<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi John, <span style="font-family: Arial;" class="">André, Chip and all,</span><div class=""> Deriving the de Broglie wavelength of an electron model without superluminal motion is easy (in hindsight, since de Broglie did it using special relativity.) But try getting, without superluminal motion, the spin-1 of a non-pointlike photon model (for a photon-in-a-box or otherwise) AND the spin-1/2 of a highly relativistic non-pointlike electron model. In either case there will be some longitudinal momentum Plong, at light speed for a photon model and at very near light speed for a highly relativistic electron model, as well as some significant locally transverse linear momentum Ptrans (even if the net transverse linear momentum of the photon model is zero as in the double-helix photon model) that generates spin Sz = R x Ptrans = 1 hbar for a photon model or 1/2 hbar for a highly relativistic electron model . A longitudinal light-speed or near-light-speed linear momentum vector plus a significant local transverse linear momentum vector gives a diagonal local linear momentum vector with a corresponding diagonal velocity vector whose magnitude is greater than c. Putting a photon model’s or electron model's transverse oscillatory motion, that generates its spin, into two different transverse dimensional spaces is ingenious, but if the photon is to move along longitudinally as a whole and not leave the two transverse dimensional spaces behind, I think there will still be some diagonal superluminal motion. I would be happy to see a proved counterexample.</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 23, 2017, at 12:19 PM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Hi Richard and everyone,<br class=""><br class="">You do not need to add anything. "Superluminal" is not needed. If you consider light-in-a-box (including light in a box of its own making) the de Broglie wavelength follows from the beat frequencies of the proper relativistic transformations of the light going with the motion and that going against. Remeber, one needs to consider BOTH the Doppler shift AND the SR transformations. Then everything works. Martin is writing a definitive paper on this.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Regards, John.<br class=""><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF210496" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:36 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" class="">srp2@srpinc.org</a>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class="">Hello André, Chip, John and all,<div class=""> <br class=""><h4 class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 9pt;"><span class="" style="font-weight: normal;"> I also think that there is “an additional factor” that settles an electron into an atomic resonant state. In my view the electron is composed of this additional factor, a charged superluminal energy quantum that circulates and generates quantum waves having the de Broglie wavelength. These quantum waves self-resonate in regions around an atomic nucleus. When an available resonant region around an atomic nucleus is found, the superluminal energy quantum settles into this region and continues to emit quantum waves that for some period of time maintain it in this resonance state in the atom. The electron is more likely to be detected wherever the amplitude of this resonant state (the electron’s eigenfunction for this state) is larger.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></h4><h4 class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 9pt;"><span class="" style="font-weight: normal;"> This idea is not fully developed but is hinted at in “</span><span class="" style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); font-weight: normal;">Transluminal Energy Quantum Model of a Spin-½ Charged Photon Composing an Electron”,</span><span class="" style="font-weight: normal;"> </span><span class="" style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); background-color: white; font-weight: normal;">“Electrons Are Spin</span><span class="" style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); font-weight: normal;">-½<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); background-color: white; font-weight: normal;">Charged Photons Generating the de Broglie Wavelength”,</span><span class="" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“</span><span class="" style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26); font-weight: normal;">The Charged-Photon Model of the Electron Fits the Schrödinger Equation</span><span class="" style="font-weight: normal;">” and “</span><span class="" style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26); font-weight: normal;">The Charged-Photon Model of the Electron, the de Broglie Wavelength, and a New Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research%23papers" class="" target="_blank">https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers</a>. What I called a charged photon in theses articles I am now calling a charged half-photon.</span><span class="" style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35); font-weight: normal;"></span></h4><div class=""><span class="" style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26); font-weight: normal;"> Richard</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> <br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:52 AM, André Michaud <<a href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" class="" target="_blank">srp2@srpinc.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="userStyles" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;"><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi Chip, and all</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">You write: "</span></span></span><i class=""><span class="" lang="EN-CA">I prefer the second option, there is some additional factor interacting with the electron, to cause these quantized orbitals, and understand from Andre’s writings that he feels the same way.</span></i><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">"</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">You are exactly right about what I think. I came to the same conclusion as yourself (the second option) way back in fact when I finally lighted up to the fact that the wave function originally was related to electrons orbitals by Schrödinger because he was inspired in this direction by a conclusion of de Broglie that electrons had to be captive in some form of resonance state about nuclei.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I think that this was sort of lost sight of in the community due to the acrimonious debate that raged on afterwards between the proponents of the Copenhagen school and the determinists, which indeed was fundamentally whether the first or second option applied in physical reality.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">After I came to the second option conclusion, I started to look around for descriptions of this resonance state that could be related to the wave function but found nothing, as if the only option that had been explored was the first one, with which the Heisenberg solution was in harmony and also later Feynman's path integral.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">To me, the idea of "resonance" always made me think of a vibrating guitar string, whose shape and extent of the volume visited by the transversally oscillating string can be described by the wave function. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I suspected that this might have been what de Broglie had in mind also, and became convinced that the electron could remain localized while being captive within the theoretical volume defined by the wave function, on an axial resonance trajectory (sort of stochastic maybe to some extent) that may be describable mathematically and that could be due to electric versus magnetic interaction between the electron and the nuclei.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I see that you lean in a similar direction Chip. I have explored the possible electric vs magnetic potential explanation to a large extent, but I am at a loss as to how to exactly mathematize the localized resonance trajectory proper within the volume definable by the wave function. You seem to be better equipped mathematically than me to address such an issue, with your<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="">¼ de Broglie wavelength</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">exploration.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">For a general overview of how the trispatial geometry allows defining this type of electromagnetic electron equilibrium states involving both electric and magnetic aspects of energy, here is my final paper on the whole concept:</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf" class="" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf</a></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Even though it involves an entirely new paradigm that may feel very unfamiliar at first, I hope it nevertheless makes some sense to you.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 16.866666793823242px;"><span class="" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span class="" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Best Regards</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>---<br class="">André Michaud<br class="">GSJournal admin<br class=""><a href="http://www.gsjournal.net/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.gsjournal.net/</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.srpinc.org/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.srpinc.org/</a><br class=""><br class=""><span class="">On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 05:16:52 -0600, "Chip Akins"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span><br class=""><br class=""><div class="WordSection1"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Hi All</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">But in all this, regarding de Broglie’s wavelength and the electron orbitals, there is still something missing.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Either we have to assume that the electron occupies the entire circumference of the orbital simultaneously by its wavefunction, or there is some additional factor interacting with the electron, to cause these quantized orbitals.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">I prefer the second option, there is some additional factor interacting with the electron, to cause these quantized orbitals, and understand from Andre’s writings that he feels the same way.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">In the hydrogen atom there is a simple, naturally occurring cause, for a “matter wave” which is exactly ¼ the de Broglie wavelength. This “matter wave” is a beat frequency created by the perceived frequency difference with motion, of the outer radius and inner radius of the electron as it circulates about the proton. I found this to be interesting, and wanted to share this observation.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Chip</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>André Michaud<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:52 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"</span></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Hello John,<br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">You are absolutely right.</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=""><span class="">In fact de Broglie derived this relation with respect to the values of the Bohr ground state orbit energy parameters.</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=""><span class="">Heisenberg did the same, except that he formulated the relation so that it could account for a precision drift of the chosen velocity on either side of the selected velocity value about the ground orbit of the Bohr atom.</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=""><span class="">In 1923, he himself expressed his uncertainty principle as delta_x delta_p equal-or-larger-than h, which is the same as delta_x approx_equal to h / (m delta_v_x), which is fundamentally de Broglie's single valued h/mv for the Bohr ground state orbit.</span><br class=""><br class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">This is at the origin of Heisenberg's statistical solution.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Best Regards ---<br class="">André Michaud<br class="">GSJournal admin<br class=""><a href="http://www.gsjournal.net/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.gsjournal.net/</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.srpinc.org/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.srpinc.org/</a><br class=""><br class="">On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 03:17:31 +0000, John Williamson wrote:</span></p><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Dear Albrecht,<br class=""><br class="">Your error is more fundamental than you know. See below in green.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;"><hr class="" width="100%" size="2" align="center"></div><div id="divRpF178154" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Viv Robinson [<a href="mailto:viv@universephysics.com" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">viv@universephysics.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:49 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Albrecht Giese; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"</span><br class=""><span class=""></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div></div><div class=""><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Dear Albrecht,</span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">IMHO you have a fundamental flaw in your first paragraph below. A single electron cannot generate an interference pattern, any more than can a single photon. An observer moving with a single electron will, if the screen is angled towards him, see only a single spot where the electron impinged upon that screen. That is all. If he repeats that observation say 10,000 times he will still only see on spot each time the electron impinges upon the screen. If the spots are recorded, each time he travels with another electron he will see an interference image slowly appear because it is dependent upon the frame of reference of the slit and screen. The motion of the observer does not interfere with that pattern.</span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Sincerely</span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></div></div><div id="bloop_customfont" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Vivian Robinson</span></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div id="bloop_sign_1511389963683457792" class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">On 23 November 2017 at 8:24:21 AM, Albrecht Giese (<a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">phys@a-giese.de</a>) wrote:</span></div><blockquote class="" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Dear André,</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">the "error" which I see for de Broglie is his assumed relation lambda = h / momentum .<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="color: green;">Your error, and this is an error not an "error" is that you assume that de Broglie "assumed lambda = h / momentum. Louis de Broglie did not assume lambda = h / momentum - he derived it. From relativity. Please do not assume what you think other people assume. Remember, de Broglie was very smart, and this relation had to come from somewhere, no? It would be instructive for you to understand the how and why he did this before making uninformed comments on it.</span><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">This relation fails at any linear transformation. Take as an example the scattering of electrons at a multi-slit. If you look at it from the rest frame of the multi-slit then de Broglie's wavelength describes correctly the generated interference pattern. However, if this situation is observed by someone moving at the side of the electron the result is completely wrong. Assume as an extreme situation that the observer moves together with the electron. Then in the frame of the observer the electron has the momentum = 0 and so the wavelength is infinite. This means: no interference! But the pattern does of course not disappear and will be visible to the observer. This shows that de Broglie does not even fulfil Galileo's physical rule of relativity believed and proven since 600 years.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Regarding the particle mass: My equation is simple: m = h(bar) / (c*R) , where R is the radius of the particle. And R can be easily determined by use of the known magnetic momentum of the particle.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">The mag. momentum of a circling elementary charge is classically: mm = (1/2)*c*e<sub class="">0</sub>*R</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">The mag. moment of particles is known. So, R can be determined. This R inserted into the equation above yields the particle mass with an accuracy of about 10<sup class="">-3</sup>. - This is now based only on the strong force. If the result is corrected by the influence of the electrical charge, this yields the Landé factor in case of the electron. This applied yields the mass with an accuracy of 2*10<sup class="">-6</sup>.<br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">References for this are:<a href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and<a href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.ag-physics.org/electron</a>.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="">Hope this explains it. Otherwise please ask.<br class=""><br class="">Albrecht</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""></span></div><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><a href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-18%2022:54:00%20AEST" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Am 18.11.2017 um 22:54</a>schrieb André Michaud:</span></div></div><blockquote class="" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div class=""><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Albrecht,</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I must say that I don't see as "errors" conclusions that were drawn before more precise knowledge was discovered. For example, I don't think that Newton made an "error" by not immediately concluding to the possibility the fixed velocity of light. He simply did not know about it because this had not yet been discovered.</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The same for de Broglie in my opinion, he worked with the knowledge available a the time.</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">As i understand it, what we call the de Broglie wave is simply a representation of the sum of the energies of the rest mass of the electron plus the translational energy related to its momentum. How can this be wrong at the general level, unless I misunderstand the whole concept?</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><p class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" lang="EN-CA" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">As for Hönl and the mass of the electron, I was meaning this rhetorically. I simply mean that any solution that exactly provides the exact mass of the electron as experimentally measured by numerous means can only be a proper description, so your description has to be correct. The exact mass of the electron has been experimentally confirmed for over 1 century. I do not know where to look to examine your solution. Can you provide a link?</span><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">---<br class="">André Michaud<br class="">GSJournal admin<br class=""><a href="http://www.gsjournal.net/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.gsjournal.net/</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.srpinc.org/" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.srpinc.org/</a><br class=""><br class=""><i class=""><a href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-19%2006:56:34%20AEST" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:56:34 +0100</a>, Albrecht Giese wrote:</i><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dear André,</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">there is no doubt that de Broglie has made great contributions to the development of physics. So, if there is an anniversary in honour of him and even the Nobel price, then as many as possible of his achievements are of course presented.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">My concern, however, refers to a specific result of his early activities. The assumed necessity to introduce the "harmony of waves" and to deduce the "de Broglie" wavelength are based on a logical error and on a misunderstanding of SR.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">It is a quite funny situation that in spite of this error his result seems usable to explain certain physical processes. It is one goal of my physical activities to understand this. In one fundamental case I have found an explanation. That is the scattering of electrons at a double / multiple slit. If such experiment is viewed from a specific inertial frame (the one normally used), de Brolgie's calculation conforms to the measurement. However in any other frame it fails. - I can explain why the de Broglie wave seems to work even though it is erroneous. (Not here but I can give you a reference if you want it.)</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Regarding Hönl I do not understand what you say. Hönl did NOT get a correct mass by assuming only the electrical force in the electron. He was wrong by a factor of about 300 as I wrote earlier. But the calculation which I did is correct with high precision and the formula does not have any free parameters, only the standard ones. I do not know any other model which has this. Do you? Then please give me a reference.</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Best regards<br class="">Albrecht</span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class="" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br class="">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" class="" target="_blank" style="color: purple; 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