<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Hello all,</div>Forwarding an email from Jack Sarfatti containing good links to single photon detection experiments and wave-particle duality (see quote from John Bell).<div class=""> Richard<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">JACK SARFATTI <<a href="mailto:jsarfatti@aol.com" class="">jsarfatti@aol.com</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: Berlin - Yakir weak measurements</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">September 26, 2017 at 4:14:58 PM PDT<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">"<a href="mailto:foundationsofmind@googlegroups.com" class="">foundationsofmind@googlegroups.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:foundationsofmind@googlegroups.com" class="">foundationsofmind@googlegroups.com</a>><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><i class=""><br class=""></i></font></div><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><i class="">On Sep 26, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Menas Kafatos <<a href="mailto:menas@kafatos.com" class="">menas@kafatos.com</a>> wrote:</i></font></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506465594791_28033" dir="ltr" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506465594791_28493" class="" face="Times New Roman"><i class="">… So meanwhile a quantum physics and quantum technology meeting in Berlin, lots of good physics, published papers. On Josephson junctions, quantum dots, quantum computing, foundations of QM. Yakir Aharonov and I gave separate keynote talks. Physicists from NIST, USA, Chapman, UMD, Wisconsin, several other US centers, Tel Aviv, Weizmann/Israel, Max Planck/Germany, several centers in Germany and France, Sussex/UK, Moscow State, etc. Yakir talked about weak measurements and what new elements they bring out in standard QM.</i></font></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1506465594791_28034" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div>Reference? URL?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My point to Nick Herbert is that Bohm’s particle trajectories are operationally defined by Yakir’s theory of weak measurements as actually carried out by Steinberg in Toronto. The Bohm quantum potential Q goes through both slits, the trajectories only through one and there is a clear boundary between them as shown in Towler’s picture below. The Chinese paper cited by Nick does not refute that prediction of Bohm’s 1952 pilot wave picture.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Furthermore, as shown by Rod Sutherland, in agreement with Yakir himself (and Huw Price), is that local retrocausality is the best way to understand QM entanglement. Weak measurements are a deeper structure to von Neumann’s strong measurements.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="8159E5E7-F8F6-4F62-99FA-02C283800118" width="456" height="568" class="" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:592AF4D8-9C52-42CF-B680-0B8066402ECA@hsd1.ca.comcast.net"></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="mod" data-md="61" style="clear: none; padding-top: 16px; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; padding-left: 16px; padding-right: 16px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><div class="_oDd" data-hveid="44" style="overflow: hidden; padding-bottom: 20px;"><span class="_Tgc" style="font-size: 16px;">We sent <b class="">single photons</b> emitted by a quantum dot through a double-slit interferometer and reconstructed these <b class="">trajectories</b> by performing a weak measurement of the <b class="">photon</b> momentum, postselected according to the result of a strong measurement of <b class="">photon</b> position in a series of planes.</span></div></div><div class="g" style="line-height: 1.2; font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif; margin: 0px; clear: both; padding-bottom: 16px; padding-left: 16px; padding-right: 16px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><div data-hveid="46" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQFQguKAAwAQ" class=""><div class="rc" style="position: relative; clear: both; padding-bottom: 0px;"><h3 class="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; white-space: nowrap;"><a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/1170" class="" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 153); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Observing the Average Trajectories of Single Photons in a Two-Slit ...</a></h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 48em; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); line-height: 18px;"><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px; white-space: nowrap;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/1170" class="">science.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/1170</a></cite></div><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px; white-space: nowrap;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><br class=""></cite></div><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px; white-space: nowrap;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><div class="g" style="line-height: 1.2; font-size: small; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><div data-hveid="78" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQFQhOKAMwBQ" class=""><div class="rc" style="position: relative;"><h3 class="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis;"><a href="http://materias.df.uba.ar/labo5Aa2012c2/files/2012/10/Weak-measurement.pdf" class="" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 153); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Observing the Average Trajectories of Single Photons in a Two-Slit ...</a></h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 48em; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); line-height: 18px;"><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://materias.df.uba.ar/labo5Aa2012c2/files/2012/10/Weak-measurement.pdf" class="">materias.df.uba.ar/labo5Aa2012c2/files/2012/10/Weak-measurement.pdf</a></cite><div class="ab_ctl action-menu" style="display: inline; position: relative; margin: 1px 3px 0px; -webkit-user-select: none; vertical-align: middle;"><a class="_Fmb ab_button" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=single+photon+trajectories&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#" id="am-b5" aria-label="Result details" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true" role="button" jsaction="m.tdd;keydown:m.hbke;keypress:m.mskpe" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQ7B0IUDAF" style="border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; 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z-index: 3; transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; left: 0px; visibility: hidden;"><ol class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MHGlEefmnggJ:materias.df.uba.ar/labo5Aa2012c2/files/2012/10/Weak-measurement.pdf+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li></ol></div></div></div><div class="slp f" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">by S Kocsis - <a class="fl" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=9147324149228536842" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(26, 13, 171); cursor: pointer;">Cited by 420</a> - <a class="fl" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&q=related:CoQeYNnS8X49SM:scholar.google.com/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(26, 13, 171); cursor: pointer;">Related articles</a></div><span class="st" style="line-height: 1.4; word-wrap: break-word;">We sent <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">single photons</span> emitted by a quantum dot through a double-slit interferometer and ... these <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">trajectories</span> by performing a weak measurement of the photon ...</span></div></div></div></div><div class="g" style="line-height: 1.2; font-size: small; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><div data-hveid="86" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQFQhWKAQwBg" class=""><div class="rc" style="position: relative;"><h3 class="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis;"><a href="https://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/96" class="" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 153); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Physics - Focus: Curvy Photon Trajectories Could Be Detectable</a></h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 48em; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); line-height: 18px;"><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/96" class="">https://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/96</a></cite><div class="ab_ctl action-menu" style="display: inline; position: relative; margin: 1px 3px 0px; -webkit-user-select: none; vertical-align: middle;"><a class="_Fmb ab_button" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=single+photon+trajectories&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#" id="am-b6" aria-label="Result details" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true" role="button" jsaction="m.tdd;keydown:m.hbke;keypress:m.mskpe" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQ7B0IWDAG" style="border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; cursor: default; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; height: 12px; line-height: 27px; margin: 1px 0px 2px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; transition: none; -webkit-transition: none; -webkit-user-select: none; background-color: white; background-image: none; border: 0px; color: rgb(128, 128, 128); box-shadow: 0px 0px 0px 0px; filter: none; width: 13px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block;"><span class="mn-dwn-arw" style="border-color: rgb(0, 102, 33) transparent; border-style: solid; border-width: 5px 4px 0px; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin-left: 3px; top: 7.5px; margin-top: -4px; position: absolute; left: 0px;"></span></a><div class="action-menu-panel ab_dropdown" role="menu" tabindex="-1" jsaction="keydown:m.hdke;mouseover:m.hdhne;mouseout:m.hdhue" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQqR8IWTAG" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 1px solid rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2); font-size: 13px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; right: auto; top: 12px; z-index: 3; transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; left: 0px; visibility: hidden;"><ol class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ufIK5q3gGeYJ:https://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/96+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=related:https://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/96+single+photon+trajectories&tbo=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQHwhbMAY" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li></ol></div></div></div><div class="slp f" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">by M Schirber - 2014 - <a class="fl" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&q=related:ExVZ7D-v1UKhFM:scholar.google.com/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(26, 13, 171); cursor: pointer;">Related articles</a></div><span class="st" style="line-height: 1.4; word-wrap: break-word;"><span class="f" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">Sep 19, 2014 - </span>Focus: Curvy <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">Photon Trajectories</span> Could Be Detectable ... at a specific case—a triple slit experiment with <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">single</span> infrared <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">photons</span> that Sinha and ...</span></div></div></div></div><div class="g" style="line-height: 1.2; font-size: small; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><div data-hveid="95" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQFQhfKAUwBw" class=""><div class="rc" style="position: relative;"><h3 class="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis;"><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2011/06/03/watching-photons-interfere-obs/" class="" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 153); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Watching Photons Interfere: “Observing the Average Trajectories of ...</a></h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 48em; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); line-height: 18px;"><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px;"><cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2011/06/03/watching-photons-interfere-obs/" class="">scienceblogs.com/principles/2011/06/03/watching-photons-interfere-obs/</a></cite><div class="ab_ctl action-menu" style="display: inline; position: relative; margin: 1px 3px 0px; -webkit-user-select: none; vertical-align: middle;"><a class="_Fmb ab_button" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=single+photon+trajectories&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#" id="am-b7" aria-label="Result details" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true" role="button" jsaction="m.tdd;keydown:m.hbke;keypress:m.mskpe" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQ7B0IYTAH" style="border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; cursor: default; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; height: 12px; line-height: 27px; margin: 1px 0px 2px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; transition: none; -webkit-transition: none; -webkit-user-select: none; background-color: white; background-image: none; border: 0px; color: rgb(128, 128, 128); box-shadow: 0px 0px 0px 0px; filter: none; width: 13px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block;"><span class="mn-dwn-arw" style="border-color: rgb(0, 102, 33) transparent; border-style: solid; border-width: 5px 4px 0px; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin-left: 3px; top: 7.5px; margin-top: -4px; position: absolute; left: 0px;"></span></a><div class="action-menu-panel ab_dropdown" role="menu" tabindex="-1" jsaction="keydown:m.hdke;mouseover:m.hdhne;mouseout:m.hdhue" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQqR8IYjAH" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 1px solid rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2); font-size: 13px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; right: auto; top: 12px; z-index: 3; transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; left: 0px; visibility: hidden;"><ol class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Gv50e4YNgwQJ:scienceblogs.com/principles/2011/06/03/watching-photons-interfere-obs/+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=related:scienceblogs.com/principles/2011/06/03/watching-photons-interfere-obs/+single+photon+trajectories&tbo=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQHwhkMAc" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li></ol></div></div></div><span class="st" style="line-height: 1.4; word-wrap: break-word;"><span class="f" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">Jun 3, 2011 - </span>Well, the title kind of says it all: they measured the average <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">trajectories</span> of <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">single photons</span> passing through a double-slit apparatus. By making ...</span></div></div></div></div><div class="g" style="line-height: 1.2; font-size: small; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 26px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><div data-hveid="102" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQFQhmKAYwCA" class=""><div class="rc" style="position: relative;"><h3 class="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis;"><a href="https://phys.org/news/2011-06-quantum-physics-photons-two-slit-interferometer.html" class="" style="color: rgb(102, 0, 153); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Quantum physics first: Researchers observe single photons in two-slit ...</a></h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 48em; color: rgb(84, 84, 84); line-height: 18px;"><div class="f _SWb kv" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); height: 18px; line-height: 16px;"><cite class="_Rm bc" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;"><a href="https://phys.org/" class="">https://phys.org</a> › Physics › Quantum Physics</cite><div class="ab_ctl action-menu" style="display: inline; position: relative; margin: 1px 3px 0px; -webkit-user-select: none; vertical-align: middle;"><a class="_Fmb ab_button" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=single+photon+trajectories&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#" id="am-b8" aria-label="Result details" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true" role="button" jsaction="m.tdd;keydown:m.hbke;keypress:m.mskpe" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQ7B0IaTAI" style="border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; cursor: default; font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; height: 12px; line-height: 27px; margin: 1px 0px 2px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; transition: none; -webkit-transition: none; -webkit-user-select: none; background-color: white; background-image: none; border: 0px; color: rgb(128, 128, 128); box-shadow: 0px 0px 0px 0px; filter: none; width: 13px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block;"><span class="mn-dwn-arw" style="border-color: rgb(0, 102, 33) transparent; border-style: solid; border-width: 5px 4px 0px; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin-left: 3px; top: 7.5px; margin-top: -4px; position: absolute; left: 0px;"></span></a><div class="action-menu-panel ab_dropdown" role="menu" tabindex="-1" jsaction="keydown:m.hdke;mouseover:m.hdhne;mouseout:m.hdhue" data-ved="0ahUKEwiTo8Hm-8PWAhVGHGMKHad_DqcQqR8IajAI" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 1px solid rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2); font-size: 13px; padding: 0px; position: absolute; right: auto; top: 12px; z-index: 3; transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-transition: opacity 0.218s; -webkit-box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; box-shadow: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2) 0px 2px 4px; left: 0px; visibility: hidden;"><ol class="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="action-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; -webkit-user-select: none; cursor: pointer;"><a class="fl" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GRccNiPnZ4EJ:https://phys.org/news/2011-06-quantum-physics-photons-two-slit-interferometer.html+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); cursor: pointer; display: block; padding: 7px 18px; outline: 0px; font-size: 14px;"></a></li></ol></div></div></div><span class="st" style="line-height: 1.4; word-wrap: break-word;"><span class="f" style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128);">Jun 2, 2011 - </span>More information: Observing the Average <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">Trajectories</span> of <span class="" style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(106, 106, 106);">Single Photons</span> in a Two -Slit Interferometer, Science 3 June 2011: Vol. 332 no.</span></div></div></div></div></cite></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 27, 2017, at 5:58 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Hi Chandra<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">I have read your presentation.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Maybe I am missing something, but I don’t currently see how this experiment in any way precludes the concept of light quanta (photons).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">The action of the BC can also be explained if light is in the form of photons.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">In order to have the detected signal as shown, there would be so many of the light quanta that it is quite reasonable to assume that two would arrive simultaneously at opposite sides of the BC with a phase relationship which would activate the BC in the manner observed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">What do you think I am missing?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Chip<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:43 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Andrew:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">You are accepting the traditional “particle” philosophy as<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">the final knowledge</i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for light that was started erroneously by Einstein since he wanted to “dare” Planck as a young kid. Planck, the original father of “quanta of light hν”, said in his 1913 book that only the absorptions and emissions are quantized during energy transfer. However, the emitted light packets diffractively diffuse within the blackbody cavity to establish steady-state EM energy density.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Einstein’s brilliance was in noticing the “quantumness” in the data for the photoelectric effect – below certain frequency, no electrons are released. However, instead of tying that quantumness to the universal binding energies of electrons in atoms, molecules and solids (quantum mechanical resonant dipole frequency), he assigned it to the classical wave packets of EM waves. [Please, see again my derivation of “Photoelectric equation using modern QM principle.] <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Had Einstein assigned this newly discovered quantumness to the electrons, he would have invented Quantum Mechanics some 20 years earlier in Einsteinian version. Then, we would not have been going through 112 years’ of, and counting, divisive debates as to “what are light quanta” and a sustained retardation in the progress in Physics.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">By the way, Einstein did say, shortly before his death that, in spite of 50 years’ of brooding over “what are light quanta”, he still was confused. It is this statement, which has inspired me to create the SPIE forum (now closed) and this on-going web-forum. This is one of the key reasons that we should conceptually challenge the prevailing acceptance of “indivisible light quanta”; in spite of all the follow-on theories quantizing classical EM waves.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">This is why I have proposed:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">Photons are transient but real physical entities, which facilitate the quantum mechanically released energy packets to evolve into classical wave packets.</i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>This makes fundamental QM as a correct theory. Dirac’s “a” and “a-dagger” are nothing more than quantum mechanical transitions experienced by quantum dipoles.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Let us recognize that the field of optical science and engineering could not have emerged and thrived for centuries without the classical Huygens-Fresnel diffraction integral and Maxwell’s wave equation. No optical scientist or engineers have figured out how to propagate “indivisible light quanta” to design diverse optical instruments, interferometers, fiber optic propagation modes, etc., etc. So, I have more faith in optical engineering tools than accepting the unnecessary postulate of “indivisible light quanta”.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">The interferometer experiment that I have presented, clearly shows that the superposition effect could be completely classical depending upon the optical arrangement and the detection method used. By the way, this is a routine experiment that is being done by innumerable students around the world since the availability of coherent laser beams. The classical dielectric boundary of the beam-combiner re-directs energy from one beam to the other; and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">both the beams must be physically present simultaneously</i></b>. So, an “indivisible light quanta” cannot generate this interference effect. In this set up, theoretically and experimentally, you do not need the postulate of the “minimum quantum of energy” until you bring in a modern quantum detector. Only a quantum detector needs to absorb a discrete amount of energy hν.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">Classical dielectric boundary does not suffer from this limitations!</i></b><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Sincerely,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Chandra.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:40 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Chandra,<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Does not the Lorentz contraction make the photon appear to be a zero-length object?<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Chip: Good luck in your approach to model electron.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">While my cerebral eyes are quite blind to the detailed “looks’ of electrons; I think I am seeing the photons a bit better, at least for now.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Photons are transient entities satisfying both the nineteenth century Quantum Mechanics (quantum transitions) and the seventeenth century wave mechanics proposed by Huygens (in contrast to Newton).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Yes, the wave-particle duality is that old (started during around the third quarter of 1600). However, Newton and Huygens understood that their “quarrel” on the “wave-particle duality” was due to both of their ignorance about the deeper nature of light. Unfortunately, the fathers of our QM formalism declared “wave-particle duality” as the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">new knowledge<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b>to hide our deeper ignorance. Bohr was “Hell Bent” to [prove that QM formalism was “Complete” and successfully defeated Einstein in the famous Bohr-Einstein debate! However, Einstein was an eternal enquirer like a true scientists, critiquing effectively all of his successful theories. Nature is not mischievous. She does not play “duality” or “non-causality” games with us. Those are just our over-confidence on the human invented mathematical logics; which are not god’s logics.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">However, maths are the best “slide calipers” for us to keep modeling nature iteratively with many different starting postulates. We must keep our enquiring minds alert constantly.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Chandra.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchandra.roychoudhuri" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri</a>=<a href="mailto:uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:16 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Wolf and Chandra<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">While my conjecture for the formation of elementary fermions and “photons” works quite well to explain the properties of electrons and the forces of nature, it still does not mean that a “photon” does not evolve into a propagating wavepacket after emission.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">My current belief is that the photon exists as a particle which exhibits wave-like properties due to its configuration and topology, and does not evolve into a different topology once emitted.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">But I agree with Chandra regarding the fact that a photon cannot be emitted unless there is a dipole field involved. The emission of radiation in accelerators is caused by the interaction of the accelerating field with the electron. A lone charged particle cannot emit a photon, there must be a dipole to create a photon, and there must be a dipole to absorb energy from a photon. So this limits the conditions under which emission and absorption can occur.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The reaction of an electron in a double slit experiment is not strictly due to the electron interfering with itself, but rather due to the interaction of the electron’s fields with the fields of the particles in the double slit mask. So the topology of the mask, and its dimensions, have a pronounced effect on the detected pattern.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If this is the case with electron double slit experiments, it is likely also the case with photon double slit experiments.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I finally have a pretty good understanding of how to model this, so I will start working on a double slit simulation in MATLAB. It will be interesting to see how well the predicted behavior from my model agrees with the observed behavior for electron and photon double slit experiments.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Once this is done correctly, if the predicted does not agree with the observed for the photons, then we have to consider the possibility that the photon is not what I think it is.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I have already done some checking on the electron model and double slit behavior, and that works out quite well so far.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Will keep you posted.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Chip<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wolfgang Baer<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:51 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Can a single indivisible photon interfere?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I've been on your side of this issue for a long time since I further believe the near field effects and resonant absorbers unknown when Qm was first postulated show the small point absorption of an atome for a spread out wave is a likely explanation for the photon postulate. However Chip is makeing some interesting arguments for a self confining Em propagation, how self confined photons then explain the double slit interference without the quantum baggage is then always a problem.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Of course your argument that more than one photon is necessary for interference in a Mach Zender setup is perfectly correct but experiments are always done with a beam so photons interfere with each other - I do not know if single photon MZ experiments have ever been done<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Your slide on Einstein - I wonder if quantum effects are in fact confined to the material of the instruments that are infact the Hilbert space?<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">wolf<o:p class=""></o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Research Director<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 9/25/2017 2:56 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Hello Everybody: Here is a potentially new “thread” for debate for our community.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">“Can a single indivisible photon interfere?”</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">My answer is a strong “No”.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">I just presented this paper at the OSA Annual meeting last week, held at Washington, DC. It was well accepted by many.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">It is only an 11-slide presentation. However, it experimentally demonstrates that, for Superposition Effect to emerge, we must have the simultaneous presence of two physical signals carrying two physically different phase information incident on the opposite sides of the beam-combiner of a two-beam Mach-Zehnder interferometer. The superposition effect emerges as purely a classical effect facilitated by the dielectric boundary of the beam combiner (classical light-matter interaction; no QM). The energies in the two superposed beams can have any value, no lower limit like “h-nu”. Thus, single photon interference is causally and physically an untenable logic, in my view point.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">The experiment also underscores that the postulate of the “Wave-particle duality”, is completely unnecessary for EM waves. In fact, the Copenhagen Interpretation becomes more logical and causal without this postulate. The QM formulation is essentially correct. We do not need to degrade it by imposing non-causal postulates.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">In the past, I have also proposed an experiment to validate that for “particle interference”, we also need pairs of out-of-phase particles to nullify the stimulation of the detector molecule to generate “dark fringes”.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;" class="">Chandra.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href=<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Click here to unsubscribe<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""></a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a><br class=""><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" style="color: purple; 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