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<p>Andrew:</p>
<p>I realy like you paper because I think the whole topic of how a
photon if ther is such a thing has a volume in physical space is
an important but not often discussed topic. It is my understanding
that the size of a photon is determined by the constraints i.e.
the boundary conditions</p>
<p>However your idea that light even in vacuum focuses is
intriguing. i understand how lasers can ionize air and create a
wave guide , which is wat you used because i can visualize a tube
of ionic substance. I have trouble when the taking that
visualization to a vacuum and wonder if we are ot ultimately
talking about an aether of some kind.</p>
<p>wolf <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/21/2017 6:48 AM, Andrew Meulenberg
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOODe7HmsUM=9OQgniH8LkTOZnjr-dq23LWtSjYA2rGFvJ7GjA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear Chip,<br>
<br>
</div>
I've quickly gone thru your paper and find a lot of common
ground (often separated by language, sometimes by concept).
There are many things that I would comment on had I the
time. Over the next couple of years I should be able to do
so.<br>
<br>
</div>
A couple notes to start with;<br>
<ol>
<li>You talk of energy causing 'displacements' of space. I
would say that energy is a result/measure of 'distortions'
of space. There is little actual difference between
displacements and distortions. However, causality is an
important issue. You make the case for energy as the
causal agent and I cannot deny that energy is required to
distort space. However, what is the source of that energy?
We can go back to the Big Bang; but, I don't think that we
are going to solve the problem. Thus, I should not
complain about your choices here.<br>
</li>
<li><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">You
make a very important statement in the paper, the
consequences of which I have never seen published or
properly taught: "Experiment seems to
indicate that the spin angular momentum of the electron
is the same <i><u>when measured from any direction</u>."
</i>Do you have any references for it? Recognition of
this fact (?), many years ago, led me to my present view
of the electron and, apparently, also led you to yours.
I have not seen it discussed on this forum, where it is
crucial; but, not being active I may have missed it. So
I have started a new chain.<br>
</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-left:40px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">No
material body (gas, liquid, or solid) can have this
property of a fixed angular momentum in any/all
directions. Quantum mechanics put this concept into the
realm of QM 'magic' (e.g., "It is quantum number, not a
real, physical, angular momentum"). On the other hand,
light, being able to travel thru light without net
interaction, can provide exactly what is observed. If
bound in a spherical shell, it can have equal ang mom in <u>all</u>
directions. I thought that I had written this up in one of
my Nature of Light Conference papers, but, if I did, I
can't find it readily (parts of it are in </span>A.
Meulenberg, “The photonic soliton,” Proc. SPIE 8832, The
Nature of Light: What are Photons? V, 88320M (October 1,
2013); doi:10.1117/12.2022001) attached<span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">.
I apparently did not have time or space to extend the
story of photon self confinement to its self confinement
to form an electron<br>
<br>
The transmission of light thru light in a bound system is
seen in the standing waves of <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering-gallery_wave#Whispering-gallery_waves_for_light"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whispering-gallery_wave#Whispering-gallery_waves_for_light</a>.
If self bound in a wavelength (electron) dimension, rather
than in a multi-micron sphere of the picture. The
Goos-Haenscen (<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goos%E2%80%93H%C3%A4nchen_effect"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goos%E2%80%93H%C3%A4nchen_effect</a>)
or </span>Imbert–Fiodaraŭ (<span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect</a>)
effects will cause a photon to shift it alignment as it
wraps around, and interferes with, itself in a spherical
geometry (resulting in ang mom in all directions), rather
than in a cylindrical geometr</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">y
(with fixed ang mom)</span>.<b> I think that this
picture becomes the incontrovertible evidence for the
bound-photon model of the electron.</b><br>
<br>
While your view and mine for ang mom (and the charge
separation of components) of a photon apparently differ, I
believe them to be mathematically equivalent, if your
model is slightly extended. Your pairs of orthogonal
components can represent ang mom vectors in <u>any</u>
direction. If you take a linear sum of all your pairs,
then you can model the observed ang mom vector in <u>all</u>
directions.<br>
<br>
</span></div>
Since the above two points will likely elicit a major
discussion, I will stop here and continue later as to how our
models of the photon, as composed of two charge components,
both correspond and differ.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"></span>
<div><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">.Andrew
M.<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">PS
When I taught physics lab to engineering students many
year ago, I had to often emphasize the concept of
significant figures. Just because their calculators could
give results to 8 decimal places, this did not improve the
significance by writing all of them. They needed to use
other criteria for how many decimal places they should
include in their answers. Your use of 15 decimal places in
most of your results indicates that you did not get such a
lesson.<br>
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">_ _ _ _<br>
<br>
Aug 19, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Chip Akins <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chipakins@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div
class="gmail-m_-7648558596193364888m_5709144914947945810WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">Hi Andrew</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">I have been
thinking about you recently. Some of
the research I have been doing
reminded me of some of the things you
suggested earlier about the nature of
the photon and electron.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Once you talked
about how it appears that an electron
is made of a “rectified” half of a
photon.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">I have come to a
similar conclusion, but got there from
a completely different approach.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">If you are
interested please read the attached
paper.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Warmest Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">Hi All</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">Attached is a
paper on electric charge. It
approaches the subject from a
completely different perspective.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">Please comment.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Chip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
General [mailto:<a
href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">general-bounces+chipak<wbr>ins</a>=<a
href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gmail.com@lists.natureofli<wbr>ghtandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Meulenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 03, 2017
3:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion <<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightan<wbr>dparticles.org</a>></span></p>
<div>
<div
class="gmail-m_-7648558596193364888h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] charged
photons</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail-m_-7648558596193364888h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">Dear
John,</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">I
look forward to your new paper.
If it is based on a
time-dependent model, then it
could address: several problems
with the 'common' interpretation
of QM, Wilczek's concept of
sequestration, and my view of
phase transitions rather than
quantum jumps.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew M.</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">_
_ _ </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:03
AM, John Williamson <<a
href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a><wbr>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="border-width:medium
medium medium
1pt;border-style:none
none none
solid;border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor
currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Hello
Richard,<br>
<br>
I think the
mechanism for
photon radiation
from an electron
is an overlap of
a specific field
configuration
with an internal
electron
wave-function.
The electron
wave-function
contains both
mass-like and
field-like
components. If
one overlaps
this with a
specific field
configuration -
equal and
perpendicular
(but static)
electric and
magnetic fields,
the resultant
cancels the mass
like terms and
the result is a
copy of the
original
wave-function,
but at lower
energy, plus is
a PROPAGATING
pure field part
of the
resultant. the
propagating part
is quantised if
the emitting
charge is
quantised (which
it usually is).
The reverse
process is also
possible -
propagating
field converted
to localised
energy. That is
the internal
electron
wave-function
acts as a
generator or
absorber of
photons. This
process is
described,
though not very
well, in my
first SPIE
paper. There is
also a (much
better
explained)
version nearly
ready to submit.
Will copy this
to the group
when I send it
off.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.</span></p>
<div>
<div
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="color:black">
<hr size="2"
align="center"
width="100%"></span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-7648558596193364888m_5709144914947945810m_-7295576810799490141divRpF193762">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
General
[general-bounces+john.williams<wbr>on=<a
href="mailto:glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureo<wbr>flightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of
Richard
Gauthier [<a
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday,
August 02,
2017 6:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b>
Andrew
Meulenberg<br>
<b>Cc:</b>
Nature of
Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion;
Hans Montanus<br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re: [General]
charged
photons</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Hello Andrew, John W and all,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> Andrew, thanks for the link. A Weyl fermion,
though not the
same as a
spin-1/2
charged
photon, could
be a step in
this
direction,
since a Weyl
fermion is a
massless
chiral
fermion. It
also has not
been detected
as a separate
fundamental
particle.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> By the way, a new colleague Hans Montanus wrote
to me recently
“For all the
photon models
for the
electron,
always the
question
raises to me:
how can photon
be radiated
off from an
accelerating
electron? If
the electron
is a circling
(or double
circling in
the toroidal
model) photon,
then it rather
is a photon
radiated off
from an
accelerating
(the circling
photon as a
whole) photon.
Similarly,
pair creation
would mean two
circling
photons coming
of from a
single (usual,
non circling)
photon. Do you
know if there
are models for
such
processes?”</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> Do you have any thoughts on these questions
about
radiation of a
photon from an
accelerated
circling
photon, and
pair creation
from a single
non-circling
photon?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> Richard</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">On Aug 1, 2017, at 4:16 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mules333@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black">Dear Richard,</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">We have demonstrated experimentally that photons can
exhibit
fermionic as
well as
bosonic
natures. The
charged-photon
model, as a
transient
during the
transition
between photon
and lepton
pair, can be
supported
theoretically
as well. It
may be
possible to
use additional
concepts to
support your
model:</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:30pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><br>
<a
href="http://www.nature.com/news/big-bang-gravitational-effect-observed-in-lab-crystal-1.22338"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.nature.com/news/big<wbr>-bang-gravitational-effect-obs<wbr>erved-in-lab-crystal-1.22338</a></span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black">The Weyl Fermion, (<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyl_semimetal" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki<wbr>/Weyl_semimetal</a>),
as a charged,
massless,
particle,
might be worth
exploring in
that context.
</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:black">I don't have time
to explore the
concept myself
right now;
but, I would
be interested
in your
comments, if
you (or
others) do get
the
opportunity to
look at it.</span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Andrew M.</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="margin-left:30pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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