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Chandra:<br>
<br>
I've often wondered about the plasma effect and how it could have
been calculated accurately enough by <br>
<br>
However on reading it is not clear to me that he discounts all
gravitational light bending effects or simply in the plasma region<br>
<br>
I remember working on the Phase I GPS system at General Dynamics and
wondering how they could ever estimate the plasma efect of a varying
ionosphere but now the accuracies are down to a few meters so they
must have done it<br>
<br>
Has anyone looked at ref 10 Lebach is this the same Shapiro of
the Shipiro Micro-wave speed of light measurement.<br>
<br>
THat light speed is effected by gravity is difficult to discount,
however I always wonder if we are talking apples and oranges<br>
there is phase velocity and there is group velocity and they are
different <br>
I think it is phase that produces the bending , could Dowdey be
calcuating the ionosphering effect for group velocity and thereby
getr the same answer <br>
<br>
Wolf <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baner
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2017 9:51 AM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Grahame and the rest of the colleagues:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please, have a look at the attached paper
by a retired NASA scientist, who firmly believes that the
bending of light by stars is due to the refractive
index-gradient produced by the plasma of the stars, not by its
gravity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am just “stirring up the pot” <span
style="font-family:Wingdings">
J</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 26, 2017 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] STR twin Paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Hi
Chip (et al.),</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">I've
sent you the paper in question twice: once 25 Aug '16 in
response to your posting of the same date, and once
specifically in response to your request for same on 23rd
April '17. Let me know if you can't find either one of
these and I can send it again.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">With
regard to refraction of light by gravitational fields*,
this follows directly from slowing of electromagnetic
waves by such fields (a commonsense consideration akin to
swimming through a dense liquid - but this is an
interference effect); the bending is directly analogous to
causing a vehicle to turn by rotating the wheels on one
side slower than those on the other (the same effect also
causes climbing plants to curl around their supports, rate
of growth being inhibited on the side that's touching
something).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">*
Actually by the GRADIENT in such a field.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid navy
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">-----
Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"
title="chipakins@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Chip
Akins</a> <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
Monday, June 26, 2017 2:13 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Re:
[General] STR twin Paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Grahame<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Question.
Regarding your paper on gravity.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If the
attractive force between unlike charges is slightly larger
than the repulsive force between like charges, how do we
explain the refraction of light by gravitational fields?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Do you have a
copy of this paper you can share?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] STR twin Paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Al
et al.,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">"</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I'm
nervous about bringing gravity in. Really what it is,
is still too mysterious. Even for AE, it is just a
pregiven phenomena, his only goal was to quantify it.
But, perhaps it's an E&M residue resulting from the
disparity in mass between + and - charge carriers.</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">I'd
refer you once again to my paper 'Cosmic System
Dynamics: A Cyberneticist's Perspective on Gravitation'
(Kybernetes Vol 40 issue 9/10, Nov 2011, pp 1319-1330).
In this I show in some detail how the phenomenon
referred to as 'gravitation' can be fully explained in
every detail by simply recognising that attractive
forces between opposite charges and repelling forces
between like charges are NOT precisely equal (for unit
charges in each case). A tiny difference between these
two effects (for which there is NO scientific reason why
they should be identical) - attraction being
infinitesimally greater than repulsion - gives rise to
an overall attraction between 'ponderable masses'
precisely in accordance with every recorded
observation. This explanation could well also shed new
light on those effects attributed to 'dark matter' and
'dark energy' - another couple of what could well be
regarded as 'fiddle factors' comparable to Einstein's
'cosmological constant'. Like Einstein's CC they could,
rather, point to a feature of the cosmos that we have
overlooked or wrongly assumed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">If
one looks at it from this very simple perspective,
gravitation is far from being mysterious - it's simply a
2nd-order effect of 'electrostatic' attraction/repulsion
(which is itself an artefact of electromagnetic wave
interference between non-linear configurations of such
waves, i.e. particles of matter) - gravitation, as
another separate 'force' in its own right, doesn't
actually exist.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid navy
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">-----
Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
title="af.kracklauer@web.de" moz-do-not-send="true">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
general@lists...natureoflightandparticles.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Cc:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
general@lists...natureoflightandparticles.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:41 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Re:
[General] STR twin Paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">While
I am not completely confident that I fully
understand the objections, perhaps they have to do
with the following point. Ontological chages
occure at (or to) the source of E&M
interaction. Perspective changes happen to (or at)
the sink of E&M interaction---not just
sentient, passive observers. The actual, real
efffect from the source on a sink is physcially
altered by the relative (deleayed) position and
motion of the source. For one thing, it is
Gaussian diminished (i.e., reduced by 1/r**2). In
this sense, time-dilation, space-contraction are
real effects (but only as far as the sink is
concerned!). Sentient observers, such as those
emphasized by Wolf, are no more that a collection
of E&M sinks. So, the "obesrver" is taken
into account in this formulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I'm
nervious about bringing gravity in. Really what
it is, is still too mysterious. Even for AE, it
is just a pregiven phenomena, his only goal was to
quantify it. But, perhaps it"s an E&M residue
resulting from the disparity in mass between + and
- charge carriers. Who knows??? For what it's
worth! ---Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;WORD-WRAP:
break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
name="quote">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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align="center">
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