <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">simpl<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">y</font>
the d<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">e<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">finition of a <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">linear motion,
nothing philosophical beyond that.<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">And the <font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">symmetric</font> version of
the <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">twin para<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">do<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">x is your
proposal, so neither Max von <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">Lau<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">e nor
somebody else will have
used it. So only one
change of the frame, not <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">two or
more changes.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></sup>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
</font></font><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> we are getting clos<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">er soon
I'll show you that the speed with which your
particles move is the speed of Now In CAT
not the speed of light, which is always
changing and not at all constant.</font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">For
Einstein the speed of light is constant everywhere. I
personally do no<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">t
agree to this because I follow the Lorentzian relativity,
which I<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> do
because the Lorentzian S<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">RT is based on physics whereas Einstein's
relativity i<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">s
based on abstract p<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">rinciples. In g<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">eneral I do not like pri<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">n<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ciples as
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">final
solutions of open questions.<br>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">In
a <font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">genera<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">l view it is a b<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">i<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">g surpri<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">se for
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">me that such a s<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">imple physical
phenomenon like SRT can be
made <font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">or
seen so compl<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">icated as
it appears in this <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">discu<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">ssion.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2a3b09b8-e9a5-e4b8-aa7a-4358c88ad111@nascentinc.com"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"> </font></font></font></font></font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/5/2017 7:15 AM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:37975513-f5d2-b928-6e2b-027ea7a134ed@a-giese.de">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="+1">Wolf,</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="+1">to
summarize: Einstein's book is not wrong, but if you use it
in a wrong way then the results are conflicting.<br>
</font></p>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="+1">Am
05.06.2017 um 04:26 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:</font>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif" size="+1">On 6/4/2017 9:40 AM, Albrecht
Giese wrote:<br>
Each twin has two choices</font><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">1.) <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">He
ignores physics. He travels forth and back and
when he is back ag<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">ain, he meets t<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">win 2
and can compare the clocks of both. They
will indicate the same time. So he will
not see any problem.<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">He
does not ignore physics but ignores SRT. Both twins do
exactly the same thing and physics tells them to expect
to get the same result. </font></font><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">2.)
He knows <strike>physics</strike> SRT
and partic<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">ularly <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">special
relativity. And, to be clo<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">se to your case, he may
define after his start his frame
of motion <font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">as </font>the
<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">reference frame.
So in this fram<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">e his
clock will run with normal
speed. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">His
frame of reference is his spaceship outfitted with real
meter sticks and real clocks. He looks outside and
measures the doppler shift from a predefined signal
frequency and so each one knows the other is moving away
at velocity 'v' relative to himself</font></font><br>
</blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Any
rod and any clock is according to Einstein related to one
frame. If one changes his frame, anything is new.</font></font>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">Then, when<font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"> his retro rocket has
started, he will notic<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">e the
acceleration. He knows that
compared to his previous
state of motion he is now
movin<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">g
towards t<font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">win
2 wi<font face="Times
New Roman, Times,
serif">th a speed
which you have c<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">alled
v. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">His
frame of reference is still his spaceship outfitted with
real meter sticks and real clocks. He looks outside and
measures the doppler shift from a predefined signal
frequency and so each one knows the other is moving away
at velocity 'v' relative to himself only now the
velocity is toward each other.<br>
</font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">If
he still understands his spaceship as his frame after the
retro rocket has started then he leaves the conditions for
the validity of SRT.</font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite"><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> </font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">And as
he knows physics, he will be
aware of the fa<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">ct <font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">that now h<font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">is own
clock will run
differently than
before. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">No
he reads a book on special relativity written by
Einstein that tells him the other twins clock should run
slow<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> than his
own.</font></font></font><br>
</blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">f he rea<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ds and
understands special relativity followin<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">g Einstein then
he knows that now <i>also his own clock </i>runs
slower.</font></font></font></font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">S<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">o
if he w<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">ants to
understand what is
going on and if he
still takes his
original state of
motio<font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif">n a<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">s
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">his
reference
frame, he has
to<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">realize
that his clock
i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">s</font>
now running <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">slower</font><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">.
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Why
would he take his original state of motion as his
reference frame? That would be some imaginaty space ship
still moving away at velocity "v". His reference frame
is his space ship<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">, something may have effected its clocks and
rods but his frame is his frame. </font>You <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">are</font> mak<font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ing</font> up a
story about his own clocks that are obviously running
exactly the way they always as far as his observations
are concerned in order to make the theory he read in
the SRT book m<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">ore
valid than what he <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">actually</font> sees and can measure.
</font></font></font><br>
</blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">The
Lorentz transformation which we are talking about <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">defines the
transformation from one (inertial) frame to another one.
If twin 1 takes <font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">his spaceship as his frame <i>a</i><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><i>fter </i>the
acceleration then any facts from <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">the<font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"> time <font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">before </font></font></font>are
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">no longer
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">of
relevance. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">-
On the other
hand, if he
wants to under<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">stand
the situation
of <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twin
2 he has to
realize that
the speed of t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">w<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">in
2, <b>takin</b><b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">g
p<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">lace
with v in
relation to
his own
original
frame,</font></font></b><b>
</b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>causes
a slow down of
the clock </b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>of
t</b><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><b>win
2</b>. <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">But
</font>then,
after t<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">win
2 has <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">fired
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">his
retro rocket,
tw<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">in
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">2
will have
speed = 0 with
respect to the
original frame
of <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twin<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
1. So the
clock of twin
2 will now <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">run
in the normal
way. </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Compared
with an imaginary frame<font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">. We and <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Einstein claimed to</font> deals with real
rods and clocks</font></font></font></font><br>
</blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Any
rod and any clock is according to Einstein related to a
frame and makes no sense</font></font><font size="+1"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> without such
reference</font></font><font size="+1"><font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif">. If one changes his frame,
anything is new. The word "real" has a limited meaning in
that case. </font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
- If you n<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ow
add the
different
phases of both
clocks, i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">.e.
the phases of
normal run<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
and the ph<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ases
of slow down,
you will see
that the
result is the
same <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">for
both <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">twins.
And this is w<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">hat
I have expl<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ain<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">ed
quantitatively
i<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">n
my last mail.<br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All
one has to do is to add to the protocol that each twin
should take a faximily of their own clocks and compare
them later by your own analysis (<b> see bold face above</b>)
each twin would <font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">believe</font> his own Fax would run at the
normal rate but the other would slow down.<br>
</font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Here
you misunderstand how dilation works. I have tried to show
you earlier that clock comparison is not so simple. If two
observers move with respect to each other, then in a naive
view the observer holding clock 1 would say that clock 2
runs slower and at the same time the observer holding
clock 2 would say that clock 1 runs slower. This is as a
fact logically not possible. I have explained in the other
mail how this comparison works correctly so that the
logical conflict does not occur. Please look at that mail
again and we can continue our discussion on that basis. </font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite"><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> <br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">In other words
the experiment gives the answer logic would <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">expect</font>,
but the story in Einstain's book is wrong. It is not
that <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">mooving
clocks do not slow down but the theory <font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">explaining
it is different and must include the physics of
the observer<font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">, which I'll describe next once we get
this point <font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif">straightened</font> out.</font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></blockquote>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Einstein
is not wrong but you are using the Lorentz transformation
in an incorrect way. Please read the other mail again and
we can discuss on that basis. </font></font><br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a607e9a1-3b7f-6e2e-f0d0-05a2989f878e@nascentinc.com"
type="cite"><font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"> </font></font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:910d6201-cd55-1d61-55cb-4906b9d653c0@a-giese.de"><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times New
Roman, Times,
serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif"><font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">
<br>
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">I
mus<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">t
say that I
have problems
to understand
where you <font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">have
<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">a
</font>difficult<font
face="Times
New Roman,
Times, serif">y
to see this.</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
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