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<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>I'm sorry Wolf, but it seems that
you're still not getting it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>This situation can be explained fully
logically WITHOUT either twin making any assumptions about SR or GR - simply
from their own observations and from well-proven experimental
findings.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>If we label the twins A and B, then
their situations are effectively symmetric* - so we'll consider the scenario
from the viewpoint of twin A.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>A considers him/herself static, and
all motion to be attributable to twin B. So - and this agrees with
experimental observation of clocks at high speed (in planes and in GPS
satellites) - twin A will observe twin B's clock running slow, if A's own
clock is not upset by any effect. HOWEVER, since A is actually travelling
in circular motion, (s)he will experience a centripetal force; assuming
him/herself to be static, this will necessarily be attributed to gravitational
effects - and it's well known from experiment (Pound-Rebka and successors) that
gravitational fields cause time dilation - so A will expect their own clock to
be running more slowly also due to that 'gravitational' effect (note that this
is not any assumption of SR or GR, simply inference from proven experimental
results) [and so also A's observation of B's clock, measured against A's own
clock, will not fit the standard SR time-dilation model, for reasons that A will
fully comprehend]. For A, the cumulative time-dilation for B's
perceived relative speed and for A's own perceived 'gravitational' effect
exactly balance - so A will fully expect both clocks to coincide when the twins
meet again (as B will also).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>No paradox.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>* It needs to be said that further
study of causation of 'relativistic time dilation' leads to the understanding
that this is an objective effect due to travelling at speed relative to the
unique objectively-static universal reference frame. So if the centre of
the circle traced out by A and B is itself in motion relative to that reference
frame then it cannot be assumed that A's and B's motions will be symmetric; in
that case their clocks may well not be precisely synchronised on their
meeting again. This is an observation relating to physical reality, which
in no way contradicts the self-consistency of SR (or GR) as a mathematical
system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>Best regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>Grahame</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000080 size=2 face=Arial>=======</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wolf@nascentinc.com href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com">Wolfgang
Baer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 26, 2017 3:09
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [General] [NEW] SRT twin
Paradox</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear John W, Grahame nd Albrecht:<BR>
<DIV class=moz-forward-container>
<P></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>I cannot let this request for help go unanswered: </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I do not believe we have a any fundamental disagreement
with the twin paradox. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It never
was anything more than a semantic problem. If two twins with identical and
locally synchronized clocks are set on equal circular orbits in opposite
directions and meet again and compare clocks, I believe it is an experimental
fact that the clocks will run at the same rate (neglecting solar gravity if
experiments are conducted near earth)</P>
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<p class=MsoNormal>21</p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Mass</p>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Fig 1</P></DIV><!--[if
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN>The appearance of a twin paradox in my opinion is completely due to
Einstein’s sloppy writing. In his 1905 paper, which I looked up, he explicitly
stated that a clock making a round trip at velocity “v” will slow down
compared with a stationary observer. The argument that both observers applying
Einstein’s theory would NOT come to this paradoxical conclusion is based on an
interpretation by a host of well meaning physicists of Einstein’s original
paper that suggests that each observer, knowing relativity would use this
knowledge analyze the situation as shown in figure 1 above and therefore not
expect the other clock to slow down. As Kracklauer correctly pointed out that
there is an original SRT that had the twin paradox people justly criticized
Einstein for it and a slightly revised SRT that explains it away is usually
not mentioned. I think we all understand this and I have no argument with
Albrecht on this point.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Now however I insist that the speed of light is NOT
constant because it depends upon the situation the material (observer
material) finds itself in a gravitational field. As long as the field in that
material is fairly homogeneous the speed of light in that observers material
is representative of the speed of EM interactions and is constant. And
recognizing this dependency is critical to making progress in physics by
eliminating the crazy adjustments to classical physics the wrog interpretation
of bith SRT and GRT has hoisted upon us.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Now Albrecht correctly states that synchrotron experiments
show that the speed of light is constant and the mass is varying. </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
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<p class=MsoNormal>~c speed of light</p>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Now we have the situation of a charged particle traveling
around a circular orbit. Like the Bohr model of the Hydrogen atom, except much
faster. Now my CAT theory assumes that charge and mass are held together by a
Force that I have introduced for example in the Vigier 9 paper. This means the
internal structure of the orbiting electron would be expanded and the extra
energy is stored not in a mass increase but in the stretch of the spring
metaphorically holding the two together.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="mso-tab-count: 1">
</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Interestingly enough both
particles woul exhibit an internal rotation I believe is spin. I think I could
duplicate Sommerfelds fine structure correction but have not had the time to
do so and <B>would welcome help</B>.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>But I thing I have a new and better interpretation od both
SRT and GRT - I've been trying to get this across to Albrecht and I believe we
now have tangible analysis problem before us to resolve our
disagreement<BR></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>So let me steer the conversation to this new challenge</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best wishes</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Wolf</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR></P><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</A></PRE>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>On 8/25/2017 7:48 AM, Albrecht Giese wrote:</DIV>
<P>Dear John W and Grahame,</P>
<P><BR></P>
<P>I think that I should explain a bit about this discussion between Wolf and
myself. Why this discussion is as it is.<BR></P>
<P><BR></P>
<P>I find the topic of Wolf about conciousness very interesting and very
important. So I have continued with this discussion. But, unfortunately in my
view, Wolf is basing his thoughts on a wrong understanding of relativity. The
finds that this "incorrect" theory 'SRT' is an indication of our human failure
to understand physics and so of our misleading consciousness. - But not SRT is
incorrect (as some of you have already and repeatedly written) but Wolf's
understanding is wrong. - I am trying to give Wolf a correct understanding as
a precondition for a successful development of the issue of consciousness. I
see that this may be boring for those who have understood relativity. But what
else can we do to get ahead?</P>Any ideas?<BR><BR>Albrecht<BR><BR></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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