<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello Martin, <div class="">You must have been accidentally left off of the reply list. So I am forwarding Wolf’s latest reply which is directed partly to you. You can send any reply back to <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a> . You are also welcome to join the discussion group if you like.</div><div class=""> with warm regards,</div><div class=""> Richard<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Wolfgang Baer <<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" class="">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [General] A composite electron?</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">September 23, 2017 at 11:14:31 PM PDT<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Reply-To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">I looked at Martin's <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US" class=""></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US" class=""><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299636714_Kinematical_Theory_of_Elementary_Spinning_Particles_Lecture_Notes" class="">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299636714_Kinematical_Theory_of_Elementary_Spinning_Particles_Lecture_Notes</a><br class="">
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">and was
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</p><p class="MsoNormal">Quite interested in several problems he
discussed. First the
question of how to address charge separation from mass when
charge<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" class=""> </span>cancels to a
neutral. I’ve had the same thoughts that somehow one must treat
the
centers of positive and negative charge separately and then put
them together.
I do not know if he is listening but one idea I have been
mulling through is
that the sign of charge is somehow associated with the observers
time , so that
plus and minus charge is associated with before and after the
observers now.
Just a wiff of something going through my head.</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal">The other however is the force relationship
between the
Lorenz force on one side and the Newtonian force on the mass </p><p class="MsoNormal">He then equates the two but that leaves a
separate pull on a
charge and one on a mass. So I’ve postulated a force holding the
two together
and approximated the force between charge and mass as Fcm and
its opposite Fmc
as two additional forces that must happen inside material and
have been trying
to connect them to the weak and strong force, but without
success. Mainly
because I do not know that much about elementary particles.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> But it is clear to me that we have two
parallel systems of
force categories when looking at material from the outside. One
is
Electromagnetic governed by Maxwell and the Lorenz force on
charges the other
is Gravito-inertial forces governed by Einstein </p><p class="MsoNormal">We just assume charge and mass must be held
together or
these two force types would operate completely independently and
we would have
nothing of the kind of material we actually experience.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> I’ve modeled such internal force simply by a
spring with a
spring constant that is infinity when we assume charge and mass
are co located,
but then as the spring constant become finite all kinds of
interesting effects
can happen. One I’ve asked Albrecht to look at is to see if we
consider the
Bohr atom and assume that the central force between proton and
electron pulls
the mass and charges apart slightly. The coulomb force would be
a bit greater
since the inertial balancing force would pull the mass outward.
<br class="">
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1" class=""> </span>Would
such
a system account for the fine structure? And would we get
Sommerfelds fine
structure constant out of it. I do not have the background to do
such a calculation
but wish I could find someone who could do it or have a
reference to someone
who has done it.If you get any leads on thios kind of thing let
me know</p><p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps Martin if you are listening could
shed light on this problem with his Kinem,atic Theory of
elementary particles?<br class="">
</p><p class="MsoNormal">best for now</p><p class="MsoNormal">Wolf<br class="">
</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<br class="">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US" class=""></span><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/22/2017 9:36 PM, Andrew Meulenberg
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAOODe7HnNOrp8eeMwho+Fra+Cbp7PrLWEtsiUV-NEgaASbqkFA@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Dear Wolf,<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
This whole concept is new to me (only weeks old), so i
can't recommend anything yet. I'm just trying to find the
time to scan/read what looks promising. However, it may be
something to draw a number of models together (given a
little 'wiggle-room'). . <br class="">
<br class="">
One of the questions to be addressed is certainly on what
holds the centers together. So, your thoughts could be
very important. My first instinct is to look at the
whirlpool effect as exemplified by the Falaco effect (see
various papers <cite class="">like</cite><font size="2" class=""><span style="" class=""><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0101098" moz-do-not-send="true" class=""><cite class=""> </cite>Falaco
solitons, cosmic strings in a swimming pool</a></span></font><font size="2" class=""><span style="" class=""> RM Kiehn -
arXiv preprint gr-qc/0101098, 2001 - <a href="http://arxiv.org/" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">arxiv.org</a></span></font><font size="2" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></font><cite class="gmail-_Rm">).</cite> I am slow with the
mathematics; nevertheless, I find the concept to be useful
and now I can apply it to the polarizability of, and
forces between, two centers. My preference at the moment
is to assume relativity and 3-space + time.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Richard has shown that his charged photon concept has wiggle
room and therefore it is probably compatible with my present
concepts (which also have wiggle room). Both of our models
may be compatible with a 2-center model. <br class="">
<br class="">
I fear that Albrecht's twin particle model may not be given
the wiggle room to incorporate the two-center model. If so,
that is too bad, because both models might benefit from the
comparison.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Since my twins were born, I have not had time to keep up with
most of the discussions of this forum. (This lack of time is
the result of a different 2-center model. Just this evening, I
had two pair of glasses, which I had left on my laptop, nearly
destroyed.) So pointing out important threads might be
necessary to bring me up-to-speed on some of the things
presented as they pertain to the present discussion.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Andrew M.<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">_________________<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at
9:20 PM, Wolfgang Baer <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Andrew:</p><p class="">I've been working on the concept of charge
and mass center differences and forces thaT
MAY HOLD THEM TOGETHER <br class="">
</p><p class="">You mention quite a few papers which one or
which set would you recommend to find out
more about what has been proposed?</p><p class="">And yes I have suggested this to Albrecht
but he has not felt it was what he has in
mind, his idea is that the two rotating
chrges are purely a elecromagnetic strong or
weak force, I cannot remember which</p><p class="">Wolf<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="gmail-m_-1269926569750692385moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="gmail-m_-1269926569750692385moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="">
<div class="gmail-h5">
<div class="gmail-m_-1269926569750692385moz-cite-prefix">On
9/20/2017 2:45 PM, Andrew Meulenberg
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail-h5">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Dear Richard and Albrecht,<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Richard has expressed doubts about
Albrecht's 2-body electron and
Albrecht probably has reservations
about Richard's charged photons.<br class="">
<br class="">
I just read a paper ("The
dynamical equation of the spinning
electron," J. Phys. A, 36, 4703,
(2003), and also LANL
ArXiv:physis/0112005, along.with
some background papers) that
Richard has referenced in his: The
Dirac Equation and the
Superluminal Electron Model (<a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://richardgauthier.<wbr class="">academia.edu/research#papers</a>).
I found a concept with which I was
previously unfamiliar: the centers
of mass and charge being
different. If this interesting
concept is valid; then it might be
possible that the two centers are
the 'objects' that Albrecht has
proposed for his composite
electron. It might also apply to
the charged photon.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Has anyone any comments on this
concept (or n the author of the
paper: Martin Rivas)?<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
Andrew M<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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