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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi Chandra<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I am compiling a list of considerations, which each indicate that space is a tension medium.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>It would be helpful and much appreciated if you could list the reasons you feel this is the case. There seem to be many clues, and some quite compelling reasons, to view space in this manner. But I suspect you have discovered some reasons for this view that I have not yet unearthed. I thought it might be good to compile a more complete list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 16, 2017 12:18 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Interference of Photons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Standard definition of photon: "<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222'>a particle representing a quantum of light or other electromagnetic radiation. A photon carries energy proportional to the radiation frequency but has zero rest mass."</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222'>Since a electron has a rest mass m, it cannot be composed of a photon, which has zero rest mass. But it can be composed of a half-photon having a circling momentum mc=Eo/c, which would have, starting from Newton’s 2nd law F=dP/dt= wP = m A-centripetal, a rest mass m=Eo/c^2 .</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222'> Richard.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 16, 2017, at 7:12 AM, Dr Grahame Blackwell <<a href="mailto:grahame@starweave.com">grahame@starweave.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Chip an' All,</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>A few 'assumptions' in your response below, Chip, that I would regard as verging on dogma rather than science.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>It's my understanding that a photon is a packet (quantum) of time-varying waveform electromagnetic energy. Period. By that definition there's absolutely nothing stopping such a quantum 'chasing its own tail' (or more properly, self-interfering so as to hold a circular path, once so constrained); there's nothing stopping such a localised manifestation of such energy exhibiting the quality of 'charge' as an artefact of its electric and magnetic fields (note that 'charge' is simply an effect, it's not any more defined than that - and that effect MUST travel with the TEM wave, including conforming with interference effects (since interference is de facto for electrons), so it MUST (IMO) be an artefact OF that wave); if we say that a photon does not EXHIBIT charge effects, rather than 'POSSESSING charge' (whatever that may mean), I'd say no, in its rectilinear form it doesn't - but we're discussing a different topology of the same EM quantum; likewise a rectilinear EM quantum doesn't exhibit 1/2 hbar spin - but consider a rock travelling in a straight line then that same rock being whirled around in a circle on the end of a rope...</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>As for "a photon does not have the capacity to be fully confined in three dimensions" - how do you know that??? This is a statement of belief, not of science. [Eddington famously said of Chandrasekhar's findings: "I cannot believe that a star would behave in such a manner" - and so held back advances on our understanding of black holes for decades.]</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Ok, semantics - but don't let's allow semantics to limit our open-mindedness with regard to truly scientific possibilities.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Best regards,</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Grahame</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>----- Original Message -----<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" title="chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>Chip Akins</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='color:purple'>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Monday, October 16, 2017 12:54 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Re: [General] Interference of Photons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Hi Grahame<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Yes. Perhaps semantics is getting in the way regarding a photon within an electron.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>It seems that the correct half of what makes a photon would possess a single polarity of electric charge. That is a portion of my objection to using the term photon for this form of energy. A photon does not possess a single polarity of charge. But a photon does not have the capacity to be fully confined in three dimensions and exhibit ½ hbar spin either.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>So to me, so much has to be different from the properties of a photon, that calling this propagating energy within the electron a photon is not really an accurate or clear description. But if one want to imagine that a photon can have charge, and a photon can be fully confined (not travel in a straight line at c), and can possess ½ hbar spin, then they could still call this thing a photon. Just doesn’t seem correct to me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, October 16, 2017 6:37 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='color:purple'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Interference of Photons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Hi Chip & all,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Having written of an electron as being a cyclic-photon construct, I have to agree with Chip that there are compelling reasons why a linear photon could not by itself form an electron. My concept of a 'cyclic photon' is that of an electromagnetic waveform like a linear photon, but constrained by its own electromagnetic field interactions to travel in a cyclic path rather than linearly. In my parlance this doesn't make it 'not a photon' - it depends on whether one's definition of a photon is necessarily something that travels in a straight line or whether one regards it simply as a packet of electromagnetic energy in the form of a self-propagating time-varying electromagnetic field effect: the latter is my understanding of the term.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>So whilst I don't totally agree with Chip's view that there isn't a photon circulating in (or rather AS) an electron, this is due to our differing views on what constitutes a photon - it appears that we're agreed on what constitutes an electron. I'm also fully in agreement with Chip (and all experimental evidence that I know of) that two half-photons (of requisite energy) can form an electron.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Grahame</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid navy 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>----- Original Message -----<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" title="chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>Chip Akins</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='color:purple'>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Monday, October 16, 2017 12:20 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Re: [General] Interference of Photons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Hi John M and Vivian<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>First,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>Vivian</b>. I am and exception apparently, for I do not believe there is a photon circulating inside an electron. To me the evidence indicates that a whole photon cannot become an electron. The whole photon does not possess the properties it takes to be confined to become and electron. Two half photons could become an electron.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b>John M</b>. One thing I wanted to mention is related to your comment…<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>“My model obtains the exact force between two particles at any separation if they had Planck charge rather than charge<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>e.</i>”<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>This is because the model of space as a two component tension medium suggested, obtains the exact force between two particles at any separation, and this is precisely the force of the elementary charge.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>So I will take a look at the gravitational force between two electrons using this model and get back to you.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:grahame@starweave.com"><span style='color:purple'>grahame@starweave.com</span></a><br><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/grahame%40starweave.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/grahame%40starweave.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a>"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>_______________________________________________</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><span style='background:white'>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></span><a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple;background:white'>richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><span style='background:white'><a href="</span></span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple;background:white'>http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>"></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><span style='background:white'>Click here to unsubscribe</span><br><span style='background:white'></a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>