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<!--StartFragment--><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wolf, Andrew and others,</p>
<h4 style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:
0in" class=""><span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">Photons have inertial mass due to
their internal momentum, even though they don’t have rest mass. Please see my
article “<a href="http://www.academia.edu/attachments/45929253/download_file?s=portfolio" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none" class="">A Photon Has
Inertial Mass hv/c^2 in Mirror Reflection and Compton Scattering</span></a>” at
<a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research" class=""><span style="color:
windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none" class="">https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research</span></a>.
Also see my article there “</span><span style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); font-weight: normal;" class=""><a href="http://www.academia.edu/attachments/51324948/download_file?s=portfolio" class=""><span style="color:#232323;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none" class="">Transluminal
Energy Quantum Model of a Spin-½ Charged Photon Composing an Electron</span></a></span>”.</h4>
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<h4 style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:
0in" class=""><span style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); font-weight: normal;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h4>
<!--EndFragment--></div><div class=""> The two spin-1/2 charged half-photons will be held in their double-helical orbits by the Coulomb attraction of the opposite-sign electric charges of the two charged half-photons. According to the new double-helix photon model composed of two helically moving spin-1/2 charged half-photons (each carrying 1/2 of the energy E=hf of the composite photon, which in the case of e-p pair production is E> 2 x 0.511MeV), the helical radius R of each spin-1/2 charged half-photon forming the double-helix composite photon is R = lambda/2pi . The distance between the two helically moving charges (the diameter of their double helix) will therefore be D = 2R = lambda/pi. This is equal to the diameter D=2R = lambda/pi of the single helix of my “old” superluminal energy quantum photon model composed of a single superluminal helically moving spin-1 uncharged energy quantum. Each of the two half-photons in the new photon model contains half of a photon’s longitudinal momentum p=h/lambda . “Lambda-half-photon” is the wavelength of each half-photon composing the composite photon. In the spin 1/2 charged half-photon model, lambda-half-photon = 2 lambda where lambda is the composite photon’s wavelength . But lambda-half-photon contains two helical turns of the half-photon’s helix. So one helical turn of a half-photon’s helix has the same axial length lambda as the wavelength of the composite photon. Since each half-photon carries half of the longitudinal momentum (or P-longitudinal = 1/2 h/lambda) and half of the transverse momentum (or P-transverse= 1/2 h/lambda) of the single-helix spin-1 photon model, the total calculated longitudinal spin component of the 2 half-photon composite photon model is 2 x P-transverse x R = 2 x 1/2 h/lambda x lambda/2pi = h/2pi = hbar, the same spin as for a photon.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Setting F-Coulomb = F-centripetal = dP-transverse /dt = w P-transverse for the double helix orbit of diameter D= lambda/pi , the calculation of the magnitude Q of the two charges on the spin-1/2 half-photons that would hold them in their double helical trajectories came out Q = e sqrt(2/alpha) = 16.6 e (Please try it yourself, this result requires double-checking.) This would mean that electric charges of e and -e would not provide sufficient Coulomb attraction to hold the spin-1/2 charged half-photons in their double-helical motion to form a composite photon. But since a photon is neutral there is no requirement that the two charges of the composite photon need to be e and -e. It may be that during e-p production from a photon, the charges of +13.6 e and - 13.6 e holding the composite photon together in its double-helical motion are reduced from +13.6 e and -13.6 e to +e and -e , and so the stability of the composite photon cannot be maintained and the two charged-photons fly apart to form an electron and positron pair with charges -e and +e.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> This composite photon model is oversimplified, because a single photon can create other pairs of particles at higher photon energies. A better composite photon model would take this additional capacity of a photon into account.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> with warm regards,</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 9, 2017, at 11:12 PM, Wolfgang Baer <<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" class="">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Sounds like you have some historic klaut to back your idea. <br class="">
</p><p class="">You probably answered this but what force holds them in their
orbits. Without inertia of mass pulling out why are such
configurations of charges</p><p class="">stable.</p><p class="">Wolf<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/9/2017 9:59 PM, Richard Gauthier
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D703EBDB-D8CC-4D7D-B683-51A6DA4BAC5B@gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
Hello Andrew and all,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> De Broglie proposed his 2 spin-1/2 particle
photon idea (not sure if he also had a model for this) in the
early 30’s in his book "La Physique Nouvelle et les Quanta”
(available free at <a href="http://archive.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">archive.org</a>) and in English
translation as "<a class="a-link-normal" href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007G309U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: none; color:
rgb(0, 102, 192); font-family: 'Amazon Ember', Arial,
sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" moz-do-not-send="true">The
revolution in physics: A non-mathematical survey of quanta</a>”,
available at <a href="http://amazon.com/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Amazon.com</a>. With the help of
Google Translate (slightly edited) I give below what de
Broglle wrote on this (p. 277-278 in the French edition):</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
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<!--StartFragment-->
<pre class=""><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";
color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">From these general remarks, we have concluded that, in order to constitute a theory of the photon, we must first use a relativistic form of wave mechanic</span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";
color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">s
comprising elements of symmetry due to polarization and, secondly,
introduce something to differentiate the photon from the other
particles. The first part of this program is realized immediately
by using the theory of the electron of Dirac that we studied
previously. We know that Dirac's theory is relativistic and that
it contains elements of symmetry with a marked kinship with those
of the polarization of light. Nevertheless, it was not sufficient
to suppose that the photon is a particle of negligible mass
obeying the equations of the Dirac theory, for the model of the
photon thus obtained would have, so to speak, only half the
symmetry of the real photon; moreover, it would, like the
electron, apparently obey Fermi statistics and could not be
annihilated in the photoelectric effect. We need something more.</span>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D703EBDB-D8CC-4D7D-B683-51A6DA4BAC5B@gmail.com" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<pre class=""><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;
mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">This something more, we tried to introduce on the assumption that the photon is constituted not of a Dirac particle, but of two.</span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121" class="" lang="EN"> </span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:
EN" class="" lang="EN">It can be realized that these two particles </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D703EBDB-D8CC-4D7D-B683-51A6DA4BAC5B@gmail.com" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<pre class=""><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:
EN" class="" lang="EN">or half-photons must be complementary to each other in the same sense as the positive electron is complementary to the negative electron in Dirac</span><span style="font-family:"ＭＳ 明朝";mso-ascii-font-family:inherit;mso-fareast-font-family:
"ＭＳ 明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:inherit;
color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="">’</span><span style="font-family:
"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">s hole theory.</span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121" class="" lang="EN"> </span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">Such a pair of complementary particles is
liable to annihilate itself by contact with matter and yielding
all its energy, and this perfectly accounts for the chracteristics
of the photoelectric effect.</span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121" class="" lang="EN"> </span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">Moreover, the photon then being constituted by
two elementary particles with spin h/4pi must obey Bose-Einstein
statistics, as required by the accuracy of Planck's law for
black-body radiation.</span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121" class="" lang="EN"> </span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">Finally, this photon model makes it possible to
define an electromagnetic field linked to the probability of
annihilation of the photon, a field which obeys Maxwell</span><span style="font-family:"ＭＳ
明朝";mso-ascii-font-family:inherit;mso-fareast-font-family:
"ＭＳ
明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:inherit;color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="">’</span><span style="font-family:
"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">s equations and possesses all the
characteristics of the electromagnetic light wave. Although it is
still premature to pronounce definitively on the value of this
attempt, it is indisputable that it leads to interesting results
and that it heavily draws attention to the properties of symmetry
of complementary particles whose existence, suggested by the Dirac
theory, was verified by the discovery of the positive electron.</span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#212121" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D703EBDB-D8CC-4D7D-B683-51A6DA4BAC5B@gmail.com" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<pre class=""><span style="font-family:
"inherit","serif";color:#212121;mso-ansi-language:EN" class="" lang="EN">
</span></pre>
<!--EndFragment--></div>
<div class="">So what I have called in the past a spin-1/2
charged photon I now think should be called a spin-1/2 charged
half-photon, since two of them (one positive and one negative)
would move in a double helix to form a spin 1 photon which
helps generate electromagnetic waves. This renaming should
also solve the semantic problem of the name of this
superluminal charged spin-1/2 particle , which I would no
longer consider to be a variety of photon, since it would take
two of them to make a photon. Such a photon model could easily
generate an electron-positron pair when near an atomic nucleus
that absorbs excess momentum (creating two rest masses) and
splits a sufficiently energetic photon into an e-p pair.
Comments? </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 2, 2017, at 5:20 AM, Andrew
Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mules333@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Dear Folks,<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
The composite electron model has a history of which I
was not aware. From mid-right column of page 4 of
(free access):<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/</a><b class="">the-last-challenge-of-modern-physics</b>-2090-0902-1000217.php?aid=87682<br class="">
<br class="">
<div style="margin-left:40px" class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Louis de Broglie
elaborated a most promising hypothesis to help</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">explain these
special characteristics of the photon [7].
Having analyzed</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">them in light of
the verifed aspects of the various pertaining
theories,</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">he eventually
concluded that the only way for an
electromagnetic</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">photon to satisfy
at the same time Bose-Einstein's statistic and
Planck's</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">law, and to
perfectly explain the photoelectric effect
while obeying</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Maxwell's
equations and conforming to the symmetry
property of</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">complementary
corpuscles in Dirac's Hole Theory, would be
for it to</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">be made not of
one corpuscle, but of two corpuscles, or
half-photons,</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">that would be
complementary, like the electron is
complementary to</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">the positron in
Dirac's Hole Theory [15].<br class="">
<br class="">
</span><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">This
conclusion mandates the association of charges
(possibly<br class="">
unsigned) to each half-photon, and
consequently to the photon itself, ...</span>
<br style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="margin-left:40px" class="">
<div style="margin-left:40px" class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">7. Michaud A
(2016) On De Broglie’s Double-particle
Photon Hypothesis. J Phys</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Math 7: 153.</span>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">15. De Broglie
L (1937) New physics and quanta, Flammarion,
2</span><span class="gmail-fontstyle0" style="font-size:4pt">nd </span><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">1993 new</span><br class="">
<span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Preface.<br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This would imply that, historically,
the Nature of Light is even more curious than most
of us thought.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Andrew M.<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> <br style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:24
PM, Richard Gauthier <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Hello Martin (and all),</p><p class="MsoNormal"> Thank you for this
summary of your CC-CM approach to a
moving particle such as an electron. My
approach to modeling an electron is
quite similar to yours, except that in my
approach the CC (center of charge) is
the position of a light-speed spin-1/2
charged quantum particle that I call a
choton. It is in circular motion in a
resting electron and moves helically in a
moving electron. The linear momentum of the
choton in a resting electron is
Po=mc=2.73x10^-22 kg m/s = 0.511 MeV/c (and
its energy is mc^2= 0.511
MeV) and this momentum mc circles with
radius Ro= L-compton/4pi = hbar/2mc =
1.93x10^-13m at the zitterbewegung frequency
f-zitt=2mc^2/h. The choton’s
average position as the choton circles
around is what you call the CM (center
of mass). In a resting electron the choton
(at the position CC) and the CM
are separated by the distance Ro, with the
choton circling around its CM at the
zitter frequency. Due to its circular motion
with its changing momentum
direction, the choton appears to be acted on
by a centripetal force Fc=dp/dt =
w Po = w-zitt Po = 0.424 N , where w-zitt
(omega-zitt) = 2 mc^2/hbar
= 1.55 x 10^21 rad/sec. The choton’s
centripetal acceleration A-cent in this
circular motion in a resting electron is
A-cent = r w^2 = Ro (w-zitt)^2 =
4.66x10^29 m/s^2. My article “Derivation of
the inertial mass m=Eo/c^2 of an electron
composed of a circling spin-1/2 charge
photon” at <a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research%23papers" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://<wbr class="">richardgauthier.academia.edu/<wbr class="">research#papers</a> (4<sup class="">th</sup> article) also shows that
the above circling choton (spin-1/2 charged
photon) has an inertial mass m = Eo/c^2 =
0.511MeV/c^2 derived from its circling
momentum mc=Eo/c.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> When no external force
(besides the apparent 0.424 N
central force) acts on the choton, the
moving electron model moves
longitudinally with velocity <b class="">v</b>
and with
momentum <b class="">p</b>=gamma m<b class="">v</b>. The choton circulates with
its
longitudinal momentum component P-long =
gamma mv, which is the electron’s linear
momentum, and with a transverse momentum
component P-trans = Po = mc. Using the
Pythagorean equation, this gives the
choton’s total momentum directed along its
helical trajectory as P-total^2 = P-long^2 +
P-trans^2 = (gamma mv)^2 + (mc)^2 = (gamma
mc)^2, or P-total = gamma mc. The choton’s
corresponding total energy is E-total =
P-total c = gamma mc^2, which is the
same as a relativistic electron’s total
energy. </p>
<h4 style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in" class=""><span style="font-weight:normal" class="">
When an external electric field </span>E<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">
acts on the circulating choton, the choton
(with its inertial mass m=0.511
MeV/c^2) is accelerated by a net force </span>Fnet<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">
equal to the rapidly rotating centripetal
force </span>Fc<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">=
0.424 N plus the external force </span>F<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">=-e</span>E.
<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">The
total force on the choton is </span>Fnet<span style="font-weight:normal" class=""> = </span>Fc<span style="font-weight:normal" class=""> +
e</span>E <span style="font-weight:normal" class="">= m </span>a-total
<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">in
the non-relativistic case or </span>Fnet<span style="font-weight:normal" class=""> =
d</span>p-total<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">/dt in
the relativistic case. The choton’s
helical
motion (the motion of the CC) will be
changed by the external electric field </span>E
<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">acting
on the choton, and the choton’s CM
(average
position) will be affected accordingly,
and move in the direction of the applied
external force </span>E<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">.</span></h4>
<h4 style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in" class=""><span style="font-weight:normal" class="">
There are also quantum mechanical features
of the above motion. As the
choton changes its helical trajectory due
to the applied electric field </span>E<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">, the
choton’s transverse momentum component
P-trans
= mc adjusts its orientation so that
P-trans continues to be transverse to the
choton’s new longitudinal motion with its
new longitudinal component velocity </span>v’
<span style="font-weight:normal" class="">(the
new electron velocity). In this way the
calculated spin of the choton electron
model continues to be Ro x Po = hbar/2
and the Pythogorean momentum relation
continues to be P-total^2 = P-long^2 +
P-trans^2 (which is mathematically
equivalent to the relativistic
energy-momentum equation E^2 = p^2 c^2
+m^2 c4).
Further information on the spin-1/2
charged photon model is at “Electron’s are
spin 1/2 charged photons generating the de
Broglie wavelength” at <a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://richardgauthier.<wbr class="">academia.edu/research#papers</a>
(19<sup class="">th</sup> article).</span></h4>
<h4 style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in" class=""><span style="font-weight:normal" class="">
In summary, the choton electron model does
not need to be a rigid body
to maintain the relation between CC and
CM. All forces (including the apparent
centripetal force F-cent) act on the
choton (at the CC), which has its own
inertial mass, producing the choton’s
acceleration and average center of mass
position CM. </span><span style="font-size:15.0pt;color:#232323;font-weight:normal" class=""></span></h4>
<div class=""><span style="font-weight:normal" class="">with warm regards,</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="font-weight:normal" class=""> Richard</span></div>
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 25, 2017, at 2:18 AM,
Martin Rivas <<a href="mailto:martin.rivas@ehu.es" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">martin.rivas@ehu.es</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="m_-1158051194164779336WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Dear Wolfgang
and Richard,</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Thank you for
your interest. I will try an answer
to your hints and questions.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">In my opinion
there is no need to find a mechanism
for binding together the center of
mass and center of charge</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">of the
electron.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">For any
arbitrary mechanical system, once
the total external force F is
determined, we use this total</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">force to
compute the trajectory of the CM by
considering that this point (CM) is
a point particle of mass</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">m, the total
mass of the system, and solve the
corresponding differential equations
dp/dt=F. The linear momentum p</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">is expressed
in terms of the CM velocity v, as
usual p=mv in a non-relativistic
framework, or p=gamma(v)mv<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">in a
relativistic one.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">This is known
as the center of mass theorem.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">In the case of
an elementary particle the
hypothesis is that the interacting
property, the charge,</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">either
electric, weak or strong charge, can
be associated to a single point, the
center of charge.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">An elementary
particle is such a simple system
that its interacting structure can
be reduced to a single</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">point (the CC)
and no further multipoles.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">To know the
position of this point is important
to determine from there the fields
produced by the elementary</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">particle and
also, by assumption, the force
produced by the external fields on
the particle, which is</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">just the
evaluation of the external fields at
the particle center of charge.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">In the
Preamble of my Notes I consider as
an example the possibility that an
elementary particle can be<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">considered as
a rigid body. All electromagnetic
structure can be reduced to a single
point, the CC.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">But this point
is by assumption a different point
than the CM. What we get is that
once the trajectory<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">of the CC is
determined,</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">the trajectory
of the CM can also be computed as an
average trajectory of the other. And
we have not to worry</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">about how
these two points are bound together.
We can also compute the trajectory
of the CM as usual,</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">as a Newtonian
equation, but the total external
force is not defined at the CM but
rather at the CC.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">The CC
satisfies fourth order differential
equations which have helical
solutions, so that the center<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">of the helix
corresponds to the CM trajectory.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">In this way
there is no need in this formalism
to consider that an elementary
particle</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">to be a
helically-moving charged photon-like
object. It can be reduced to a
single point, the CC.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">But three
degrees of freedom are not
sufficient to describe spin 1/2
objects.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Later I need
some extra three degrees of freedom
to describe orientation, so that an
elementary</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">particle
becomes a localized and orientable
mechanical system. The particle
moves and rotates.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">From the
quantum mechanical point of view we
need the orientation variables to
have spin operators</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">with 1/2
spectrum. The analysis in the
preamble shows that if the two
centers are different points, then</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">the CC has to
be moving at an unreachable velocity
for every inertial observer. This is
the speed of light but we have</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">no photons
moving around. Just the motion of
the CC.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">At this stage
of the formalism what we have are
electromagnetic forces. Gravity is
absent by assumption</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">because we are
in a Restricted Relativity Principle
framework. The electromagnetic
forces are computed in terms</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">of the motions
of the CC's of the particles that
interact.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Bohr atom.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">The usual
conception that the electron, in the
ground state, describes an orbit,<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">either
circular or elliptic trajectory
around the CM of the proton is
misleading.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">The reason is
that in the ground state of the
atom, the orbital angular momentum
of the electron is L=0. It is a
S-state.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Literally it
means from the classical point of
view that the linear momentum of the
electron,<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">and therefore
the trajectory of the CM of<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">the electron,
has to be pointing always to the CM
of the proton. It has to be a back
and forth trajectory</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">around the CM
of the proton, a straight
trajectory. This is impossible for a
spinless point particle because</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">the two
particles will collide at the common
CM. But if the electron has two
separate points,<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">there is no
problem that the motion of the CM of
the electron go through the CM of
the proton, while the CC<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">of both
particles will never meet each
other. For the electron the
separation between CM and CC is
10^{-13} m,</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">while the
estimated size of the proton is
smaller, around 10^{-15} m, 100
times smaller.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">The CC of the
electron will never collide with the
charge of the proton.</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Best regards</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US">Martin</span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0cm 0cm" class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class="">De:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class=""><span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span>Richard
Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</a><wbr class="">]<span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Enviado el:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span>lunes, 25 de
septiembre de 2017 4:50<br class="">
<b class="">Para:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">CC:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span>Martin
Rivas; David Hestenes<br class="">
<b class="">Asunto:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] A composite electron?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">Hello
Martin,</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> I
would like to know if you have
ever considered your
helically-moving-lightspeed-<wbr class="">charge electron model
(which is similar to David
Hestene's
helically-moving-lightspeed-<wbr class="">charge zitter
electron model) to be a
helically-moving charged
photon-like object (which I call
a “choton” — rhymes with
“photon" -- for “charged
photon”). A helically-moving
lightspeed charged photon-like
object would have its inertial
mass centered on its helical
axis (as in your electron model)
and so It seems that it would be
quite similar in many ways to
your electron model, including
having the electron's spin 1/2
due to its helical radius of
hbar/2mc. Furthermore, a
helically-circling charged
photon-like object would have
the ability to generate the
electron’s relativistic de
Broglie wavelength L-db=
h/(gamma mv) due to its wave
motion (and wavelength lambda =
h/(gamma mc) for a relativistic
electron of energy E=gamma mc^2
= hf= hc/lambda) along its
helical trajectory.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">
Thanks,</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">
Richard</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">On
Sep 24, 2017, at 12:20 PM,
Martin Rivas <<a href="mailto:martin.rivas@ehu.es" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">martin.rivas@ehu.es</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Tank you
Richard,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Best regards</span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Martin</span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0cm 0cm" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class="">De:</span></b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class="">Richard
Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</a><wbr class="">]<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Enviado
el:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>domingo,
24 de septiembre
de 2017 8:45<br class="">
<b class="">Para:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>Martin Rivas<br class="">
<b class="">CC:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and
Particles -
General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Asunto:</b><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>Fwd:
[General] A
composite
electron?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" class="">Hello
Martin, </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">You must have
been accidentally left
off of the reply
list. So I am
forwarding Wolf’s
latest reply which is
directed partly to
you. You can send any
reply back to <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">general@lists.<wbr class="">natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a> <wbr class="">. You are
also welcome to join
the discussion group
if you like.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> with
warm regards,</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">
Richard</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class="">Begin
forwarded message:</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">From:<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Wolfgang Baer <<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">wolf@nascentinc.com</span></a>></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Subject:
Re: [General]
A composite
electron?</span></b></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Date:<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">September 23, 2017 at
11:14:31 PM PDT</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">To:<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">general@lists.<wbr class="">natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Reply-To:<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Nature of Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">general@lists.<wbr class="">natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">I
looked at
Martin's<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299636714_Kinematical_Theory_of_Elementary_Spinning_Particles_Lecture_Notes" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">https://www.researchgate.net/<wbr class="">publication/299636714_<wbr class="">Kinematical_Theory_of_<wbr class="">Elementary_Spinning_Particles_<wbr class="">Lecture_Notes</span></a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">and was<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Quite
interested in
several problems
he discussed.
First the
question of how
to address
charge
separation from
mass when
charge cancels
to a neutral.
I’ve had the
same thoughts
that somehow one
must treat the
centers of
positive and
negative charge
separately and
then put them
together. I do
not know if he
is listening but
one idea I have
been mulling
through is that
the sign of
charge is
somehow
associated with
the observers
time , so that
plus and minus
charge is
associated with
before and after
the observers
now. Just a wiff
of something
going through my
head.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">The
other however is
the force
relationship
between the
Lorenz force on
one side and the
Newtonian force
on the mass<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">He then
equates the two
but that leaves
a separate pull
on a charge and
one on a mass.
So I’ve
postulated a
force holding
the two together
and approximated
the force
between charge
and mass as Fcm
and its opposite
Fmc as two
additional
forces that must
happen inside
material and
have been trying
to connect them
to the weak and
strong force,
but without
success. Mainly
because I do not
know that much
about elementary
particles.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> But it
is clear to me
that we have two
parallel systems
of force
categories when
looking at
material from
the outside. One
is
Electromagnetic
governed by
Maxwell and the
Lorenz force on
charges the
other is
Gravito-inertial
forces governed
by Einstein<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">We just
assume charge
and mass must be
held together or
these two force
types would
operate
completely
independently
and we would
have nothing of
the kind of
material we
actually
experience.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> I’ve
modeled such
internal force
simply by a
spring with a
spring constant
that is infinity
when we assume
charge and mass
are co located,
but then as the
spring constant
become finite
all kinds of
interesting
effects can
happen. One I’ve
asked Albrecht
to look at is to
see if we
consider the
Bohr atom and
assume that the
central force
between proton
and electron
pulls the mass
and charges
apart slightly.
The coulomb
force would be a
bit greater
since the
inertial
balancing force
would pull the
mass outward.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> <span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>Would such a
system account
for the fine
structure? And
would we get
Sommerfelds fine
structure
constant out of
it. I do not
have the
background to do
such a
calculation but
wish I could
find someone who
could do it or
have a reference
to someone who
has done it.If
you get any
leads on thios
kind of thing
let me know</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Perhaps
Martin if you
are listening
could shed light
on this problem
with his
Kinem,atic
Theory of
elementary
particles?</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">best
for now</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Wolf</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
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0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Dr. Wolfgang Baer</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Research Director</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Nascent Systems Inc.</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">wolf@NascentInc.com</span></a></pre>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">On
9/22/2017 9:36
PM, Andrew
Meulenberg
wrote:</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Dear
Wolf,</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">This
whole concept
is new to me
(only weeks
old), so i
can't
recommend
anything yet.
I'm just
trying to find
the time to
scan/read what
looks
promising.
However, it
may be
something to
draw a number
of models
together
(given a
little
'wiggle-room').
.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
One of the
questions to
be addressed
is certainly
on what holds
the centers
together. So,
your thoughts
could be very
important. My
first instinct
is to look at
the whirlpool
effect as
exemplified by
the Falaco
effect (see
various papers<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span><cite class="">like</cite><span style="font-size:10pt" class=""><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0101098" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><cite class=""><span style="color:purple" class=""> </span></cite><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"><i class=""><span style="color:purple" class=""> </span></i></span><span style="color:purple" class="">Falaco solitons, cosmic strings in a
swimming pool</span></a>
RM Kiehn -
arXiv preprint
gr-qc/0101098,
2001 -<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://arxiv.org/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">arxiv.org</span></a></span><cite class="">).</cite><span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span>I am slow
with the
mathematics;
nevertheless,
I find the
concept to be
useful and now
I can apply it
to the
polarizability
of, and forces
between, two
centers. My
preference at
the moment is
to assume
relativity and
3-space +
time.</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Richard
has shown that
his charged
photon concept
has wiggle
room and
therefore it
is probably
compatible
with my
present
concepts
(which also
have wiggle
room). Both of
our models may
be compatible
with a
2-center
model.<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
I fear that
Albrecht's
twin particle
model may not
be given the
wiggle room to
incorporate
the two-center
model. If so,
that is too
bad, because
both models
might benefit
from the
comparison.</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Since
my twins were
born, I have
not had time
to keep up
with most of
the
discussions of
this forum.
(This lack of
time is the
result of a
different
2-center
model. Just
this evening,
I had two pair
of glasses,
which I had
left on my
laptop, nearly
destroyed.) So
pointing out
important
threads might
be necessary
to bring me
up-to-speed on
some of the
things
presented as
they pertain
to the present
discussion.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Andrew
M.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">_________________</p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">On
Fri, Sep 22,
2017 at 9:20
PM, Wolfgang
Baer <<a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">wolf@nascentinc.com</span></a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Andrew:</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">I've
been working
on the concept
of charge and
mass center
differences
and forces
thaT MAY HOLD
THEM TOGETHER<span class="m_-1158051194164779336apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">You
mention quite
a few papers
which one or
which set
would you
recommend to
find out more
about what has
been proposed?</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">And
yes I have
suggested this
to Albrecht
but he has not
felt it was
what he has in
mind, his idea
is that the
two rotating
chrges are
purely a
elecromagnetic
strong or weak
force, I
cannot
remember which</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">Wolf</div>
</div>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Dr. Wolfgang Baer</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Research Director</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">Nascent Systems Inc.</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432</pre>
<pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'" class="">E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">wolf@NascentInc.com</span></a></pre>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:0cm
0cm
0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times
New
Roman',serif" class="">On
9/20/2017 2:45
PM, Andrew
Meulenberg
wrote:</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Dear
Richard and
Albrecht,</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Richard
has expressed
doubts about
Albrecht's
2-body
electron and
Albrecht
probably has
reservations
about
Richard's
charged
photons.<br class="">
<br class="">
I just read a
paper ("The
dynamical
equation of
the spinning
electron," J.
Phys. A, 36,
4703, (2003),
and also LANL
ArXiv:physis/0112005, along.with some background papers) that Richard
has referenced
in his: The
Dirac Equation
and the
Superluminal
Electron Model
(<a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple" class="">https://richardgauthier.<wbr class="">academia.edu/research#papers</span></a>).
I found a
concept with
which I was
previously
unfamiliar:
the centers of
mass and
charge being
different. If
this
interesting
concept is
valid; then it
might be
possible that
the two
centers are
the 'objects'
that Albrecht
has proposed
for his
composite
electron. It
might also
apply to the
charged
photon.</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New
Roman',serif">Has
anyone any
comments on
this concept
(or n the
author of the
paper: Martin
Rivas)?</p>
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