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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Hello John W. and All,</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br />I have some experimental evidence indicating that photons can interfere with other photons. From about 1969 to 1971 I worked of CO2 laser radar systems. We would routinely interfere two laser beams generated by different lasers and observe the beat frequency. These two beams were combined using a semi-transparent mirror similar to the mirror used in an interferometer. The beat frequency could be as large as 40 MHz or as small as a few tens of Hz. Since the photons in each beam were coming from different lasers, they must have been interference between different photons. I have several other examples that prove this point, but these additional examples probably are not necessary.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br />On another subject, I live in Santa Rosa, California and my house was one of the thousands of houses in the path of the tremendous wild fires to strike Northern California. Of the 49 houses closest to me, 39 were destroyed and 10 survived. My house was one of the 10 that survived. It was surrounded by landscaping about 10 meters wide that served as a fire break.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br />John M.</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">-----Original Message-----<br />From: "John Williamson" <John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk><br />Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 9:27pm<br />To: "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br />Cc: "Phil Butler" <phil.butler@canterbury.ac.nz>, "Niels Gresnigt" <Niels.Gresnigt@xjtlu.edu.cn>, "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark@philips.com><br />Subject: Re: [General] Stiffness of space<br /><br /></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Dear All,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">I think the recent discussions could do with a dose of the other side of the scientific method: facing any conjectures with experiment. Also there are a couple of bits of theory I thought were also “common knowledge” which seem to be outside the recent discussion within the group and, on which, I would appreciate clarification by those more knowledgable in the field than I.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Firstly, the recent experimental detection of gravitational waves has something to say about the conjecture that gravitation may be “faster than light”.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If this were so, then one would expect to see the timings in Ligo be more similar to each other, would one not? At “infinite” velocity of the disturbance the signals would appear at the same time. They do not. The observed results are all consistent with the gravitational wave disturbance travelling at lightspeed, as far as I am aware. If there were indeed two solar-mass objects in rotation about one another at near lightspeed I would expect to see longitudinal gravitation waves which Ligo should have been able to pick up, would I not? I must admit to being a bit disappointed by this, as Martin and I have long conjectured that disturbances in the fabric of space-time may be pretty much “instantaneous”. Apparently not so.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Secondly on photons interfering with themselves. I am pretty sure, not only because of the exclusion principle but also because of having done the experiments myself, that electrons interfere only with themselves. I do not see why the same should not be true of photons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Three things confuse, one experimental one “theoretical” and one just basically confusional.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Experimental: it is my understanding that many experiments have been done in interference where there is only one “photon” in the detector at a time. The interference pattern builds up, photon by photon. This has now been done so often, and for so many years, that I thought this was beyond any reasonable doubt. True?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Theoretical: the path integral formalism of electromagnetism requires photon interference with itself to derive why photons travel in “straight” lines at all. There is a simple exposition of this in the Feynmann lectures on physics. This is here a consequence of the photon interfering ONLY with itself, and with many different possible phases. Is this then wrong and if so, why? If it is wrong, and given that the Maxwell equations by themselves would predict sources give out pretty much spherical waves, as is the case for sound, what is the alternative explanation for their traveling pretty much exclusively in straight lines from emitter to absorber?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Confusional. If a photon is somewhere emitted at lightspeed it is immediately and irrevocably outside the light-cone of every other photon in the universe. It is a “gone”. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The only other thing on its light-cone is its future absorber. How then, could this possibly interfere with anything but itself?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">Yours, confusedly,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: Times; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB;">JGW.</span></p>
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<div id="divRpF827088" style="direction: ltr;"><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"><strong>From:</strong> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [mules333@gmail.com]<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, October 09, 2017 7:36 PM<br /><strong>To:</strong> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space<br /></span></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Chip Akins <span dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br />
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Hi Andrew</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">One thing which we may have overlooked is the possibility that longitudinal displacement of space is faster than light, just as longitudinal displacement of any medium is faster than transverse waves.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">The only direct manifestations we have of longitudinal displacement of space are electric charge and gravity. If circulating transverse displacements create particles, then the fields are longitudinal displacements, with their geometric origin at the particle center.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">So it is my opinion that longitudinal displacement is much faster than light.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I also feel that what we sense as transverse waves, are actually caused by the mechanism which creates momentum in the spinning longitudinal displacements of particles.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">While I agree that the phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge cannot be turned on or off instantaneously. It must be 'moved' from place to place…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I do not feel that it is caused by standing waves or anything else which travels at c. But I do feel that the center of the phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge of any particle cannot move faster than c.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Chip</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Andrew Meulenberg<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, October 09, 2017 7:13 AM</span></p>
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<div class="h5"><br /><strong>To:</strong> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">Dear Chip and all,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Could you comment on my view of superluminal velocities?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">The phenomenon that leads to gravity, mass, and charge cannot be turned on or off instantaneously. It must be 'moved' from place to place. Their infinite-range consequences precede and follow along this motion. This means that any 'changes' in the source of these effects are propagated thru a region that already has 'excess' energy 'embedded' (probably as a standing wave). Therefore, the disturbance can move thru the region as a phase change that can propagate at greater than the speed of light. "New' energy transfer is still limited to c. The difference in phase vs group velocities could be the cause of 'inertia'.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /> Andrew M.<br /> _ _ _</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:34 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Hi Adam</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Due to information from experiment, and calculations by Feynman, there is significant evidence that electric charge “propagates” much faster than light. (References available)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">When we carefully study binary stars, and compute their orbital changes, it becomes clear that gravity is also a faster than light phenomenon. (Take a look at this for yourself, I think you may be surprised.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">In any medium, longitudinal displacement propagates through the medium significantly faster than transverse waves propagate.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">So it is a reasonable avenue of inquiry to address the possibility, in fact probability, that longitudinal displacement propagates through space much faster than light. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">When we combine that premise with the premise that space is a two component tension medium, we can easily explain the cause of electric charge, gravity, the strong force, the quantization of charge, the mechanism which creates momentum, the mechanism which creates mass, and the list goes on. (I have written, or am writing papers on each of these subjects due to the fruitfulness of this research.)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I have not found any place in the literature which has explored this possibility (space as a two component tension medium, and longitudinal displacement faster than light). But many important things can be resolved using such an approach. There is then no need to resort to extra dimensions, or magical explanations, to explain what we observe. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">If this is the reality of nature, then Maxwell’s equations are a partial description of the behavior of the momentum created in this scenario, and we can recreate Maxwell’s equations by expressing part of the momentum operators generated by this approach.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">BTW, this approach also explains magnetic fields, shows why more energetic particles are smaller particles, explains why light (photons) have a spin of 1 hbar and electrons have a spin of ½ hbar… etc.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">So, after much work to find out if this could be the way it actually works in nature, I have found that the answers to most of the puzzles of physics emerge naturally from this scenario. Including pilot waves and the appearance of entanglement.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Therefore my current opinion is that this is much more causal than assuming that nothing travels faster than light. In fact, since we have never found a medium in which longitudinal displacement propagation is as slow as transverse displacement propagation, it is starting to seem quite naive to me that we assumed that transverse “waves” were the only form of displacement, and naïve to assume that longitudinal displacement of space would be the same speed as transverse “waves”.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Chip</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Adam K<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, October 08, 2017 10:51 AM</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /><strong>To:</strong> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Hi Chip,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I did not gather that you want longitudinal waves to travel faster than light. I don't understand how that idea explains things causally. It seems to be the opposite of causality. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I agree that Maxwell's equations are incomplete (a "torso" as Einstein called them) and need to be derived from properties of a CTF. The way to do this, in my opinion, is to discover the structure of a single electron within the CTF, and show how placing two of them side by side gives rise immediately to the electrostatic force. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I did not see any derivations of fundamental equations in your paper. Perhaps I missed them. Did you have an equation yourself, which describes the behavior of objects in the CTF? It would be good to see how Maxwell's equations result from that. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /> Adam</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:37 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Hi Adam</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Thank you.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I agree that gravity is a refraction.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Perhaps I have not written the paper in a manner which gets the ideas across well.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I have not started with anything more than a tension medium of space, Planck’s action, the force of electric charge, the mass energy equivalence, and experimental data, to derive the model of space discussed in the paper.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I did not start with GR, but GR is a result, I did not start with Schrodinger’s or Dirac’s equations, but they are results.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">My view and Chandra’s of space are quite similar, but that I feel that longitudinal displacement of space is much faster than light.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">I also feel that Maxwell’s equations are a good mathematical expression for the momentum which is created by the mechanisms mentioned in the paper. But that Maxwell’s equations are not to be considered complete because they do not address spin. But in addition to not being complete, I think Maxwell’s equations are just an expression of one of the artifacts (momentum) of the reaction of energy with space, and that the reactions are at a deeper level than these equations by themselves can disclose.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">So I do not think that a stiffness of space which is derived from Maxwell’s equations alone will be accurate either. Just as I do not think that a stiffness derived from the speed of light will be accurate. One concept that I wanted to get across in the paper is that the speed of light and Maxwell’s equations are a study of certain observables, but that evidence seems to suggest that these observables arise from a set of circumstances which is not just a transverse wave in space. There is more than that going on. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">If space is a tension medium and, if we accept that longitudinal displacement of space propagates much faster than light, it solves so many of the puzzles in a simple causal natural manner, that I feel we cannot ignore this possibility.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Chip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Adam K<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, October 08, 2017 2:59 AM</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /><strong>To:</strong> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Chip,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I think you would do well to follow Chandra's way of thinking here. There are a few reasons:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">1) It is much simpler. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">2) The vacuum fluctuations are not without their problems. They give rise to a prediction that is the worst in all of physics: </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I was talking to Carver Mead about this issue and he pointed out that the vacuum catastrophe has come about through explanation of the Lamb shift, which is a tiny discrepancy in the energy levels of hydrogen. In his opinion, we should be humble and admit we have not figured out the Lamb shift yet, rather than accept the current explanation, which gives rise to a prediction of the cosmological constant at least 10e40 times, ie 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times larger (and possibly even another 10e60 times greater!!) than what is observed. Maybe John M has an opinion about this. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">3) In my humble opinion, you are on the right track to think about gravity as the refraction of a wave. This is how I think about it, and I believe this is clearly correct. (I could not tell if this is how you think about gravity, really, because in the paper you sent out you use different terms to explain it). Whatever theory you are looking for needs derive the Einstein equation (as well as the Maxwell equations and Schrodinger equation), not start from there. General Relativity is so profound, and wonderful, it is because of it that you and I and Chandra et al. are searching for a solution to the question in terms of an underlying ether, fabric, CTF, what have you. However, GR only describes the reaction of that fabric to mass and energy, it does not explain how mass and energy emerge. These quantities are expressed by the stress energy tensor T_{\mu\nu} in the right hand side of the Einstein equation, and Einstein called this tensor an 'asylum ignorantiae'. It seems to me that you are looking to explain the origin of energy and mass, which is what you should be doing, so your explorations should be one level deeper than GR.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Adam</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">Chip, Macken:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">I have a different approach to the stiffness of the space. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><em><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">Just look at the Slide#12 in the attached document.</span></em></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">I conclude Ether as the Complex <strong><em>Tension</em></strong> Field (CTF) based on the fact that this CTF allows the perpetual velocity “c” for light <strong><em>WAVES </em></strong>through it<strong><em>,</em></strong> same everywhere. Therefore, from Maxwell’s equation “epsilon” and “mu” are the most important determinants of the space stiffness. These two constants have been measured repeatedly since the beginning of physics. I have presented this approach in my 2014 book (“Causal Physics”) and many of my earlier papers. Fortunately, math is accessible to undergraduate students (Slide #12).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">Chandra. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt;">PS: The attached document is a cut out version of my1-hr. seminar today to our graduate students. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchandra.roychoudhuri" target="_blank">general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri</a>=<a href="mailto:uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>John Macken<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 06, 2017 1:30 PM<br /><strong>To:</strong> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>; 'Hodge John' <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #20188c;">Hi Chip,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #20188c;">I do have an answer for your question about the stiffness of space. I have been working on this for a long time and I believe that I have come up with some amazing results. Attached is my latest version of a paper I have been writing on this subject. Here is the abstract from this paper.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;text-align: justify;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Abstract: </span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Gravitational waves </span>(GWs) have some characteristics of acoustic waves. For example, GWs <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">have amplitude, frequency, intensity, propagation speed and encounter</span> spacetime as having a<span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> quantifiable impedance. These </span>characteristics <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">permit</span> GWs to be analyzed to obtain the apparent “acoustic” properties of spacetime. The result is that GWs encounter spacetime as if it is <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">an extremely stiff elastic medium</span> with a large energy density. The energy density encountered by GWs scales with frequency squared and equals Planck energy density (<span style="font-family: 'Cambria Math',serif;">∿</span>10<sup>113</sup> J/m<sup>3</sup>) at Planck frequency. <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">This matches the vacuum energy density predicted by quantum </span>field theory at this frequency. This finding <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> makes a new contribution to one of the major mysteries of physics known as the cosmological constant problem.</span> <span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">An analysis of the </span>GW<span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> designated GW150914 is also given as a numerical example. A model of vacuum energy is proposed</span> to be Planck length vacuum fluctuations at Planck frequency.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #20188c;">John M.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Chip Akins<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 06, 2017 8:16 AM<br /><strong>To:</strong> 'Hodge John' <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank">jchodge@frontier.com</a>>; 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Hi John H</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Not like inertia.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Chandra and I both feel that space is comprised of a tension medium.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">But if that is the case then it seems that medium must be very “stiff”. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">So that it would take a large force to displace space a small amount.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">But the stiffness would be due to the tensor strength of the medium. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Space would then be “frictionless” for all practical purposes. But would oppose displacement with a force.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;">Chip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: times new roman; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;"> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Hodge John<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, October 06, 2017 9:57 AM<br /><strong>To:</strong> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [General] Stiffness of space</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">"Stiff" like inertia?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: black;">On Friday, October 6, 2017 7:22 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">Hi John M</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">Earlier, while reading your work, I noticed you discussed the stiffness of space.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">I am looking for some insight into how to quantify just how “stiff” the medium of space is. Hoping to relate fundamental force to fundamental displacement.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">Do you have any thoughts on how to address this issue?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;">Chip</span></p>
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