<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Hi Chip, Grahame and All,</div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">I have tried to suggest that explanations should be based upon physical principles supported by mathematics. To that end my last correspondence gave a physical description of different types of photons in terms of their electric and magnetic fields. Their mathematical form of the wave function Psi was also presented. Both depended upon the physical properties of free space, the electric permittivity and magnetic permeability. To the best of my knowledge no other representation of a photon has been presented to this group. Many keep mentioning photons without describing what they mean. The side benefit of that is participants can attribute any property they do or do not desire to a photon. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Chip, what is meant by "<i>half a photon</i>"? How can “<i>half a photon</i>” exist without the other half? Regarding your comment "<i>The whole photon does not possess the properties it takes to be confined to become and electron</i>” John W (and Martin v d M may) suggest that it is possible, John W has also used some mathematics sin support of that proposal.. When a full circularly polarized photon makes two revolutions per wavelength the electric polarities and magnetic fields reinforce each other. This does not occur with any other combination of rotations per wavelength. That model explains many known electron properties and makes many predictions that can be tested experimentally. IMHO that gives a way that full photons can give rise to particles in general and electrons in particular. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;">Grahame, I agree that a "<font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3"><i>a linear photon could not by itself form an electron</i></font><font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif">”</font><font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3">. It requires an interaction with matter. Without going into great detail, it is not unrealistic to expect that, at such interaction or collision the photon could “crumple” or bend and split. Half the photon would be confined to a negative charge, an electron, and the other half to a positive charge, a positron. Without a definition of a half photon, I am not sure how that idea differs from particle/anti-particle formation from a single energetic photon “splitting” into two confined “half photons”. As mentioned above, a circularly polarized electromagnetic wave making two revolutions within its wavelength will reinforce its electric and magnetic properties in a way that no other combination of rotations per wavelength can.</font></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;"><font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3"><br></font></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="margin: 0px;">It would help your case if you were to give a description of half a photon and how "<span style="color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> </span><i style="color: navy; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">two half-photons (of requisite energy) can form an electron</i><font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif">”<font size="3">. Without those sorts of </font></font><font color="#000080" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3">explanations, everything is subjective opinion. </font></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Cheers </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">Vivian R</div> <br> <div id="bloop_sign_1508188418014103808" class="bloop_sign"></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">On 16 October 2017 at 5:55:28 AM, Chip Akins (<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div></div><div><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi Grahame<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Yes. Perhaps semantics is getting in the way regarding a photon within an electron.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">It seems that the correct half of what makes a photon would possess a single polarity of electric charge. That is a portion of my objection to using the term photon for this form of energy. A photon does not possess a single polarity of charge. But a photon does not have the capacity to be fully confined in three dimensions and exhibit ½ hbar spin either.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So to me, so much has to be different from the properties of a photon, that calling this propagating energy within the electron a photon is not really an accurate or clear description. But if one want to imagine that a photon can have charge, and a photon can be fully confined (not travel in a straight line at c), and can possess ½ hbar spin, then they could still call this thing a photon. Just doesn’t seem correct to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 16, 2017 6:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Interference of Photons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Hi Chip & all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Having written of an electron as being a cyclic-photon construct, I have to agree with Chip that there are compelling reasons why a linear photon could not by itself form an electron. My concept of a 'cyclic photon' is that of an electromagnetic waveform like a linear photon, but constrained by its own electromagnetic field interactions to travel in a cyclic path rather than linearly. In my parlance this doesn't make it 'not a photon' - it depends on whether one's definition of a photon is necessarily something that travels in a straight line or whether one regards it simply as a packet of electromagnetic energy in the form of a self-propagating time-varying electromagnetic field effect: the latter is my understanding of the term.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">So whilst I don't totally agree with Chip's view that there isn't a photon circulating in (or rather AS) an electron, this is due to our differing views on what constitutes a photon - it appears that we're agreed on what constitutes an electron. I'm also fully in agreement with Chip (and all experimental evidence that I know of) that two half-photons (of requisite energy) can form an electron.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" title="chipakins@gmail.com">Chip Akins</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Monday, October 16, 2017 12:20 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Re: [General] Interference of Photons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi John M and Vivian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">First, <b>Vivian</b>. I am and exception apparently, for I do not believe there is a photon circulating inside an electron. To me the evidence indicates that a whole photon cannot become an electron. The whole photon does not possess the properties it takes to be confined to become and electron. Two half photons could become an electron.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">John M</span></b><span style="color:black">. One thing I wanted to mention is related to your comment…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">“My model obtains the exact force between two particles at any separation if they had Planck charge rather than charge <i>e.</i>”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This is because the model of space as a two component tension medium suggested, obtains the exact force between two particles at any separation, and this is precisely the force of the elementary charge.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So I will take a look at the gravitational force between two electrons using this model and get back to you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________
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