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    <p>Thank you Albrecht and Al these original papers give a great deal
      of insight into the derivation and thinking <br>
    </p>
    <p>It is especially noteworthy that DeBroglie assumed SR results as
      gospel and defined the comptom wave length purely from symbol
      manipulation without any further physical  <br>
    </p>
    <p>"(1.1.5) h*f = m<sub>0</sub>*c<sup>2</sup><br>
       The frequency 'f' is to be measured, of course, <b>in the rest
        frame of the energy packet."</b><br>
    </p>
    <p>This may address Albrechts "error" and convert it to a
      "limitation"? <br>
    </p>
    <p>For reference Compton's paper is at <br>
    </p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.21.483">https://journals.aps.org/pr/pdf/10.1103/PhysRev.21.483</a></p>
    <p>Wolf<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/26/2017 9:34 AM, Albrecht Giese
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3026404c-3131-6e9d-f768-00c39a72abd2@a-giese.de">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <p>Hi All,<br>
      </p>
      <p>attached I send you the English translation of de Broglie's PhD
        thesis where he develops his idea of his special wave. The
        translation is done by Al Kracklauer.</p>
      <p> </p>
      <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed;
        font-size: 14px;" lang="x-unicode"><a
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
          href="http://aflb.ensmp.fr/LDB-oeuvres/De_Broglie_Kracklauer.pdf"
          moz-do-not-send="true">http://aflb.ensmp.fr/LDB-oeuvres/De_Broglie_Kracklauer.pdf</a>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      The essential chapter for this topic is no. 1  "The Phase Wave".
      <p>Best regards<br>
        Albrecht<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 25.11.2017 um 21:49 schrieb André
        Michaud:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:201711252049.vAPKntBp012174@mail69c0.megamailservers.com">
        <title></title>
        <div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
          12pt; color: #000000;">
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">Hi Andrew,</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">I have been thinking on
                      your comment: "</span></span><i><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span
                        style="line-height:115%">However, I have not
                        seen anything written on a possible connection
                        between intrinsic spin and the deBroglie
                        wavelength (or frequency).</span></span></i><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">"</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">Thinking about it,
                      frequency and wavelength describe the observed and
                      measurable "oscillating behavior" of energy,
                      frequency being the number of time a quantum will
                      complete its EM cycle per second, while the
                      wavelength is the distance the quantum can cover
                      during one such cycle at its natural velocity.</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">Spin on its part has to
                      do with how EM particles relate to each other,
                      either parallel spin alignment or antiprallel spin
                      alignment. Parallel spin alignment is related to
                      repulsion between particles while antiparallel
                      spin alignment, which is associated to covalent
                      bounding and orbital pair filling, is related to
                      attraction.</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">We know that this is not
                      due to electric charges, because 2 electrons (same
                      sign of electric charges by definition, thus
                      electrically repelling) can be joined in covalent
                      pairs by antiparallel spin alignemnt, so this
                      leaves only the magnetic aspect of the energy
                      making up the substance of the electron mass to be
                      related to spin.</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">This is examplified by
                      this experiment carried out by Kotler et al. in
                      2014 with two electrons from two different atoms
                      forced to interact in parallel magnetic spin
                      alignment, which reveals the inverse cube
                      interaction involved, which is different from the
                      inverse square electric interacton:</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%"><a
href="https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13403.epdf?referrer_access_token=yoC6RXrPyxwvQviChYrG0tRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PdPJ4geER1fKVR1YXH8GThqECstdb6e48mZm0qQo2OMX_XYURkzBSUZCrxM8VipvnG8FofxB39P4lc-1UIKEO1"
                        style="color:blue; text-decoration:underline"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13403.epdf?referrer_access_token=yoC6RXrPyxwvQviChYrG0tRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PdPJ4geER1fKVR1YXH8GThqECstdb6e48mZm0qQo2OMX_XYURkzBSUZCrxM8VipvnG8FofxB39P4lc-1UIKEO1</a></span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">From my understanding,
                      magnetic spin and  charges have to do with the
                      nature of the "substance" that electromagnetic
                      energy is, while frequency and wavelength have to
                      do with the nature of its "oscillating behavior".</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">This would be my 2 cents
                      contribution to your other comment: "</span></span><i><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span
                        style="line-height:115%">I hope that some others
                        in the group, who have more ease with
                        mathematics than I, will be able to contribute
                        to this development.</span></span></i><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">".</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">By the way, I don`t feel
                      particulary mathematically apt either. I think we
                      each become more familiar with what part of math
                      we needed to clarify issues we were interested in
                      in the past. </span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
                style="line-height:115%"><span
                  style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
                      style="line-height:115%">Best Regards</span></span></span></span></span></p>
          <footer class="signatureDivContainer">
            <footer class="signatureContainer" style="display:inline;">---<br>
              André Michaud<br>
              GSJournal admin<br>
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          <footer class="replyforwardcontainer"><br>
            <br>
            <span>On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:12:28 -0500, Andrew Meulenberg
              <mules333@gmail.com> wrote:</mules333@gmail.com></span><br>
             
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>Dear Chip and all,<br>
                     </div>
                  Thank you for the deBroglie paper. It surprised me in
                  several ways.
                  <ol>
                    <li>The biggest surprise was that the word <u>wavelength</u>
                      does not appear at all.
                      <ul>
                        <li>even tho lambda appears in eq 1, it is not
                          defined. So,</li>
                        <li>while it may have been modesty or lost in
                          translation, wavelength was not important for
                          his story.</li>
                      </ul>
                    </li>
                    <li>deBroglie emphasized frequency and the, now
                      near-universal, use of deBrogle wavelength rather
                      than frequency was a convenience for
                      experimentalists.</li>
                    <li>deBroglie talks of the wave as being 'physical'
                      (unlike that of the wave function of QM), yet as
                      far as I could tell, he does not mention what is
                      'waving'.</li>
                    <li>The word <u>spin</u> does not appear in the
                      paper.
                      <ul>
                        <li>deBroglie's original work evolved at the
                          same time at the concept of spin and
                          therefore, as a thesis, would likely not
                          include such esoterica.</li>
                        <li>the fact that this present (1970) paper does
                          not include spin (as a potential source of the
                          frequency) in a relativity and QM-driven paper
                          appears inexcusable.</li>
                        <li>However, that apparent 'failure' is based on
                          my concept that the physical 'wave' is a
                          relativistic effect driving the precession of
                          the physical spin vector.</li>
                        <li>The nearly 50 years since 1970 has produced
                          many changes. However, I have not seen
                          anything written on a possible connection
                          between intrinsic spin and the deBroglie
                          wavelength (or frequency).</li>
                      </ul>
                    </li>
                  </ol>
                </div>
                The concept of an electron being a bound photon feeds
                the information base on spin and its implications. I
                hope that some others in the group, who have more ease
                with mathematics than I, will be able to contribute to
                this development.<br>
                 </div>
              Andrew M.
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>._________________</div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div class="gmail_extra"> 
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 24, 2017
                            at 6:36 PM, Chip Akins <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chipakins@gmail.com</a>></span>
                            wrote:
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div link="blue" vlink="purple"
                                lang="EN-US">
                                <div
                                  class="m_-7043474106834704785WordSection1">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="color:black">Hi Andre</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="color:black">I don’t know
                                      if you have read this, I suspect
                                      you have.</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="color:black">Attached is de
                                      Broglie’s “The Reinterpretation of
                                      Wave Mechanics”.</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="color:black">Chip</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <div>
                                    <div
                                      style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                      #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
                                      0in 0in">
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                                          General [mailto:<a
                                            href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">general-bounces+<wbr>chipakins</a>=<a
href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">gmail.com@lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>André
                                          Michaud<br>
                                          <b>Sent:</b> Friday, November
                                          24, 2017 4:54 PM<br>
                                          <span><b>To:</b> <a
                                              href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                                            <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                            [General] Compton and de
                                            Broglie wavelengththe
                                            "error"</span></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hi
                                        Albrecht,<br>
                                        <br>
                                        <span>It seems that you "assume"
                                          that de Broglie deduced his
                                          wave from considerations about
                                          relativity.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          To my knowledge, this is not
                                          the case.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          If you can substanciate your
                                          claim by referring us to a
                                          verifiable text from de
                                          Broglie that explains his
                                          deduction from SR, this would
                                          be greatly appreciated. I am
                                          still in learning mode.</span><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <span>Best Regards ---<br>
                                          André Michaud<br>
                                          GSJournal admin</span></span><br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br>
                                      <a href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <span
                                        style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><span>On
                                          Fri, 24 Nov 2017 23:25:09
                                          +0100, Albrecht Giese wrote:</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black">Hi André,
                                          Chip, and all,</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black">if we
                                          discuss de Broglie's concept
                                          of a particle wave, we should
                                          in my view refer to his
                                          original work and not to
                                          others who have used the
                                          results (well understood or
                                          misunderstood) in other
                                          applications.</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black">So, de
                                          Broglie in original:</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">It is of course
                                          correct that de Broglie did
                                          not just “assume” his wave but
                                          he has deduced it from
                                          considerations about
                                          relativity. But his deduction
                                          is based on a severe error as
                                          I have explained in detail
                                          earlier. So, let’s do it
                                          again. </span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">De Broglie has
                                          seen a logical conflict
                                          between the Einstein- Planck
                                          relation (1) E=h*frequency and
                                          (2) relativistic dilation;
                                          because according to (1) the
                                          frequency has to increase at
                                          motion and according to (2)
                                          dilation will cause the
                                          frequency to decrease. But his
                                          concern is an error as this
                                          conflict does not exist.
                                          Because we have to look at an
                                          interaction of particles,
                                          which is the relevant
                                          situation. Any interaction
                                          sees frequencies which are
                                          increased by the Doppler
                                          effect. And the Doppler effect
                                          gives an over-compensation of
                                          the normal relativistic slow
                                          down so that both frequencies
                                          above will fit on their own.
                                          The same result is achieved if
                                          the temporal Lorentz
                                          transformation is properly
                                          applied. - For de Broglie's
                                          new wave no justification
                                          exists at all.</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">The comment of
                                          two of you that a single
                                          electron does not produce an
                                          interference pattern is of
                                          course correct. One electron
                                          only produces one dot on the
                                          screen. But if we assume that
                                          a bunch of electron flies to
                                          the multi-slit with same speed
                                          then the argument works. There
                                          will be an interference
                                          pattern behind the multi-slit.
                                          But if we transform the
                                          experiment into the frame of
                                          the electrons then the
                                          momentum of the electrons is
                                          zero, and so the wavelength is
                                          infinite, and seen from that
                                          frame no interference pattern
                                          can occur. But it does occur,
                                          also visible for a co-moving
                                          observer, and that shows that
                                          de Broglie's idea is
                                          erroneous. - I have shown in
                                          calculations (but not in this
                                          place) why under certain
                                          circumstances the impression
                                          occurs that de Broglie is
                                          correct. But in general it is
                                          wrong. De Broglie's approach
                                          violates Galileo's relativity
                                          as well as Lorentzian
                                          relativity. </span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">You have
                                          mentioned the good results of
                                          the use of the de Broglie wave
                                          to determine the quantization
                                          of atomic orbits. It is true
                                          that it works, but it has a
                                          similar problem like for the
                                          scattering of electrons.
                                          Assume a hydrogen atom moving
                                          into axial direction with a
                                          similar speed as the speed of
                                          the electrons in the orbits.
                                          Then the resulting momentum of
                                          the orbiting electrons
                                          increases by about 40% seen
                                          from the frame at rest. So the
                                          de Broglie wavelength has to
                                          decrease by this factor and
                                          the energy of these states has
                                          to change accordingly. But in
                                          practice there will be a much
                                          smaller energy change. So also
                                          in this case de Broglie fails
                                          at a more thorough look.</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">In the mails
                                          there have been some
                                          considerations about what de
                                          Broglie did "have in mind".
                                          But what he had in mind he has
                                          written in his PhD thesis.
                                          Anything about the energy
                                          states of atoms came later and
                                          by others (like Schrödinger
                                          and Bohr).</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">Now I will be
                                          wondering about objecting
                                          arguments.</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                          style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">Albrecht</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                      <span><span style="color:black"
                                          lang="EN-GB">I thank you for
                                          your answers and arguments. I
                                          will now answer to it, of
                                          course. Which means to repeat
                                          my arguments of the last three
                                          weeks here where I have given
                                          argument which seem to have
                                          been overlooked.</span></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
                                            style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Am
                                            24.11.2017 um 01:20 schrieb
                                            Richard Gauthier:</span></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hi
                                          John,André, Chip and all, </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Deriving
                                              the de Broglie wavelength
                                              of an electron model
                                              without superluminal
                                              motion is easy (in
                                              hindsight, since de
                                              Broglie did it using
                                              special relativity.) But
                                              try getting, without
                                              superluminal motion, the
                                              spin-1 of a non-pointlike
                                              photon model (for a
                                              photon-in-a-box or
                                              otherwise) AND the
                                              spin-1/2 of a highly
                                              relativistic non-pointlike
                                              electron model. In either
                                              case there will be some
                                              longitudinal momentum
                                              Plong, at light speed for
                                              a photon model and at very
                                              near light speed for a
                                              highly relativistic
                                              electron model, as well as
                                              some significant locally
                                              transverse linear momentum
                                              Ptrans (even if the net
                                              transverse linear momentum
                                              of the photon model is
                                              zero as in the
                                              double-helix photon model)
                                              that generates spin Sz = R
                                              x Ptrans = 1 hbar for a
                                              photon model or 1/2 hbar
                                              for a highly relativistic
                                              electron model . A
                                              longitudinal light-speed
                                              or near-light-speed linear
                                              momentum vector plus a
                                              significant local
                                              transverse linear momentum
                                              vector gives a diagonal
                                              local linear momentum
                                              vector with a
                                              corresponding diagonal
                                              velocity vector whose
                                              magnitude is greater than
                                              c. Putting a photon
                                              model’s or electron
                                              model's transverse
                                              oscillatory motion, that
                                              generates its spin, into
                                              two different transverse
                                              dimensional spaces is
                                              ingenious, but if the
                                              photon is to move along
                                              longitudinally as a whole
                                              and not leave the two
                                              transverse dimensional
                                              spaces behind, I think
                                              there will still be some
                                              diagonal superluminal
                                              motion. I would be happy
                                              to see a proved
                                              counterexample.</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Richard</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <blockquote
                                            style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On Nov 23,
                                                    2017, at 12:19 PM,
                                                    John Williamson <</span><a
href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><wbr>>
                                                    wrote:</span></span></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Hi
                                                        Richard and
                                                        everyone,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        You do not need
                                                        to add anything.
                                                        "Superluminal"
                                                        is not needed.
                                                        If you consider
                                                        light-in-a-box
                                                        (including light
                                                        in a box of its
                                                        own making) the
                                                        de Broglie
                                                        wavelength
                                                        follows from the
                                                        beat frequencies
                                                        of the proper
                                                        relativistic
                                                        transformations
                                                        of the light
                                                        going with the
                                                        motion and that
                                                        going against.
                                                        Remeber, one
                                                        needs to
                                                        consider BOTH
                                                        the Doppler
                                                        shift AND the SR
                                                        transformations.
                                                        Then everything
                                                        works. Martin is
                                                        writing a
                                                        definitive paper
                                                        on this.</span></span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,
                                                      John. </span></p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div
                                                      class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center">
                                                      <hr size="2"
                                                        align="center"
                                                        width="100%"></div>
                                                    <div
                                                      id="m_-7043474106834704785divRpF210496">
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">General
                                                          [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">general-bounces+john.<wbr>williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@<wbr>lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">]
                                                          on behalf of
                                                          Richard
                                                          Gauthier [</span><a
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">]<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>Thursday,
                                                          November 23,
                                                          2017 6:36 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b></span><a
href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">srp2@srpinc.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">;
                                                          Nature of
                                                          Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>Re:
                                                          [General]
                                                          Compton and de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelengththe
                                                          "error"</span></span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="color:black">Hello André, Chip, John and all, </span></span></p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                        <h4
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span><span
style="color:black;font-weight:normal">I also think that there is “an
                                                          additional
                                                          factor” that
                                                          settles an
                                                          electron into
                                                          an atomic
                                                          resonant
                                                          state. In my
                                                          view the
                                                          electron is
                                                          composed of
                                                          this
                                                          additional
                                                          factor, a
                                                          charged
                                                          superluminal
                                                          energy quantum
                                                          that
                                                          circulates and
                                                          generates
                                                          quantum waves
                                                          having the de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelength.
                                                          These quantum
                                                          waves
                                                          self-resonate
                                                          in regions
                                                          around an
                                                          atomic
                                                          nucleus. When
                                                          an available
                                                          resonant
                                                          region around
                                                          an atomic
                                                          nucleus is
                                                          found, the
                                                          superluminal
                                                          energy quantum
                                                          settles into
                                                          this region
                                                          and continues
                                                          to emit
                                                          quantum waves
                                                          that for some
                                                          period of time
                                                          maintain it in
                                                          this resonance
                                                          state in the
                                                          atom. The
                                                          electron is
                                                          more likely to
                                                          be detected
                                                          wherever the
                                                          amplitude of
                                                          this resonant
                                                          state (the
                                                          electron’s
                                                          eigenfunction
                                                          for this
                                                          state) is
                                                          larger.</span></span></h4>
                                                        <h4
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:9.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black;font-weight:normal">This idea is not fully developed
                                                          but is hinted
                                                          at in “</span><span
style="color:#232323;font-weight:normal">Transluminal Energy Quantum
                                                          Model of a
                                                          Spin-½ Charged
                                                          Photon
                                                          Composing an
                                                          Electron”,<span
style="background:white">“Electrons Are Spin</span>-½<span
                                                          style="background:white">Charged
                                                          Photons
                                                          Generating the
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          Wavelength”,</span></span><span
style="color:black;font-weight:normal">“</span><span
                                                          style="color:#1a1a1a;font-weight:normal">The
                                                          Charged-Photon
                                                          Model of the
                                                          Electron Fits
                                                          the
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          Equation</span><span
style="color:black;font-weight:normal">”and “</span><span
                                                          style="color:#1a1a1a;font-weight:normal">The
                                                          Charged-Photon
                                                          Model of the
                                                          Electron, the
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          Wavelength,
                                                          and a New
                                                          Interpretation
                                                          of Quantum
                                                          Mechanics" at</span><a
href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research%23papers"
                                                          target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-weight:normal">https://richardgauthier.<wbr>academia.edu/research#papers</span></a><span
style="color:#1a1a1a;font-weight:normal">. What I called a charged
                                                          photon in
                                                          theses
                                                          articles I am
                                                          now calling a
                                                          charged
                                                          half-photon.</span></h4>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#1a1a1a">Richard</span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:52 AM, André Michaud <</span><a
href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">srp2@srpinc.org</a><span
style="color:black">> wrote:</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5">
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">Hi Chip, and all</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">You write: "</span><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">I
                                                          prefer the
                                                          second option,
                                                          there is some
                                                          additional
                                                          factor
                                                          interacting
                                                          with the
                                                          electron, to
                                                          cause these
                                                          quantized
                                                          orbitals, and
                                                          understand
                                                          from Andre’s
                                                          writings that
                                                          he feels the
                                                          same way.</span></i><span
style="color:black">"</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">You are exactly right about what I think. I came to
                                                          the same
                                                          conclusion as
                                                          yourself (the
                                                          second option)
                                                          way back in
                                                          fact when I
                                                          finally
                                                          lighted up to
                                                          the fact that
                                                          the wave
                                                          function
                                                          originally was
                                                          related to
                                                          electrons
                                                          orbitals by
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          because he was
                                                          inspired in
                                                          this direction
                                                          by a
                                                          conclusion of
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          that electrons
                                                          had to be
                                                          captive in
                                                          some form of
                                                          resonance
                                                          state about
                                                          nuclei.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">I think that this was sort of lost sight of in the
                                                          community due
                                                          to the
                                                          acrimonious
                                                          debate that
                                                          raged on
                                                          afterwards
                                                          between the
                                                          proponents of
                                                          the Copenhagen
                                                          school and the
                                                          determinists,
                                                          which indeed
                                                          was
                                                          fundamentally
                                                          whether the
                                                          first or
                                                          second option
                                                          applied in
                                                          physical
                                                          reality.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">After I came to the second option conclusion, I
                                                          started to
                                                          look around
                                                          for
                                                          descriptions
                                                          of this
                                                          resonance
                                                          state that
                                                          could be
                                                          related to the
                                                          wave function
                                                          but found
                                                          nothing, as if
                                                          the only
                                                          option that
                                                          had been
                                                          explored was
                                                          the first one,
                                                          with which the
                                                          Heisenberg
                                                          solution was
                                                          in harmony and
                                                          also later
                                                          Feynman's path
                                                          integral.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">To me, the idea of "resonance" always made me think
                                                          of a vibrating
                                                          guitar string,
                                                          whose shape
                                                          and extent of
                                                          the volume
                                                          visited by the
                                                          transversally
                                                          oscillating
                                                          string can be
                                                          described by
                                                          the wave
                                                          function.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">I suspected that this might have been what de
                                                          Broglie had in
                                                          mind also, and
                                                          became
                                                          convinced that
                                                          the electron
                                                          could remain
                                                          localized
                                                          while being
                                                          captive within
                                                          the
                                                          theoretical
                                                          volume defined
                                                          by the wave
                                                          function, on
                                                          an axial
                                                          resonance
                                                          trajectory
                                                          (sort of
                                                          stochastic
                                                          maybe to some
                                                          extent) that
                                                          may be
                                                          describable
                                                          mathematically
                                                          and that could
                                                          be due to
                                                          electric
                                                          versus
                                                          magnetic
                                                          interaction
                                                          between the
                                                          electron and
                                                          the nuclei.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">I see that you lean in a similar direction Chip. I
                                                          have explored
                                                          the possible
                                                          electric vs
                                                          magnetic
                                                          potential
                                                          explanation to
                                                          a large
                                                          extent, but I
                                                          am at a loss
                                                          as to how to
                                                          exactly
                                                          mathematize
                                                          the localized
                                                          resonance
                                                          trajectory
                                                          proper within
                                                          the volume
                                                          definable by
                                                          the wave
                                                          function. You
                                                          seem to be
                                                          better
                                                          equipped
                                                          mathematically
                                                          than me to
                                                          address such
                                                          an issue, with
                                                          your¼ de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelengthexploration.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">For a general overview of how the trispatial
                                                          geometry
                                                          allows
                                                          defining this
                                                          type of
                                                          electromagnetic
                                                          electron
                                                          equilibrium
                                                          states
                                                          involving both
                                                          electric and
                                                          magnetic
                                                          aspects of
                                                          energy, here
                                                          is my final
                                                          paper on the
                                                          whole concept:</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><a
href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.omicsonline.org/<wbr>open-access/gravitation-<wbr>quantum-mechanics-and-the-<wbr>least-action-<wbr>electromagneticequilibrium-<wbr>states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf</a></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">Even though it involves an entirely new paradigm
                                                          that may feel
                                                          very
                                                          unfamiliar at
                                                          first, I hope
                                                          it
                                                          nevertheless
                                                          makes some
                                                          sense to you.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="color:black">Best Regards</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">---<br>
                                                          André Michaud<br>
                                                          GSJournal
                                                          admin</span><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
                                                          Thu, 23 Nov
                                                          2017 05:16:52
                                                          -0600, "Chip
                                                          Akins"wrote:</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Hi All</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">But in all this, regarding de Broglie’s wavelength
                                                          and the
                                                          electron
                                                          orbitals,
                                                          there is still
                                                          something
                                                          missing.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Either we have to assume that the electron occupies
                                                          the entire
                                                          circumference
                                                          of the orbital
                                                          simultaneously
                                                          by its
                                                          wavefunction,
                                                          or there is
                                                          some
                                                          additional
                                                          factor
                                                          interacting
                                                          with the
                                                          electron, to
                                                          cause these
                                                          quantized
                                                          orbitals.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">I prefer the second option, there is some additional
                                                          factor
                                                          interacting
                                                          with the
                                                          electron, to
                                                          cause these
                                                          quantized
                                                          orbitals, and
                                                          understand
                                                          from Andre’s
                                                          writings that
                                                          he feels the
                                                          same way.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">In the hydrogen atom there is a simple, naturally
                                                          occurring
                                                          cause, for a
                                                          “matter wave”
                                                          which is
                                                          exactly ¼ the
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          wavelength.
                                                          This “matter
                                                          wave” is a
                                                          beat frequency
                                                          created by the
                                                          perceived
                                                          frequency
                                                          difference
                                                          with motion,
                                                          of the outer
                                                          radius and
                                                          inner radius
                                                          of the
                                                          electron as it
                                                          circulates
                                                          about the
                                                          proton. I
                                                          found this to
                                                          be
                                                          interesting,
                                                          and wanted to
                                                          share this
                                                          observation.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Chip</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                          windowtext
                                                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                          0in 0in
                                                          0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">General
                                                          [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+<wbr>chipakins=gmail.com@lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">]<b><wbr>On
                                                          Behalf Of</b>André
                                                          Michaud</span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5"><br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>Wednesday,
                                                          November 22,
                                                          2017 10:52 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple">general@lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5"><br>
                                                          <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><b>Subject:</b>Re:
                                                          [General]
                                                          Compton and de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelengththe
                                                          "error"</span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hello John,</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">You are absolutely right.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="color:black">In
                                                          fact de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          derived this
                                                          relation with
                                                          respect to the
                                                          values of the
                                                          Bohr ground
                                                          state orbit
                                                          energy
                                                          parameters.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="color:black">Heisenberg
                                                          did the same,
                                                          except that he
                                                          formulated the
                                                          relation so
                                                          that it could
                                                          account for a
                                                          precision
                                                          drift of the
                                                          chosen
                                                          velocity on
                                                          either side of
                                                          the selected
                                                          velocity value
                                                          about the
                                                          ground orbit
                                                          of the Bohr
                                                          atom.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="color:black">In
                                                          1923, he
                                                          himself
                                                          expressed his
                                                          uncertainty
                                                          principle as
                                                          delta_x
                                                          delta_p
                                                          equal-or-larger-than
                                                          h, which is
                                                          the same as
                                                          delta_x
                                                          approx_equal
                                                          to h / (m
                                                          delta_v_x),
                                                          which is
                                                          fundamentally
                                                          de Broglie's
                                                          single valued
                                                          h/mv for the
                                                          Bohr ground
                                                          state orbit.</span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">This
                                                          is at the
                                                          origin of
                                                          Heisenberg's
                                                          statistical
                                                          solution.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Best
                                                          Regards ---<br>
                                                          André Michaud<br>
                                                          GSJournal
                                                          admin</span><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">On
                                                          Thu, 23 Nov
                                                          2017 03:17:31
                                                          +0000, John
                                                          Williamson
                                                          wrote:</span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Dear
                                                          Albrecht,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Your error is
                                                          more
                                                          fundamental
                                                          than you know.
                                                          See below in
                                                          green.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center">
                                                          <hr size="2"
                                                          align="center"
                                                          width="100%"></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785divRpF178154">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">General
                                                          [</span><a
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">general-bounces+john.<wbr>williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@<wbr>lists.<wbr>natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">]
                                                          on behalf of
                                                          Viv Robinson [</span><a
href="mailto:viv@universephysics.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple">viv@universephysics.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">]<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>Wednesday,
                                                          November 22,
                                                          2017 10:49 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>Albrecht
                                                          Giese; Nature
                                                          of Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>Re:
                                                          [General]
                                                          Compton and de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          wavelengththe
                                                          "error"</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Dear
                                                          Albrecht,</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">IMHO
                                                          you have a
                                                          fundamental
                                                          flaw in your
                                                          first
                                                          paragraph
                                                          below. A
                                                          single
                                                          electron
                                                          cannot
                                                          generate an
                                                          interference
                                                          pattern, any
                                                          more than can
                                                          a single
                                                          photon. An
                                                          observer
                                                          moving with a
                                                          single
                                                          electron will,
                                                          if the screen
                                                          is angled
                                                          towards him,
                                                          see only a
                                                          single spot
                                                          where the
                                                          electron
                                                          impinged upon
                                                          that screen.
                                                          That is all.
                                                          If he repeats
                                                          that
                                                          observation
                                                          say 10,000
                                                          times he will
                                                          still only see
                                                          on spot each
                                                          time the
                                                          electron
                                                          impinges upon
                                                          the screen. If
                                                          the spots are
                                                          recorded, each
                                                          time he
                                                          travels with
                                                          another
                                                          electron he
                                                          will see an
                                                          interference
                                                          image slowly
                                                          appear because
                                                          it is
                                                          dependent upon
                                                          the frame of
                                                          reference of
                                                          the slit and
                                                          screen. The
                                                          motion of the
                                                          observer does
                                                          not interfere
                                                          with that
                                                          pattern.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Sincerely</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_customfont">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Vivian
                                                          Robinson</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          id="m_-7043474106834704785bloop_sign_1511389963683457792">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">On 23 November 2017 at 8:24:21 AM, Albrecht Giese (</span><a
href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">phys@a-giese.de</span></a><span style="color:black">)
                                                          wrote:</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Dear André,</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">the "error" which I see for de Broglie is his
                                                          assumed
                                                          relation
                                                          lambda = h /
                                                          momentum .</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:green">Your error, and this is an error not an "error" is
                                                          that you
                                                          assume that de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          "assumed
                                                          lambda = h /
                                                          momentum.
                                                          Louis de
                                                          Broglie did
                                                          not assume
                                                          lambda = h /
                                                          momentum - he
                                                          derived it.
                                                          From
                                                          relativity.
                                                          Please do not
                                                          assume what
                                                          you think
                                                          other people
                                                          assume.
                                                          Remember, de
                                                          Broglie was
                                                          very smart,
                                                          and this
                                                          relation had
                                                          to come from
                                                          somewhere, no?
                                                          It would be
                                                          instructive
                                                          for you to
                                                          understand the
                                                          how and why he
                                                          did this
                                                          before making
                                                          uninformed
                                                          comments on
                                                          it.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">This relation fails at any linear transformation.
                                                          Take as an
                                                          example the
                                                          scattering of
                                                          electrons at a
                                                          multi-slit. If
                                                          you look at it
                                                          from the rest
                                                          frame of the
                                                          multi-slit
                                                          then de
                                                          Broglie's
                                                          wavelength
                                                          describes
                                                          correctly the
                                                          generated
                                                          interference
                                                          pattern.
                                                          However, if
                                                          this situation
                                                          is observed by
                                                          someone moving
                                                          at the side of
                                                          the electron
                                                          the result is
                                                          completely
                                                          wrong. Assume
                                                          as an extreme
                                                          situation that
                                                          the observer
                                                          moves together
                                                          with the
                                                          electron. Then
                                                          in the frame
                                                          of the
                                                          observer the
                                                          electron has
                                                          the momentum =
                                                          0 and so the
                                                          wavelength is
                                                          infinite. This
                                                          means: no
                                                          interference!
                                                          But the
                                                          pattern does
                                                          of course not
                                                          disappear and
                                                          will be
                                                          visible to the
                                                          observer. This
                                                          shows that de
                                                          Broglie does
                                                          not even
                                                          fulfil
                                                          Galileo's
                                                          physical rule
                                                          of relativity
                                                          believed and
                                                          proven since
                                                          600 years.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Regarding the particle mass: My equation is simple:
                                                          m = h(bar) /
                                                          (c*R) , where
                                                          R is the
                                                          radius of the
                                                          particle. And
                                                          R can be
                                                          easily
                                                          determined by
                                                          use of the
                                                          known magnetic
                                                          momentum of
                                                          the particle.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">The mag. momentum of a circling elementary charge is
                                                          classically:
                                                          mm = (1/2)*c*e<sub>0</sub>*R</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">The mag. moment of particles is known. So, R can be
                                                          determined.
                                                          This R
                                                          inserted into
                                                          the equation
                                                          above yields
                                                          the particle
                                                          mass with an
                                                          accuracy of
                                                          about 10<sup>-3</sup>.
                                                          - This is now
                                                          based only on
                                                          the strong
                                                          force. If the
                                                          result is
                                                          corrected by
                                                          the influence
                                                          of the
                                                          electrical
                                                          charge, this
                                                          yields the
                                                          Landé factor
                                                          in case of the
                                                          electron. This
                                                          applied yields
                                                          the mass with
                                                          an accuracy of
                                                          2*10<sup>-6</sup>.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">References for this are:</span><a
                                                          href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</span></a><span
style="color:black">an<wbr>d</span><a
                                                          href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">www.ag-physics.org/electron</span></a><span
style="color:black">.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black">Hope this explains it. Otherwise please ask.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Albrecht</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-18%2022:54:00%20AEST"
                                                          target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:purple">Am 18.11.2017 um 22:54</span></a><span
style="color:black">schrieb André Michaud:</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">Dear
                                                          Albrecht,</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">I
                                                          must say that
                                                          I don't see as
                                                          "errors"
                                                          conclusions
                                                          that were
                                                          drawn before
                                                          more precise
                                                          knowledge was
                                                          discovered.
                                                          For example, I
                                                          don't think
                                                          that Newton
                                                          made an
                                                          "error" by not
                                                          immediately
                                                          concluding to
                                                          the
                                                          possibility
                                                          the fixed
                                                          velocity of
                                                          light. He
                                                          simply did not
                                                          know about it
                                                          because this
                                                          had not yet
                                                          been
                                                          discovered.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">The
                                                          same for de
                                                          Broglie in my
                                                          opinion, he
                                                          worked with
                                                          the knowledge
                                                          available a
                                                          the time.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">As
                                                          i understand
                                                          it, what we
                                                          call the de
                                                          Broglie wave
                                                          is simply a
                                                          representation
                                                          of the sum of
                                                          the energies
                                                          of the rest
                                                          mass of the
                                                          electron plus
                                                          the
                                                          translational
                                                          energy related
                                                          to its
                                                          momentum. How
                                                          can this be
                                                          wrong at the
                                                          general level,
                                                          unless I
                                                          misunderstand
                                                          the whole
                                                          concept?</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                          lang="EN-CA">As
                                                          for Hönl and
                                                          the mass of
                                                          the electron,
                                                          I was meaning
                                                          this
                                                          rhetorically.
                                                          I simply mean
                                                          that any
                                                          solution that
                                                          exactly
                                                          provides the
                                                          exact mass of
                                                          the electron
                                                          as
                                                          experimentally
                                                          measured by
                                                          numerous means
                                                          can only be a
                                                          proper
                                                          description,
                                                          so your
                                                          description
                                                          has to be
                                                          correct. The
                                                          exact mass of
                                                          the electron
                                                          has been
                                                          experimentally
                                                          confirmed for
                                                          over 1
                                                          century. I do
                                                          not know where
                                                          to look to
                                                          examine your
                                                          solution. Can
                                                          you provide a
                                                          link?</span></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">---<br>
                                                          André Michaud<br>
                                                          GSJournal
                                                          admin</span><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a
                                                          href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-19%2006:56:34%20AEST"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><i><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple">On
                                                          Sat, 18 Nov
                                                          2017 21:56:34
                                                          +0100</span></i></a><i><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">, Albrecht
                                                          Giese wrote:</span></i></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dear André,</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">there is no
                                                          doubt that de
                                                          Broglie has
                                                          made great
                                                          contributions
                                                          to the
                                                          development of
                                                          physics. So,
                                                          if there is an
                                                          anniversary in
                                                          honour of him
                                                          and even the
                                                          Nobel price,
                                                          then as many
                                                          as possible of
                                                          his
                                                          achievements
                                                          are of course
                                                          presented.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">My concern,
                                                          however,
                                                          refers to a
                                                          specific
                                                          result of his
                                                          early
                                                          activities.
                                                          The assumed
                                                          necessity to
                                                          introduce the
                                                          "harmony of
                                                          waves" and to
                                                          deduce the "de
                                                          Broglie"
                                                          wavelength are
                                                          based on a
                                                          logical error
                                                          and on a
                                                          misunderstanding
                                                          of SR.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">It is a
                                                          quite funny
                                                          situation that
                                                          in spite of
                                                          this error his
                                                          result seems
                                                          usable to
                                                          explain
                                                          certain
                                                          physical
                                                          processes. It
                                                          is one goal of
                                                          my physical
                                                          activities to
                                                          understand
                                                          this. In one
                                                          fundamental
                                                          case I have
                                                          found an
                                                          explanation.
                                                          That is the
                                                          scattering of
                                                          electrons at a
                                                          double /
                                                          multiple slit.
                                                          If such
                                                          experiment is
                                                          viewed from a
                                                          specific
                                                          inertial frame
                                                          (the one
                                                          normally
                                                          used), de
                                                          Brolgie's
                                                          calculation
                                                          conforms to
                                                          the
                                                          measurement.
                                                          However in any
                                                          other frame it
                                                          fails. - I can
                                                          explain why
                                                          the de Broglie
                                                          wave seems to
                                                          work even
                                                          though it is
                                                          erroneous.
                                                          (Not here but
                                                          I can give you
                                                          a reference if
                                                          you want it.)</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regarding
                                                          Hönl I do not
                                                          understand
                                                          what you say.
                                                          Hönl did NOT
                                                          get a correct
                                                          mass by
                                                          assuming only
                                                          the electrical
                                                          force in the
                                                          electron. He
                                                          was wrong by a
                                                          factor of
                                                          about 300 as I
                                                          wrote earlier.
                                                          But the
                                                          calculation
                                                          which I did is
                                                          correct with
                                                          high precision
                                                          and the
                                                          formula does
                                                          not have any
                                                          free
                                                          parameters,
                                                          only the
                                                          standard ones.
                                                          I do not know
                                                          any other
                                                          model which
                                                          has this. Do
                                                          you? Then
                                                          please give me
                                                          a reference.</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Best
                                                          regards<br>
                                                          Albrecht</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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                                                          <div
                                                          class="h5">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
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