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<p>Yes thank you, I've noticed we are on the same quest. Groping in
the dark but one of us will hit on something</p>
<p>best wishes</p>
<p>Wolf<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/13/2017 8:37 AM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Wolf B.: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">You have
said:</span> “<i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0000CC">But that involves
giving up the notion of a fixed objective reality and
moving toward a n acknowledgement of a Kantian unknowable
about which we make models that express our best guess and
judge them based on success.”<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0000CC"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Yes! We are
forever stuck by partial knowledge about the complex Cosmic
Elephant. That is why we, the blinds, must accept that there
is no un-changing firm foundation in this universe for us to
walk on. The ultimate truth is that we, humans have not yet
figured out how to access “the only truth, and nothing but
the truth” about our universe. Plato’s story alerts us about
the limits of measurements. But, the Asian elephant story
guides us to work together synthesizing our diverse
cognition capabilities, ITERATIVELY and PERPETUALLY. [See my
paper at our last SPIE Conference of 2015; attached.] Nature
is a logically self-consistent and marvelously creative
system engineer. It is futile to think that we can grasp her
reality: (i) by pure life-long mediation alone, (ii) by pure
spiritualism and religion alone, (iii) by pure philosophy
alone, (iv) by pure mathematics alone, or (v) by pure
experimental observations alone.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">This is why
we need “five” groups of “blind men” to keep collaborating
iteratively and perpetually forever and keep on advancing
towards understanding the meaning and the purpose of this
universe and what the roles of humans should be.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Even though
we do not want to recognize this reality, we already have
figured out that if we keep at it, (i) by creating logically
consistent postulates, (ii) by structuring them using
self-consistent mathematics, (iii) by repeatedly validating
through “unbiased” experiments, we are getting better and
better glimpse about the invisible Cosmic Elephant.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">My current
belief is that the universe is a Complex Tension Field. The
Cosmic Elephant is elusive to us because everything
observable are just harmonic oscillations of this tension
field. Of course, this is just one postulate by one “blind
man” to build a unified field theory of everything. Current
working theories have been built upon sets of limited
postulates that were never meant to be integrated into one.
That is why it is futile to keep on trying to force fit
these theories into one unified theory. We have to start
from the very bottom again with the explicit purpose of
building a unified theory. We first need to develop several
different self-congruent SETS OF POSTULATES, and then keep
trying to build different sets of unified field theories and
keep testing which one is more congruent with diverse
observations compared to others.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Andrew Meulenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] What holds mass and charge
together<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I agree
with Grahame. Separating charge and mass is like
separating electricity and magnetism.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 9:32 AM,
Dr Grahame Blackwell <<a
href="mailto:grahame@starweave.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">grahame@starweave.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Wolf
(et al.),</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">(diagrams
dropped, with chain of other previous
emails.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">In
my view there is absolutely no issue as to
what holds mass and charge together -
neither is an object, to be 'held' to
anything else, they are both effects. There
seems little doubt that both of those
effects are artefacts of the fundamental
content of a massive charged particle -
namely its formative energy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">It's
very simply shown that if a particle is
moving then its energy content must increase
in exactly the way described (without
explanation) in SR - this is fully apparent
from the Relativistic Energy-Momentum
Relation; this is inertial mass, the
requirement for that additional energy to
maintain the structural integrity of the
particle. Likewise it's totally apparent
from interference effects demonstrated in
respect of massive particles that charge
also must be an artefact of that formative
energy. So the very concept that they could
possibly be separated, and so need holding
together, makes absolutely no sense to me.
I Kant see the point of even discussing it!
(Sorry, that pun may not translate very
well!)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">[As
a point of detail, that energy is also its
gravitational mass, for other reasons
arising directly from that energy.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">-----
Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"
target="_blank"
title="wolf@nascentinc.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Wolfgang Baer</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"
target="_blank" title="phys@a-giese.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">Albrecht Giese</a>
;
<a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"
title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:35 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
[General] What holds mass and charge
together<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p>Chandra and Albrecht:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I fully agree with the Plato's shadow analogy
and the realization that we have been building
a physics that explains the shadows not the
reality is very clear. But that involves
giving up the notion of a fixed objective
reality and moving toward a n acknowledgement
of a Kantian unknowable about which we make
models that express our best guess and judge
them based on success.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It involves returning to simple examples and
testing the logic of our assumptions. Toward
this end I have returned to the old simple
experimants the utilize the concept of mass
and charge as the most understandable
properties of matter. One of the central
assumptions in physics is that of a point
particle which places all properties of the
particle and specifically the source and sink
of mass and charge centers at a co-located
point.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>So I ask what holds charge and mass together?
what kind of physics would we have if there
were a force Fcm and Fmc between charge and
mass and mass and charge.<o:p></o:p></p>
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