<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
color:black;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi Al<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Yes. But we can find out a tremendous amount by observing what we can. The specific behaviors caused by various circumstances tell us much more than just the fact that charges move masses. What we can observe yields many clues because it discloses certain rules and patterns to the reactions. No need to give up just because our ability to sense these things is limited. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>af.kracklauer@web.de<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<br><b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi All:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>"Charge" to be; or, not to be? Be definition a two-gender charateristic of particles with mass to be attacted given similar genders, and repelled given dissimilar genders. (Note: gender is determined in terms of what they do.) Thus, the attraction or repelling is defined in terms of the motion of the charge-carrying masses. In other words there is nothing to be said about the whole matter except what the "charged" masses do dynamically. This is exactly what happens in practice. Currents are manipulated in sending antennes and measured as photocurrents in receiving antennas. This means that, nothing can be said about the interaction (attracting or repelling) but only about the motion of the masses; all the rest is inferance. Including waves, photons, magic bullets, whatever! Logically this inference is indeterminable separate from the motion of the only observable, the masses. Might as well say: "God does it; basta!" Maybe God is a photon!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space' name=quote><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> Dienstag, 26. September 2017 um 20:59 Uhr<br><b>Von:</b> "Francois Henault" <<a href="mailto:francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr">francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr</a>><br><b>An:</b> "Andrew Meulenberg" <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>>, "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div name=quoted-content><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dear Andrew,</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Yes, I borrowed the term "different" from Dirac's original sentence, but I fully agree with you</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Best Regards,</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Francois</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Le 26/09/2017 à 17:26, Andrew Meulenberg a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dear Francois,<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I liked the inversion of Dirac's statement in your abstract of an earlier paper (below). <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='margin-left:30.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>"Simple alternative model of the dual nature of light and its Gedanken experiment"<a href="https://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Henault_F/0/1/0/all/0/1" target="_blank"> F. Henault</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>In this paper is presented a simple alternative model of the dual nature of light, based on the deliberate inversion of the original statement from P. A. M. Dirac: "Each photon interferes only with itself. <b>Interference between different photons never occurs."</b><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>While it makes what I feel is a needed refinement of Chandra/s Non-Interference of Waves position, it perhaps still misses something that Dirac might not have been aware of - the existence of identical photons. Your use of "different" <u>could</u> preclude "identical"; however, the language is ambiguous and it could also include separate, but identical, photons.<br><br>I would contend that identical photons (and perhaps the recently-produced, single-wavelength, photons) could interact with one another.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Best regards,<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Andrew M<br>_ _ _<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:05 AM, François henault <<a href="mailto:francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr" target="_blank">francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dear Chandra,<br>About interferometric experiments, perhaps you could have a look to my paper "Quantum physics and the beam splitter mystery" presented in your SPIE conference "The Nature of Light" 2015:<br><br><a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.00393" target="_blank">https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.00393</a><br><br><br>Best Regards,<br>Francois</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Le 25/09/2017 à 23:56, Roychoudhuri, Chandra a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Hello Everybody: Here is a potentially new “thread” for debate for our community.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>“Can a single indivisible photon interfere?”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>My answer is a strong “No”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>I just presented this paper at the OSA Annual meeting last week, held at Washington, DC. It was well accepted by many.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>It is only an 11-slide presentation. However, it experimentally demonstrates that, for Superposition Effect to emerge, we must have the simultaneous presence of two physical signals carrying two physically different phase information incident on the opposite sides of the beam-combiner of a two-beam Mach-Zehnder interferometer. The superposition effect emerges as purely a classical effect facilitated by the dielectric boundary of the beam combiner (classical light-matter interaction; no QM). The energies in the two superposed beams can have any value, no lower limit like “h-nu”. Thus, single photon interference is causally and physically an untenable logic, in my view point.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>The experiment also underscores that the postulate of the “Wave-particle duality”, is completely unnecessary for EM waves. In fact, the Copenhagen Interpretation becomes more logical and causal without this postulate. The QM formulation is essentially correct. We do not need to degrade it by imposing non-causal postulates.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>In the past, I have also proposed an experiment to validate that for “particle interference”, we also need pairs of out-of-phase particles to nullify the stimulation of the detector molecule to generate “dark fringes”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Chandra. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><pre style='background:white'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr" target="_blank">francois.henault@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/francois.henault%40univ-grenoble-alpes.fr?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/francois.henault%40univ-grenoble-alpes.fr?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='background:white'>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>François Hénault<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Ingénieur de Recherche<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Institut de Planétologie et d’Astrophysique de Grenoble (IPAG)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>UMR CNRS 5274<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Bâtiment OSUG-A, Porte 65<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>414, Rue de la Piscine <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Université Grenoble-Alpes - B.P.53<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>F-38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Tel: +33 (0)4 76 63 57 78<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><br>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank">mules333@gmail.com</a><br><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=58 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=473 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Garanti sans virus. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avg.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='background:white'>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>François Hénault<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Ingénieur de Recherche<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Institut de Planétologie et d’Astrophysique de Grenoble (IPAG)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>UMR CNRS 5274<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Bâtiment OSUG-A, Porte 65<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>414, Rue de la Piscine <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Université Grenoble-Alpes - B.P.53<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>F-38041 Grenoble Cedex 9 <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>Tel: +33 (0)4 76 63 57 78<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'>__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a> <a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">Click here to unsubscribe </a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>