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<!--StartFragment--><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Hi John W, Martin, Andrew, Chip, Grahame, Vivian and all,</span></p><div class=""> Here are some further exchanges about the spin-1/2 charge half-photon hypothesis that may interest you. </div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Hi André,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">I found a more extended discussion by de
Broglie of his half-photon idea in the English translation "Matter and
Light", published in 1939, available free at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://archive.org/details/matterandlightth000924mbp" title="https://archive.org/details/matterandlightth000924mbp" style="box-sizing: border-box;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(66, 139, 202); text-decoration: none;" class="">https://archive.org/details/matterandlightth000924mbp</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">on
pages 136-142. The French edition of this book was published as "Matiere et
Lumiere" in 1937. In this longer discussion he raises the possibility that
the two half-photons might be the then-newly-proposed neutrinos. He thought
that one neutrino alone would not carry electromagnetism, but two together
could.</span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#EFF3F6" class="">I'm also looking at "Composite
Photon Theory Versus Elementary Photon Theory" by W. A. Perkins 2015 at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.00661.pdf" title="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.00661.pdf" style="box-sizing: border-box;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(66, 139, 202); text-decoration: none;" class="">https://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.00661.pdf</span></a></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">. He
gives two additional de Broglie half-photon references -- references 1 and 2.
He also considers the two-neutrino composite approach in more detail.</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Hi Richard,</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Yes, I am familiar with de Broglie's
idea of the two half-photons possibly being neutrinos. At the time, there was
still speculation that neutrinos might be neutral charges, hence his connection
with the concept of neutrinos.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Hi André, <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">I'm not sure what you (or de Broglie?) means
by "neutral charge". Does it mean uncharged? A neutrino is uncharged
in standard physics:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""></span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#EFF3F6" class="">"Neutrinos are similar to the more
familiar electron, with one crucial difference: neutrinos do not carry electric
charge."<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html" title="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html" style="box-sizing: border-box;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(66, 139, 202); text-decoration: none;" class="">http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html</span></a><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(239, 243, 246); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">.</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#EFF3F6" class="">Does your tri-space approach include
some kind of force that holds the two half-photons together to form a photon?</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Hi Richard,</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Yes, as mentioned in my de Broglie
double particle hypothesis paper ( </span></span><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/on-de-broglies-doubleparticle-photon-hypothesis-2090-0902-1000153.php?aid=70373" class="" style="font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/on-de-broglies-doubleparticle-photon-hypothesis-2090-0902-1000153.php?aid=70373</a><span style="color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> , </span><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">on page 3, Section "Internal Coulomb
interaction between the Half-photons").</span><span class="apple-converted-space" style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Note that in the 3-spaces model,
neutrinos turn out to be simple kinetic energy without charges. See my paper
titled ¨The Mechanics of Neutrinos Creation in the 3-Spaces Model¨ (</span></span><font color="#4b4b4b" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class=""><a href="http://www.ijerd.com/paper/vol7-issue7/A07070108.pdf" class="">http://www.ijerd.com/paper/vol7-issue7/A07070108.pdf</a> </span></font><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-size: 10.5pt;" class=""> ).</span><span class="apple-converted-space" style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">From my perspective, what
"charges" are, signed or not, still remains to be understood. What is
obvious to me though is that a pair of them has to be present in the photon,
and that they are de facto subject to the "Coulomb interaction",
which also still remains to be correctly understood.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">I purposefully use the term
"interaction" instead of the traditional term "force" when
referring here to the Coulomb force, because I have reason to believe that
there is some yet to be correctly focused aspects to the definition of the
so-called "Coulomb force".</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Here is what I specifically think on
this issue. Note that what follows is taken out of context of my most recent
paper, still in the peer-review stage for an astrophysics journal (I don't know
exactly when I will have follow up), and it may be mostly meaningless taken out
of context like this, but here it is:</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Considerations on the possible origin of
the momentum related translational kinetic energy that propels elementary
charged particles such as electrons lead to observe that at the submicroscopic
level, kinetic energy is induced in these particles exclusively as a function
of the distance separating them. It is also well verified that the only known
force able to induce kinetic energy in free moving charges is the well known
Coulomb force.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Although established more than 200 years
ago by C.A. Coulomb, the exhaustively confirmed Coulomb law which is in action
between charged particles as a function of the inverse square of the distance
separating them seems to have progressively become invisible in the background
of the quantum electrodynamics method (QED), even if the Coulomb equation is an
integral part of Maxwell's first equation, that is, Gauss' equation for the
electric field, from which it can easily be derived.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">I find that the Coulomb force is a
critically important component of every "virtual photon" in QED, but
metaphorically cut into so many little pieces that it now attracts little
attention. Metaphorically speaking, QED causes us to pay attention to every
individual pixel in a metaphorical 4K screen that would represent the
submicroscopic level, but if we mentally pull back sufficiently, its
infinitesimally progressive action can be observed again.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">From observations made at our
macroscopic level, the traditional concept of "force" was
historically established by Newton as a mutual action between two massive
bodies, in the sense that "when a body exerts a force on a second body,
the second body always exerts a force on the first". Newton established
this conclusion as his third law of motion, stating that the mutual actions of
two massive bodies on each other are always equal.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Considering each of these bodies
separately, the force is then defined as being the interaction that changes the
momentum of a body as a function of the time that this interaction is applied
to it. This led to defining force as the product of the mass of a body by its
acceleration, that is, its changing velocity (F=ma); and to define its momentum
at any given instant as the product of its mass by its instantaneous velocity
(p=mv).</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">This observed "apparent
attraction" as a function of the inverse square of the distance between
massive bodies that are not in contact with each other, then resulted in force
being directly related to a natural increase in translational momentum of the
body, without any immediate need to refer to the simultaneousness of the
increase of its translational kinetic energy as a function of the diminishing
distance between the bodies involved, which is obtained by multiplying the
force by the distance between the bodies at any given moment, since
acceleration is represented by the squared momentary velocity divided by the
corresponding instantaneous distance (a=v2/r), which results in the total
amount of energy momentarily induced in the body at this specific distance to
be (E=mv2), a total amount of induced kinetic energy that Leibnitz considered
the real effect of application of a force, quantity which incidentally is twice
the amount associated with the translational momentum (p), which on its part is
traditionally calculated by replacing (v) by (p/m) in the classical kinetic
energy equation (K=mv2/2), giving (K= p2/2m).</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">From the relativistic perspective, the
reason for the difference between these two energy measuring methods is that
(E=γmov2) also includes the induced energy that converts to the velocity
related momentary relativistic mass increment that was transversally measured
by Walter Kaufmann when he deflected relativistically moving electrons in a
bubble chamber at the turn of the 20th century, and that was established by
Paul Marmet as corresponding to the relativistic magnetic mass increment, while
(K=γmov2/2) provides only the correct amount of momentum related translational
kinetic energy that sustains the velocity of the total relativistic mass, that
is, an amount of unidirectional kinetic energy that turns out by structure to
correspond to exactly half of the total amount of kinetic energy that must be
induced in the electron in excess of its invariant rest mass energy for it to move
at the corresponding relativistic velocity.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">It must be put in perspective that these
definitions, quite useful at our macroscopic level when applied to massive
macroscopic bodies, were established before it was discovered that the force in
action between charged elementary particles actually induces kinetic energy in
these particles due to the fact that they are electrically charged, so in the
absence of this information discovered later, the same definitions of force and
momentum were applied by default to the Coulomb force as applicable to these
elementary massive subcomponents of atoms, without taking into account that
besides their mass, they also possess an electrical charge, which is precisely
the characteristic related to energy induction in electromagnetism.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">The Coulomb force was thus defined in
the following manner:</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">"The force of attraction or
repulsion between two point charges is directly proportional to the product of
the charges and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between
them.".<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">But deep analysis of the Coulomb force
in light of the internal electromagnetic energy structure of the carrying
energy amounts induced in charged particles such as electrons and positrons
revealed in the trispatial geometry, and of the variation of these amounts as
distances vary between charged particles, reveals that the force itself does
not directly attract nor repel in the manner that it is currently defined to
operate, but that it only adiabatically induces kinetic energy in electrically
charged elementary particles, and that it is the unidirectional momentum
related component of this adiabatic kinetic energy that vectorially orients
itself to cause charged particles to translationally tend to move towards each
other in case of opposite signs charges, or away from each other in case of
same sign charges, when the particles are not captive in the various stable
electromagnetic resonance equilibrium states allowed in atomic structures,
states into which this translational motion is hindered even if the momentum
related kinetic energy still remains adiabatically induced, as analyzed in my
paper on adiabatic processes.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">This brings to light that the Coulomb
force would not really be a "force of attraction or repulsion" as
traditionally defined, but would rather be a "force of adiabatic kinetic
energy induction" that would adiabatically and continuously induce kinetic
energy in elementary charged particles, whether they are moving or not, and
whether their charges are signed or not (which is where it can be seen as also
be in action within the double-particle photon structure), which would make
this force a "yet-to-be-correctly-understood-active-agent" that would
be universally ambient in the background, so to speak, and consequently that it
would not need to travel at any velocity to simultaneously act on all existing
charged particles in the universe, but would only increase or decrease the
amounts of this adiabatically induced kinetic energy in an infinitesimally
progressive manner whenever charged particles happen to be in distance varying
motion with respect to each other.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Moreover, Marmet's discovery and the
observation confirmed by the Kaufmann experiment that half of any carrying
energy quantum induced in electrons converts to mass, reveal that not only does
the Coulomb force induce the momentum related translational energy of
elementary charged particles, it also induces actual mass, made up of the
electromagnetically oscillating other half of the induced carrying energy,
which gives the EM-oscillating half of any photon quantum the property of
omnidirectional inertia (electromagnetic mass).<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">From this perspective, and given that
this carrying kinetic energy needs to be induced in charged particles
"before" any related motion can becomes possible, this means that no
motion of the charged particles is required for the Coulomb force to
adiabatically induce kinetic energy in them as a function of the distance, and
that this energy remains induced even if the related velocity is prevented from
being expressed when the particles are captive in stationary orbital resonance
states, which are states of induced momentum kinetic energy that the classical
concept of momentum, thus also of the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian, clearly
do not account for since its related translational velocity is then forcibly
reduced to zero, or averages out to zero for electrons captive in such axial
resonance states.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Also, the currently accepted conception
is that the Coulomb force would be in action in the hydrogen atom between the
electron and the "proton". This conclusion disregards the fact that
the proton is not an elementary charged particle, but a system of elementary
charged particles, just like the solar system not a single body, but a system
of smaller massive astronomical bodies.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Regrettably, 50 years after that this
major discovery was experimentally confirmed at the Stanford linear accelerator
in 1968, it seems that few introductory textbooks to particle physics clearly
mentions this discovery with proper reference, but instead continue referring
to protons and neutrons as being elementary particles, which induces a high
level of confusion in the community in this regard.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Obviously, the solar system is a system
whose internal structure is defined by planets stabilized on orbits about a
central star, and just as obviously since the 1960's, the proton is known to be
a system whose internal structure is defined by interacting elementary
particles that are charged, massive, scatterable and point-like behaving just
like the electron, that were named up quark and down quark, that are
electromagnetically stabilized into least action equilibrium resonance states.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">So since the Coulomb force can act only
between electrically charged particles, it obviously can be interacting only
between the charged electron and the charged up and down quarks that are
captive inside the proton structure. So these 3 particles are the only stable
interacting charged and massive elementary particles that can be identified as
the physical building blocks of all atoms in the universe, instead of the three
that are still often erroneously referred to as being the three fundamental
elementary particles set defining the inner structure of atoms: electron,
proton and neutron.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Consequently, from the electromagnetic
perspective, the hydrogen atom is not an interacting two-massive-body system as
it still is currently considered, but rather a
four-charged-electromagnetic-particle system stabilized in least action
electromagnetic resonance states.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">This would also be true between the two
half photons inside an electromagnetic photon.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">So, in light of these considerations, a
tentatively more precise definition of the Coulomb force could be formulated in
the following manner, for example:</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">"The Coulomb force adiabatically
and continuously induces kinetic energy in elementary charged particles as a
function of the inverse square of the distance separating them, thus inducing
in each charged particle an accompanying energy quantum whose unidirectional
half is vectorially oriented so that charged particles tend to close in on each
other if they have opposite signs charges, and move away from each other if
they have identical sign charges, when not captive in the various resonance
states allowed in atoms, and to apply pressure in these vectorial directions
when their motion is inhibited by local electromagnetic equilibrium
states.".</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">In the trispatial geometry, both neutral
internal charges of electromagnetic photons would logically acquire opposite
signs on the Y-y/Y-z plane, but would both appear neutral along the
perpendicularly oriented Y-x axis along which they do not travel, the latter
neutral state being what we observe from the normal X-space perspective in the
case of the photon.</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Hope this makes some kind of sense to
you. Summarily put, we still do not completely understand the fundamental
level, where "charges" exist and where the Coulomb interaction rules.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Best Regards,</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">André</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<!--EndFragment--></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 23, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello John W., Martin and all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here’s another comment from Andr<span class="" style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class="">é.</font></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""> Richard</font></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);"><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">I read with interest the email you forwarded of Viv's answer to Grahame.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">You mention the fact that John Williamson is strong on the use of Clifford algebras and algebras in general. I suspect that he may possibly find interest in having a look a the trispatial geometry from the Clifford algebra perspective, since it is fundamentally a strictly orthogonal (3x3)+1 entirely orthogonal local space geometry.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">The second part of this paper, also peer-reviewed, puts in perspective this trispatial geometry with respect to other attempts at multidimensionality to explain the remaining issues in fundamental physics:</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-last-challenge-of-modern-physics-2090-0902-1000217.pdf" title="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-last-challenge-of-modern-physics-2090-0902-1000217.pdf" target="_blank" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(66, 139, 202); text-decoration: none; font-size: 14px;" class="">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-last-challenge-of-modern-physics-2090-0902-1000217.pdf</a><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">I understand the concept of Clifford algebras, but I am at the absolute layman level in this regard, and would really be looking forward to any feedback from a practitioner as to the possible usefulness of what, if any, useful perspective application of Clifford algebra to the trispatial geometry could bring.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">I must say that I fully agree with Viv to the need for any development at the fundamental level to be supported by consistent mathematics, that I personally see as requiring the solid foundation of the set of equations on electromagnetism that was developed from experimental data by Ampere, Gauss, Faraday, Maxwell, Biot and Savart, that all are interconnected and thus are converging in a manner that can only confirm their conformity with physical reality.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">Best Regards</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">André</span></font></span></div><div class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 19, 2017, at 9:17 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hello John W, Viviian, Chip, Grahame and all,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I invited Andr<span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class="">é Michaud to contribute his thoughts on the two particle photon hypothesis and related topics such as e-p pair creation from a photon. With his permission I’m appending part of our exchange. I’ve invited him to join our group and hope he will accept. He has a highly developed approach to de Broglie's two half-photons hypothesis for a photon, which he calls his trispatial geometry model. Please copy to </font></span>Andr<span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class="">é any replies to his comments or to this thread on a composite photon. </font></span>Andr<span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class="">é's</font></span><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""> peer-reviewed and published article “On De Broglie’s Double-particle Photon Hypothesis"</font></span><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""> is free to download at </font></span><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/on-de-broglies-doubleparticle-photon-hypothesis-2090-0902-1000153.php?aid=70373" class="">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/on-de-broglies-doubleparticle-photon-hypothesis-2090-0902-1000153.php?aid=70373</a> . </font><span style="color: rgb(75, 75, 75); font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class="">Thanks.</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""> Richard</font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></span></div><div class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class="">Our exchange follows:</span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Andr<span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class="">é: </font></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">I just read your last email to the group.
Note that during the McDonald et al. 1997 experiment that converted photons
energy to electron positron pairs, there was no massive particle involved to
absorb or communicate any momentum. It thus appears that the mere proximal
presence of two photons beams, one of which was made of photons exceeding the
1.022 MeV threshold seemed sufficient to trigger destabilization, of what I
assume would have been the 1.022 MeV or more photons.</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br class="">
<!--[endif]--><span style="background:#F8F8F8" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">Also, the presumption that momentum is
communicated during grazing of 1.022 MeV photons by massive particles stems
from the logic of QED. It must be taken in consideration that QED, which is in
harmony at the general level with Maxwell's equations, is unable, just like
electromagnetism in its current state, to account for the self-sustaining
mutual induction of electric and magnetic fields for localized elementary
particles such as electrons and photons.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">I put this in perspective because during
a conversation with an old experimentalist about 15 years ago, he spoke of experiments
confirming that no momentum was transferred between the decoupling single
photon and a massive particles, because they could verify that the exact
complement of incoming photons of 1.022 MeV or more corresponded to the exact
sum of the energy making up the rest masses of both particles plus their
momentum energy.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">At the time, I did not ask for formal
references to these experiments, thinking that this was generally known.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">It may thus be that the notion that
momentum is exchanged simply stems from theory.</span></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75); background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class="">You (Richard) write: "It sounds like the
experiment your experimentalist friend told you about also didn't directly
measure the recoil of the nucleus, but relied on the principles (laws) of
conservation of energy and momentum, applied to the incoming photon compared to
the outgoing e-p pair."</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">You are exactly right. And that's what
convinced me. Given that they could verify that the sum of the outgoing
energies accounted for the total energy of the incoming photon, then the issue
of recoil or not of the destabilizing massive particle seemed a moot point. All
the more so since that there were no massive particle to absorb any momentum in
the case of the McDonald et al. experiment in 1997, where one photon exceeding
the 1.022 MeV threshold could be destabilized by simply grazing closely another
photon of much lesser energy.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">What I find important here is that the
total energy complement of the incoming photon is completely accounted for.</span><br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
<span style="background:#F8F8F8" class="">Note in this regard, that all my
conclusions are refocused by the fact that this seamlessly fits in with all
other conversions processes possible in the rest of the 3-spaces model. This
includes the conviction that a single 1.022 MeV or more photon can decouple
into a pair, because this is natural and mechanically possible in the trispatial
geometry, but I have no idea how two separate photons could interact in such a
way that they would convert to a pair of electron-positron. It doesn't seem to
be mechanically possible in the trispatial geometry.</span></span><!--EndFragment-->
</div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><span style="background:#F8F8F8" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(75, 75, 75);" class=""><span style="background:#F8F8F8" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class=""><font color="#4b4b4b" face="Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248);" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 17, 2017, at 12:08 PM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Hi Chip and Grahame,<br class=""><br class="">Yes, it does take two photons. In fact though they must have the same spin (or helicity. As they are travelling in opposite directions, this then cancels in the spin zero creation of an electron positron pair.<br class=""><br class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">YT you Grahame for introducing a dose of reality into the argument and asking for references. You are, as far as I know, correct in what you say below.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">If there were two parts to the photon then one would see that as structure in the scattering at energies commensurate with the photon energy. This is not observed. This lack of observation of structure extends even above the electron-positron (and, as far as is known, the muon-antimuon) pair production thresholds, at least if one restricts oneself to spin-zero scattering (spin one has three photons, and hence the complications of interpretation of a three body problem). One needs to access hadronic energy levels before one sees structure corresponding to little hard bits of stuff on some sort of springs (forces between the bits) inside any “elementary” particles. If anyone knows differently, proper references are required.<br class=""><br class="">Likewise, reversing the process, one does not observe two (or more) bits within the electron (or muon), so any models positing this are, by the scientific method, simply not correct. The "two bit" hypothesis is simply contradicted by experiment. Sorry.<br class=""><br class="">Likewise, Wolf's earlier comment is apposite, if there are two (or more) bits,<span class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>they need forces holding them together. If one is going to describe this sort of stuff without just hand-waving you are anyway going to need a theory (with the bits and with the forces between them) that can be subject to test. Theories are things like the Maxwell equations or Newtons laws, with differential equations, Lagrangian theories with contributions to action, A Hamiltonian equation, with contributions to the energy, or tensor equations of space, time and curvature, as in general relativity. This was what was missing in Martin and my original conjecture about the electron nature and why both he and I are investigating possible extensions to theory, I in the set of differential equations posited in 2014 at Marseilles and 2015 at SPIE (and still under development), he in extending the Bateman method in electromagnetism (amongst other things). If we want to get serious we need to move to developing theories testable by experiment, otherwise we could make up and talk about whatever we like.<br class=""><br class="">This is what makes solving the puzzle so interesting: there is a lot that we know about the things we are trying to describe. Any theories we come up must be consistent with known experimental facts if they are to describe reality as it is observed. Self-evidently.<br class=""><br class="">Regards, JGW.</span></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF534496" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Chip Akins [<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, October 11, 2017 12:55 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Fw: A composite electron?<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Hi Grahame</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">I think you are may be correct, in that it may take two photons to make an electron positron pair. It is clear that it would take two photons of .511MeV at least.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">But due to the charge and spin considerations, comparing photons to electrons/positrons, it still seems that one “polarity” of each of the photons is used to form one fermion.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">This seems to be the simplest way to explain both spin and charge of the fermions from a causal basis.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Chip</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr Grahame Blackwell<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:49 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] Fw: A composite electron?</span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Hi Chip & All,</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">[repeat as my first send doesn't appear to have arrived - apologies if any duplication]</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Can somebody point me in the direction of experimental evidence of a single photon being split into two parts to form an electron-positron pair? I was under the impression that such pair production takes an opposing pair of photons of requisite energy.</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">It's my understanding that the history of this discovery goes back to Lev Landau's seminal experiments in 1934 (with his student Evgeny Lifshitz) where he identified the fact that particle collider experiments producing such pairs always hinged on release of high-energy photons that then collided to form those pairs - collisions of photons, in my understanding, always involve more than one photon. In December of that year - presumably based on this finding - Breit & Wheeler defined their well-documented process, which again involves collisions between opposing photons.</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">The only practical implementation, to my knowledge, of a process whereby e-/e+ pairs have been produced from photons alone was the SLAC experiment in 1997, where a 'Multiphoton Breit-Wheeler Process' was implemented, successively ramping up the energies of photons in a laser cavity to the point where, after around four collisions, they reached the required energies to form e-/e+ pairs on further collision with bombarding photons.</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Clearly it's possible for a photon to be split - Compton Scattering is a practical illustration in which part of a photon's energy is absorbed by a (pre-existent) material particle to give it momentum and the rest of that photon continues on its way with reduced frequency/energy. However I know of NO situation in which a single photon has been transformed into a particle-antiparticle pair, as is being suggested below.</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">[As a point of detail, I find it hard to envisage how linear momentum, angular momentum and energy could all be conserved by such a happening.]</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Those who are happily discussing it as if it's 'de facto', I'd be really glad of your references for same.</span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">If no such (reliable) references exist, I'd suggest that to proceed on the basis that it IS a reality would be questionable, to say the least.</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">[For avoidance of doubt: Colliding two opposing photons to thus form two particles is most assuredly NOT "splitting a photon", in my book - though it IS re-apportioning the energies & momenta of those two photons to re-cast them as particles.]</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Thanks,</span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Grahame</span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: navy; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">----- Original Message -----</span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" title="chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Chip Akins</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:22 PM</span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] A composite electron?</span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Hi Richard</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Exactly! The mere act of splitting a photon (with the requisite energy) causes each “half photon” to confine itself and the half photons become an electron/positron pair.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Andrew suggested in the SPIE conference we attended, that the electron was half a photon (a rectified photon is what I think he said).</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">This is part of the concept I have been trying to convey. The rest of the concept is that space is composed in a way which makes this possible. A two component tension medium. This scenario creates quantized electric charge, as we observe. Creates mass, as we observe. Creates the spin we observe for photon and electron. Makes more energetic particles smaller particles, as we observe. And agrees with experiment regarding the velocity of electric charge, which is much easier to conduct and less ambiguous than the current LIGO findings.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Regarding LIGO and gravity: Binary pulsars have been studied for some time. Their orbits simply do not deteriorate at the rate they would if gravity propagated at light speed. Many, who firmly believe in the postulate of relativity that nothing can travel faster than c, have attempted to explain this away. But I have found none of these explanations to be plausible (in my opinion). The simplest explanation is the gravity is faster than light.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">That does not mean that it is impossible for two massive bodies to generate a wave which has a phase velocity near or at light speed. That is quite possible, and perhaps even probable.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">But back to the photon and electron. I think you are on the right track with this.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span style="" class="">Chip</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 09, 2017 11:59 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Andrew Meulenberg <</span><a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>; Martin Rivas <</span><a href="mailto:martin.rivas@ehu.es" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">martin.rivas@ehu.es</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>; David Hestenes <</span><a href="mailto:Hestenes@asu.edu" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hestenes@asu.edu</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>; robert hudgins <</span><a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">hudginswr@msn.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] A composite electron?</span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Hello Andrew and all,</div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> De Broglie proposed his 2 spin-1/2 particle photon idea (not sure if he also had a model for this) in the early 30’s in his book "La Physique Nouvelle et les Quanta” (available free at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://archive.org/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">archive.org</a>) and in English translation as "<a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007G309U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 102, 192); text-decoration: none;" class="">The revolution in physics: A non-mathematical survey of quanta</span></a>”, available at <a href="http://amazon.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Amazon.com</a>. With the help of Google Translate (slightly edited) I give below what de Broglle wrote on this (p. 277-278 in the French edition):</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><span lang="EN" style="font-family: inherit; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">From these general remarks, we have concluded that, in order to constitute a theory of the photon, we must first use a relativistic form of wave mechanics comprising elements of symmetry due to polarization and, secondly, introduce something to differentiate the photon from the other particles. The first part of this program is realized immediately by using the theory of the electron of Dirac that we studied previously. We know that Dirac's theory is relativistic and that it contains elements of symmetry with a marked kinship with those of the polarization of light. Nevertheless, it was not sufficient to suppose that the photon is a particle of negligible mass obeying the equations of the Dirac theory, for the model of the photon thus obtained would have, so to speak, only half the symmetry of the real photon; moreover, it would, like the electron, apparently obey Fermi statistics and could not be annihilated in the photoelectric effect. We need something more.</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><span lang="EN" style="font-family: inherit; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">This something more, we tried to introduce on the assumption that the photon is constituted not of a Dirac particle, but of two. It can be realized that these two particles or half-photons must be complementary to each other in the same sense as the positive electron is complementary to the negative electron in Dirac</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">’</span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: inherit; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">s hole theory. Such a pair of complementary particles is liable to annihilate itself by contact with matter and yielding all its energy, and this perfectly accounts for the chracteristics of the photoelectric effect. Moreover, the photon then being constituted by two elementary particles with spin h/4pi must obey Bose-Einstein statistics, as required by the accuracy of Planck's law for black-body radiation. Finally, this photon model makes it possible to define an electromagnetic field linked to the probability of annihilation of the photon, a field which obeys Maxwell</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">’</span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: inherit; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);" class="">s equations and possesses all the characteristics of the electromagnetic light wave. Although it is still premature to pronounce definitively on the value of this attempt, it is indisputable that it leads to interesting results and that it heavily draws attention to the properties of symmetry of complementary particles whose existence, suggested by the Dirac theory, was verified by the discovery of the positive electron.</span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""> </pre></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">So what I have called in the past a spin-1/2 charged photon I now think should be called a spin-1/2 charged half-photon, since two of them (one positive and one negative) would move in a double helix to form a spin 1 photon which helps generate electromagnetic waves. This renaming should also solve the semantic problem of the name of this superluminal charged spin-1/2 particle , which I would no longer consider to be a variety of photon, since it would take two of them to make a photon. Such a photon model could easily generate an electron-positron pair when near an atomic nucleus that absorbs excess momentum (creating two rest masses) and splits a sufficiently energetic photon into an e-p pair. Comments? </div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">On Oct 2, 2017, at 5:20 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;">Dear Folks,</p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">The composite electron model has a history of which I was not aware. From mid-right column of page 4 of (free access):</div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/</a><b class="">the-last-challenge-of-modern-physics</b>-2090-0902-1000217.php?aid=87682</p><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Louis de Broglie elaborated a most promising hypothesis to help</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">explain these special characteristics of the photon [7]. Having analyzed</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">them in light of the verifed aspects of the various pertaining theories,</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">he eventually concluded that the only way for an electromagnetic</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">photon to satisfy at the same time Bose-Einstein's statistic and Planck's</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">law, and to perfectly explain the photoelectric e</span><span class="gmail-fontstyle0"><span style="font-family: 'Cambria Math', serif;" class="">ff</span>ect while obeying</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Maxwell's equations and conforming to the symmetry property of</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">complementary corpuscles in Dirac's Hole Theory, would be for it to</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">be made not of one corpuscle, but of two corpuscles, or half-photons,</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">that would be complementary, like the electron is complementary to</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">the positron in Dirac's Hole Theory [15].</span><br class=""><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">This conclusion mandates the association of charges (possibly</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">unsigned) to each half-photon, and consequently to the photon itself, ...</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> </p></div><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">7. Michaud A (2016) On De Broglie’s Double-particle Photon Hypothesis. J Phys</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Math 7: 153.</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">15. De Broglie L (1937) New physics and quanta, Flammarion, 2</span><span class="gmail-fontstyle0"><span style="font-size: 4pt;" class="">nd<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>1993 new</span><br class=""><span class="gmail-fontstyle0">Preface.</span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;">This would imply that, historically, the Nature of Light is even more curious than most of us thought.</p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Andrew M.</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Hello Martin (and all),</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> Thank you for this summary of your CC-CM approach to a moving particle such as an electron. My approach to modeling an electron is quite similar to yours, except that in my approach the CC (center of charge) is the position of a light-speed spin-1/2 charged quantum particle that I call a choton. It is in circular motion in a resting electron and moves helically in a moving electron. The linear momentum of the choton in a resting electron is Po=mc=2.73x10^-22 kg m/s = 0.511 MeV/c (and its energy is mc^2= 0.511 MeV) and this momentum mc circles with radius Ro= L-compton/4pi = hbar/2mc = 1.93x10^-13m at the zitterbewegung frequency f-zitt=2mc^2/h. The choton’s average position as the choton circles around is what you call the CM (center of mass). In a resting electron the choton (at the position CC) and the CM are separated by the distance Ro, with the choton circling around its CM at the zitter frequency. Due to its circular motion with its changing momentum direction, the choton appears to be acted on by a centripetal force Fc=dp/dt = w Po = w-zitt Po = 0.424 N , where w-zitt (omega-zitt) = 2 mc^2/hbar = 1.55 x 10^21 rad/sec. The choton’s centripetal acceleration A-cent in this circular motion in a resting electron is A-cent = r w^2 = Ro (w-zitt)^2 = 4.66x10^29 m/s^2. My article “Derivation of the inertial mass m=Eo/c^2 of an electron composed of a circling spin-1/2 charge photon” at <a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research%23papers" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers</a> (4<sup class="">th</sup> article) also shows that the above circling choton (spin-1/2 charged photon) has an inertial mass m = Eo/c^2 = 0.511MeV/c^2 derived from its circling momentum mc=Eo/c.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> When no external force (besides the apparent 0.424 N central force) acts on the choton, the moving electron model moves longitudinally with velocity<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">v</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and with momentum<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">p</b>=gamma m<b class="">v</b>. The choton circulates with its longitudinal momentum component P-long = gamma mv, which is the electron’s linear momentum, and with a transverse momentum component P-trans = Po = mc. Using the Pythagorean equation, this gives the choton’s total momentum directed along its helical trajectory as P-total^2 = P-long^2 + P-trans^2 = (gamma mv)^2 + (mc)^2 = (gamma mc)^2, or P-total = gamma mc. The choton’s corresponding total energy is E-total = P-total c = gamma mc^2, which is the same as a relativistic electron’s total energy. </div><h4 style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 9pt;" class=""><span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""> When an external electric field<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>E<span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>acts on the circulating choton, the choton (with its inertial mass m=0.511 MeV/c^2) is accelerated by a net force<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Fnet<span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>equal to the rapidly rotating centripetal force<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Fc<span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">= 0.424 N plus the external force<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>F<span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">=-e</span>E.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">The total force on the choton is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Fnet<span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Fc<span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+ e</span>E<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">= m<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>a-total<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">in the non-relativistic case or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Fnet<span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>= d</span>p-total<span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">/dt in the relativistic case. The choton’s helical motion (the motion of the CC) will be changed by the external electric field<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>E<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">acting on the choton, and the choton’s CM (average position) will be affected accordingly, and move in the direction of the applied external force<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>E<span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">.</span></h4><h4 style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 9pt;" class=""><span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""> There are also quantum mechanical features of the above motion. As the choton changes its helical trajectory due to the applied electric field<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>E<span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">, the choton’s transverse momentum component P-trans = mc adjusts its orientation so that P-trans continues to be transverse to the choton’s new longitudinal motion with its new longitudinal component velocity<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>v’<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">(the new electron velocity). In this way the calculated spin of the choton electron model continues to be Ro x Po = hbar/2 and the Pythogorean momentum relation continues to be P-total^2 = P-long^2 + P-trans^2 (which is mathematically equivalent to the relativistic energy-momentum equation E^2 = p^2 c^2 +m^2 c4). Further information on the spin-1/2 charged photon model is at “Electron’s are spin 1/2 charged photons generating the de Broglie wavelength” at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="">https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers</span></a><span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""> (19<sup class="">th</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>article).</span></h4><h4 style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 9pt;" class=""><span style="font-weight: normal;" class=""> In summary, the choton electron model does not need to be a rigid body to maintain the relation between CC and CM. All forces (including the apparent centripetal force F-cent) act on the choton (at the CC), which has its own inertial mass, producing the choton’s acceleration and average center of mass position CM. </span></h4><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class="">with warm regards,</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> Richard</div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria;"> </p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; 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