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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dear John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Some objection here. Gravitation has always travelled with light speed, to my opinion. You are confused with another discussion that we once had about the Coulomb potential and the gravitational
potential of the sun which seem to be instantaneous. The reason is that they have been out there for a while, otherwise one wouldn’t find those to be “static”. There are different ways to look that problem. For the Coulomb potential, one could also invoke
virtual photons, which are longitudinal and off-shell, so may have arbitrary speed. Those are just pictures, hence have intrinsic perspective from which they are taken.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Just to make sure you get my point, gravitation and electromagnetism in vacuum both go with the speed of light and this can only be observed when there is some kind of disturbance. No disturbance
means statics and no knowledge (or even necessity of that knowledge) of propagation speed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">This I think, by the way, is in essence also a difference between the Coulomb gauge and Lorentz gauge in electromagnetism.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Cheers, Martin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> John Williamson [mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 10 oktober 2017 3:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Phil Butler <phil.butler@canterbury.ac.nz>; Niels Gresnigt <Niels.Gresnigt@xjtlu.edu.cn>; Mark, Martin van der <martin.van.der.mark@philips.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Stiffness of space<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Dear All,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">I think the recent discussions could do with a dose of the other side of the scientific method: facing any conjectures with experiment. Also there are a couple
of bits of theory I thought were also “common knowledge” which seem to be outside the recent discussion within the group and, on which, I would appreciate clarification by those more knowledgable in the field than I.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Firstly, the recent experimental detection of gravitational waves has something to say about the conjecture that gravitation may be “faster than light”.
If this were so, then one would expect to see the timings in Ligo be more similar to each other, would one not? At “infinite” velocity of the disturbance the signals would appear at the same time. They do not. The observed results are all consistent with the
gravitational wave disturbance travelling at lightspeed, as far as I am aware. If there were indeed two solar-mass objects in rotation about one another at near lightspeed I would expect to see longitudinal gravitation waves which Ligo should have been able
to pick up, would I not? I must admit to being a bit disappointed by this, as Martin and I have long conjectured that disturbances in the fabric of space-time may be pretty much “instantaneous”. Apparently not so.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Secondly on photons interfering with themselves. I am pretty sure, not only because of the exclusion principle but also because of having done the experiments
myself, that electrons interfere only with themselves. I do not see why the same should not be true of photons. Three things confuse, one experimental one “theoretical” and one just basically confusional.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Experimental: it is my understanding that many experiments have been done in interference where there is only one “photon” in the detector at a time. The
interference pattern builds up, photon by photon. This has now been done so often, and for so many years, that I thought this was beyond any reasonable doubt. True?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Theoretical: the path integral formalism of electromagnetism requires photon interference with itself to derive why photons travel in “straight” lines at
all. There is a simple exposition of this in the Feynmann lectures on physics. This is here a consequence of the photon interfering ONLY with itself, and with many different possible phases. Is this then wrong and if so, why? If it is wrong, and given that
the Maxwell equations by themselves would predict sources give out pretty much spherical waves, as is the case for sound, what is the alternative explanation for their traveling pretty much exclusively in straight lines from emitter to absorber?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Confusional. If a photon is somewhere emitted at lightspeed it is immediately and irrevocably outside the light-cone of every other photon in the universe.
It is a “gone”. The only other thing on its light-cone is its future absorber. How then, could this possibly interfere with anything but itself?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">Yours, confusedly,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times",serif;color:black">JGW.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [mules333@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 09, 2017 7:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">One thing which we may have overlooked is the possibility that longitudinal displacement of space is faster than light, just as longitudinal displacement of any medium is faster than transverse waves.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The only direct manifestations we have of longitudinal displacement of space are electric charge and gravity. If circulating transverse displacements create particles, then the fields are longitudinal displacements,
with their geometric origin at the particle center.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So it is my opinion that longitudinal displacement is much faster than light.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I also feel that what we sense as transverse waves, are actually caused by the mechanism which creates momentum in the spinning longitudinal displacements of particles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">While I agree that the phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge cannot be turned on or off instantaneously. It must be 'moved' from place to place…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I do not feel that it is caused by standing waves or anything else which travels at c. But I do feel that the center of the phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge of any particle cannot move faster
than c.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Meulenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 09, 2017 7:13 AM</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">Dear Chip and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Could you comment on my view of superluminal velocities?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge cannot be turned on or off instantaneously. It must be 'moved' from place to place. Their infinite-range consequences precede and follow along this motion.
This means that any 'changes' in the source of these effects are propagated thru a region that already has 'excess' energy 'embedded' (probably as a standing wave). Therefore, the disturbance can move thru the region as a phase change that can propagate at
greater than the speed of light. "New' energy transfer is still limited to c. The difference in phase vs group velocities could be the cause of 'inertia'.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
Andrew M.<br>
_ _ _ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:34 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Due to information from experiment, and calculations by Feynman, there is significant evidence that electric charge “propagates” much faster than light. (References available)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">When we carefully study binary stars, and compute their orbital changes, it becomes clear that gravity is also a faster than light phenomenon. (Take a look at this for yourself, I think you may be surprised.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">In any medium, longitudinal displacement propagates through the medium significantly faster than transverse waves propagate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So it is a reasonable avenue of inquiry to address the possibility, in fact probability, that longitudinal displacement propagates through space much faster than light.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">When we combine that premise with the premise that space is a two component tension medium, we can easily explain the cause of electric charge, gravity, the strong force, the quantization of charge, the mechanism
which creates momentum, the mechanism which creates mass, and the list goes on. (I have written, or am writing papers on each of these subjects due to the fruitfulness of this research.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I have not found any place in the literature which has explored this possibility (space as a two component tension medium, and longitudinal displacement faster than light). But many important things can be resolved
using such an approach. There is then no need to resort to extra dimensions, or magical explanations, to explain what we observe.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If this is the reality of nature, then Maxwell’s equations are a partial description of the behavior of the momentum created in this scenario, and we can recreate Maxwell’s equations by expressing part of the momentum
operators generated by this approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">BTW, this approach also explains magnetic fields, shows why more energetic particles are smaller particles, explains why light (photons) have a spin of 1 hbar and electrons have a spin of ½ hbar… etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So, after much work to find out if this could be the way it actually works in nature, I have found that the answers to most of the puzzles of physics emerge naturally from this scenario. Including pilot waves and
the appearance of entanglement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Therefore my current opinion is that this is much more causal than assuming that nothing travels faster than light. In fact, since we have never found a medium in which longitudinal displacement propagation is
as slow as transverse displacement propagation, it is starting to seem quite naive to me that we assumed that transverse “waves” were the only form of displacement, and naïve to assume that longitudinal displacement of space would be the same speed as transverse
“waves”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam K<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 08, 2017 10:51 AM</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Chip,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I did not gather that you want longitudinal waves to travel faster than light. I don't understand how that idea explains things causally. It seems to be the opposite of causality. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I agree that Maxwell's equations are incomplete (a "torso" as Einstein called them) and need to be derived from properties of a CTF. The way to do this, in my opinion, is to discover the structure of a single electron
within the CTF, and show how placing two of them side by side gives rise immediately to the electrostatic force. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I did not see any derivations of fundamental equations in your paper. Perhaps I missed them. Did you have an equation yourself, which describes the behavior of objects in the CTF? It would be good to see how Maxwell's
equations result from that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:37 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I agree that gravity is a refraction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Perhaps I have not written the paper in a manner which gets the ideas across well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I have not started with anything more than a tension medium of space, Planck’s action, the force of electric charge, the mass energy equivalence, and experimental data, to derive the model of space discussed in
the paper.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I did not start with GR, but GR is a result, I did not start with Schrodinger’s or Dirac’s equations, but they are results.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">My view and Chandra’s of space are quite similar, but that I feel that longitudinal displacement of space is much faster than light.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I also feel that Maxwell’s equations are a good mathematical expression for the momentum which is created by the mechanisms mentioned in the paper. But that Maxwell’s equations are not to be considered complete
because they do not address spin. But in addition to not being complete, I think Maxwell’s equations are just an expression of one of the artifacts (momentum) of the reaction of energy with space, and that the reactions are at a deeper level than these equations
by themselves can disclose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So I do not think that a stiffness of space which is derived from Maxwell’s equations alone will be accurate either. Just as I do not think that a stiffness derived from the speed of light will be accurate. One
concept that I wanted to get across in the paper is that the speed of light and Maxwell’s equations are a study of certain observables, but that evidence seems to suggest that these observables arise from a set of circumstances which is not just a transverse
wave in space. There is more than that going on. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If space is a tension medium and, if we accept that longitudinal displacement of space propagates much faster than light, it solves so many of the puzzles in a simple causal natural manner, that I feel we cannot
ignore this possibility.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam K<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 08, 2017 2:59 AM</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I think you would do well to follow Chandra's way of thinking here. There are a few reasons:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">1) It is much simpler. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">2) The vacuum fluctuations are not without their problems. They give rise to a prediction that is the worst in all of physics: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I was talking to Carver Mead about this issue and he pointed out that the vacuum catastrophe has come about through explanation of the Lamb shift, which is a tiny discrepancy in the energy levels of hydrogen. In
his opinion, we should be humble and admit we have not figured out the Lamb shift yet, rather than accept the current explanation, which gives rise to a prediction of the cosmological constant at least 10e40 times, ie 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000
times larger (and possibly even another 10e60 times greater!!) than what is observed. Maybe John M has an opinion about this. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">3) In my humble opinion, you are on the right track to think about gravity as the refraction of a wave. This is how I think about it, and I believe this is clearly correct. (I could not tell if this is how you
think about gravity, really, because in the paper you sent out you use different terms to explain it). Whatever theory you are looking for needs derive the Einstein equation (as well as the Maxwell equations and Schrodinger equation), not start from there.
General Relativity is so profound, and wonderful, it is because of it that you and I and Chandra et al. are searching for a solution to the question in terms of an underlying ether, fabric, CTF, what have you. However, GR only describes the reaction of that
fabric to mass and energy, it does not explain how mass and energy emerge. These quantities are expressed by the stress energy tensor T_{\mu\nu} in the right hand side of the Einstein equation, and Einstein called this tensor an 'asylum ignorantiae'. It seems
to me that you are looking to explain the origin of energy and mass, which is what you should be doing, so your explorations should be one level deeper than GR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Chip, Macken:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">I have a different approach to the stiffness of the space.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Just look at the Slide#12 in the attached document.</span></i></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">I conclude Ether as the Complex
<b><i>Tension</i></b> Field (CTF) based on the fact that this CTF allows the perpetual velocity “c” for light
<b><i>WAVES </i></b>through it<b><i>,</i></b> same everywhere. Therefore, from Maxwell’s equation “epsilon” and “mu” are the most important determinants of the space stiffness. These two constants have been measured repeatedly since the beginning of physics.
I have presented this approach in my 2014 book (“Causal Physics”) and many of my earlier papers. Fortunately, math is accessible to undergraduate students (Slide #12).</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">Chandra. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">PS: The attached document is a cut out version of my1-hr. seminar today to our graduate students. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchandra.roychoudhuri" target="_blank">general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri</a>=<a href="mailto:uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Macken<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 06, 2017 1:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>; 'Hodge John' <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C">Hi Chip,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C">I do have an answer for your question about the stiffness of space. I have been working on this for a long time and I believe that I have come up with some amazing results. Attached is my latest version of
a paper I have been writing on this subject. Here is the abstract from this paper.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Abstract:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Gravitational waves </span>
<span style="color:black">(GWs) have some characteristics of acoustic waves.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
</span><span style="color:black">For example, GWs </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">have amplitude, frequency, intensity, propagation speed and encounter</span><span style="color:black"> spacetime as having a</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">
quantifiable impedance. These </span><span style="color:black">characteristics </span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">permit</span><span style="color:black"> GWs to be analyzed to obtain the apparent “acoustic” properties of spacetime. The result is that GWs encounter spacetime as if it is
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">an extremely stiff elastic medium</span><span style="color:black"> with a large energy density. The energy density encountered by GWs scales with frequency squared and equals Planck energy density (</span><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">∿</span><span style="color:black">10<sup>113</sup>
J/m<sup>3</sup>) at Planck frequency. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">This matches the vacuum energy density predicted by quantum
</span><span style="color:black">field theory at this frequency. This finding </span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">makes a new contribution to one of the major mysteries of physics known as the cosmological constant problem.</span><span style="color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">An analysis of the </span><span style="color:black">GW</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> designated GW150914 is also given as a numerical example. A model of vacuum energy is proposed</span><span style="color:black">
to be Planck length vacuum fluctuations at Planck frequency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C">John M.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#20188C"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 06, 2017 8:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Hodge John' <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>>; 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi John H<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Not like inertia.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chandra and I both feel that space is comprised of a tension medium.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">But if that is the case then it seems that medium must be very “stiff”.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So that it would take a large force to displace space a small amount.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">But the stiffness would be due to the tensor strength of the medium.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Space would then be “frictionless” for all practical purposes. But would oppose displacement with a force.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hodge John<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 06, 2017 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="m_4234979436848218799m_5002722365740346670m_5270371199665489821m_2564407134627419788yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507301688974_3068">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">"Stiff" like inertia?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hodge</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On Friday, October 6, 2017 7:22 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hi John M</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Earlier, while reading your work, I noticed you discussed the stiffness of space.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I am looking for some insight into how to quantify just how “stiff” the medium of space is. Hoping to relate fundamental force to fundamental displacement.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Do you have any thoughts on how to address this issue?</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Chip</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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