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<p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>my short response to this mail which I have detected a bit lately
(returning from a trip).<br>
</p>
<p>Of course I have NOT derived the de Broglie wavelength. Because,
as I wrote, in my understanding the definition of this wavelength
is heavily erroneous. Two point which we have discussed earlier: <br>
</p>
<p>- The de Broglie wavelength depends on the momentum: lambda_dB
= h/p. For an observer in the frame of the particle there is p=0
and so lambda=infinite. That means: no interference possible. But
the interference does not disappear, as well not for the co-moving
observer<br>
- The deduction of this wavelength by de Broglie is based on a
misunderstood dilation process. The internal clock in a particle
is truly slowed down in motion, but the corresponding wave of the
particle in increased by the Doppler effect if it meets another
particle. So the other particle sees an increased frequency
compared to the particle at rest. That was overlooked by de
Broglie.</p>
<p>Regarding the papers below, I have first looked into the 2nd one,
from Vivian Robinson. The equation in section 9, p. 13 says: <br>
</p>
<p><span class="a"
style="left:2556px;top:2813px;word-spacing:5px;color:#231f20">"The
kinetic energy component of the electro</span><span class="a"
style="left:4263px;top:2825px;color:#231f20">-</span><span
class="a"
style="left:2362px;top:2931px;word-spacing:-1px;color:#231f20">magnetic
field, pc, is given by</span><span class="a"
style="left:2825px;top:3093px;word-spacing:-1px;color:#231f20">
E sin</span><span class="a"
style="left:3009px;top:3100px;color:#231f20">θ</span><span
class="a" style="left:3057px;top:3093px;color:#231f20"></span><span
class="a" style="left:3080px;top:3100px;color:#231f20">=</span><span
class="a" style="left:3129px;top:3093px;color:#231f20"> hf</span><sub><span
class="a" style="left:3228px;top:3155px;color:#231f20">v</span></sub><span
class="a" style="left:3254px;top:3093px;color:#231f20">sin</span><span
class="a" style="left:3361px;top:3100px;color:#231f20">θ</span><span
class="a" style="left:3408px;top:3093px;color:#231f20"></span><span
class="a" style="left:3431px;top:3100px;color:#231f20">=</span><span
class="a" style="left:3481px;top:3093px;color:#231f20"> pc</span><span
class="a" style="left:3612px;top:3100px;color:#231f20">=</span><span
class="a" style="left:3662px;top:3093px;color:#231f20"> hf</span><sub><span
class="a" style="left:3760px;top:3155px;color:#231f20">KE </span></sub><span
class="a" style="left:3760px;top:3155px;color:#231f20">"</span><sub><span
class="a" style="left:3760px;top:3155px;color:#231f20">.</span></sub></p>
<p>This equation is not correct. E=pc is not true, so the deduction
of the de Broglie wavelength using this is not correct.</p>
<p>Then I have looked into the 3rd one, from yourself. You have a
correct deduction (as far as I could see) of the de Broglie
wavelength for the photon. That is not a problem because for a
photon also the deduction of de Broglie applicable. But only for a
photon which has no rest mass and moves permanently with c. Then
you apply this result to the electron. That is not correct by my
understanding as the electron does have a rest mass and moves with
speed < c. <br>
</p>
<p>I did not have looked into the paper of <font size="+2"> <span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(34,
34, 34); font-weight: normal;" class="">J.G. Williamson and
M.B. van der Mark </span></font> this time. But I did that
some months ago, and as far as I remember, the deduction follows
from the particle model presented there. I did not follow that
model in detail. But for the result applies, what I have written
above: the result of de Broglie is erroneous as it is not Lorentz
invariant and not even Galileo invariant.<br>
</p>
<p>So, that is at least how I understand the papers.<br>
</p>
<p>Albrecht<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 27.11.2017 um 20:25 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:
Helvetica" class="">Hello John, Martin, Vivian, Chip, </span><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial" class="">André,
Grahame, Albrecht, Ray</span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica"
class=""> and all, <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:
Helvetica" class="">Three of our members, that I know of,
have derived the de Broglie
wavelength in different ways from our
double-looping-photon-like-object
electron models having spin-1/2: John (and Martin), Vivian
and myself. I don’t
know if Grahame, </span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial" class="">André, Chip or Albrecht have derived the de
Broglie wavelength from
their electron models (and if so, where), but I would like
to know.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<h3 style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11px;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
normal;" class="">The three de Broglie wavelength
derivations from the above electron models are
at:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></h3>
<h3 style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11px;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
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<h3 style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11px;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
normal;" class="">1</span><span style="font-size: 13px;
font-family: Helvetica;" class="">. </span><span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; color:
rgb(34, 34, 34); font-weight: normal;" class="">Is
the electron a photon with toroidal topology?”, J.G.
Williamson and M.B. van der Mark, </span><span
style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
normal;" class=""><a
href="http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf</a>,
section 6, pp15-16.</span><span style="font-size: 14px;
font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-weight:
normal;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal">2 <span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
background-color: rgb(241, 241, 241);" class="">“A Proposal
on the Structure and
Properties of an Electron”, VNE Robinson, </span><a
href="https://www.academia.edu/10819172/A_Proposal_on_the_Structure_and_Properties_of_an_Electron"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.academia.edu/10819172/A_Proposal_on_the_Structure_and_Properties_of_an_Electron</a>
, section 9, p.13</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman"" class="">3. <span
style="color:#333333;background:#F1F1F1" class="">“Electrons
are spin 1/2 charged
photons generating the de Broglie wavelength”, Richard
Gauthier, </span></span><a
href="https://www.academia.edu/15686831/Electrons_are_spin_1_2_charged_photons_generating_the_de_Broglie_wavelength"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.academia.edu/15686831/Electrons_are_spin_1_2_charged_photons_generating_the_de_Broglie_wavelength</a>,
section 11, pp 9-11. What I call “charged photons” in my
article I am now
calling “charged half-photons”, but this does not affect the
derivation.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica"
class="">Since we are focusing on
the validity of the de Broglie wavelength relation in this
email thread, I
would like to know if anyone, besides myself, sees any
serious error in any of the
three de Broglie wavelength derivations above. If there is
an error in the
derivation in my electron model, I would certainly like to
know what it is,
and I think that the others feel the same about theirs.
Thanks!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<!--StartFragment-->
<!--EndFragment--></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica"
class=""><span style="mso-spacerun:yes" class=""> </span>Richard</span><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<!--EndFragment--></div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:41 PM, André Michaud <<a
href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">srp2@srpinc.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="userStyles" style="font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12pt;">Hello Chip,<br class="">
<br class="">
You touch an important point by highlighting that at α*<i
class="">c</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>velocity,
would-be dilation or contraction tiny at these velocities,
since it lies in the very low relativistic velocity range.<br
class="">
<br class="">
A note however regarding motion at such velocity on a
"trajectory" about the nucleus of the hydrogen atom,
Heisenberg concluded that the electron did not have to
translate at any velocity to remain captive on the ground
state orbital. From my analysis from the trispatial
perspective, I tend to agree with him. Considering how
both electrons have to remain by structure midway between
the two protons in a hydrogen molecule for their covalent
bounding to be logically explainable, this seems to be
factual from my perspective.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best Regards
<footer class="signatureDivContainer">
<footer class="signatureContainer" style="display:
inline;">---<br class="">
André Michaud<br class="">
GSJournal admin<br class="">
<a href="http://www.gsjournal.net/" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gsjournal.net/</a><br
class="">
<a href="http://www.srpinc.org/" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.srpinc.org/</a></footer>
</footer>
<footer class="replyforwardcontainer"><br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:13:54 -0600, "Chip
Akins"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><chipakins@gmail.com
class="">wrote:</chipakins@gmail.com></span><br
class="">
<br class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
Albrecht and Andre<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">First,
Albrecht, I agree that the de Broglie wave, as
envisioned by de Broglie, leaves much unexplained,
and may well be simply wrong, even though it sort of
fits partial mathematical descriptions which seem to
be shedding some light on the atomic orbitals in a
narrow set of circumstances. This failure of the de
Broglie hypothesis to work in all circumstances is a
part of the reason I started looking into this
subject more. The de Broglie wave also seems to fit
double slit experiments, but does not really offer a
foundation of physical cause. It just seems to work
that way without really disclosing the physical
reasons for the de Broglie wave itself. So I think
we should look for a better foundation, a causal and
concrete explanation, instead of building elaborate
theoretical structure on speculation which still
remains unexplained. So, yes, there are occasions
where the speculation of de Broglie can be applied,
and we get the right numbers, but that does not mean
the theory is correct and we should stop looking for
the actual answers.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Andre
is onto something when he looks for a relationship
between the fields of the proton and the fields of
the electron to sort out these issues of the
quantization of orbitals. However I will have to do
some more math to see if the magnetic field
relationships can actually be the answer. At this
point, prior to doing the requisite math, I think
there is also the possibility that certain dynamics
of the electric fields created by the proton and
electron will explain the quantization of orbitals.
But this is premature speculation. And is sort of a
moot point because the dynamics of electric fields
are the cause of magnetic fields.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">There
exists a beat frequency which is ¼ the de Broglie
wavelength, and this beat frequency is a natural
condition of the electron in the significantly
sub-light speed orbital (example: a mean circular
path at α*<i class="">c</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>velocity),
so it requires no speculation about dilation or
contraction (which are tiny at these velocities).<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So
I think you are both quite correct to look into
these issues. We have a lot to gain by reexamining
our theoretical basis.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Chip<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Albrecht
Giese<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
November 24, 2017 4:25 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe
"error"<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
André, Chip, and all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">if
we discuss de Broglie's concept of a particle wave,
we should in my view refer to his original work and
not to others who have used the results (well
understood or misunderstood) in other applications.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So,
de Broglie in original:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">It is of course correct that
de Broglie did not just “assume” his wave but he
has deduced it from considerations about
relativity. But his deduction is based on a severe
error as I have explained in detail earlier. So,
let’s do it again.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">De Broglie has seen a
logical conflict between the Einstein- Planck
relation (1) E=h*frequency and (2) relativistic
dilation; because according to (1) the frequency
has to increase at motion and according to (2)
dilation will cause the frequency to decrease. But
his concern is an error as this conflict does not
exist. Because we have to look at an interaction
of particles, which is the relevant situation. Any
interaction sees frequencies which are increased
by the Doppler effect. And the Doppler effect
gives an over-compensation of the normal
relativistic slow down so that both frequencies
above will fit on their own. The same result is
achieved if the temporal Lorentz transformation is
properly applied. - For de Broglie's new wave no
justification exists at all.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">The comment of two of you
that a single electron does not produce an
interference pattern is of course correct. One
electron only produces one dot on the screen. But
if we assume that a bunch of electron flies to the
multi-slit with same speed then the argument
works. There will be an interference pattern
behind the multi-slit. But if we transform the
experiment into the frame of the electrons then
the momentum of the electrons is zero, and so the
wavelength is infinite, and seen from that frame
no interference pattern can occur. But it does
occur, also visible for a co-moving observer, and
that shows that de Broglie's idea is erroneous. -
I have shown in calculations (but not in this
place) why under certain circumstances the
impression occurs that de Broglie is correct. But
in general it is wrong. De Broglie's approach
violates Galileo's relativity as well as
Lorentzian relativity.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">You have mentioned the good
results of the use of the de Broglie wave to
determine the quantization of atomic orbits. It is
true that it works, but it has a similar problem
like for the scattering of electrons. Assume a
hydrogen atom moving into axial direction with a
similar speed as the speed of the electrons in the
orbits. Then the resulting momentum of the
orbiting electrons increases by about 40% seen
from the frame at rest. So the de Broglie
wavelength has to decrease by this factor and the
energy of these states has to change accordingly.
But in practice there will be a much smaller
energy change. So also in this case de Broglie
fails at a more thorough look.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">In the mails there have been
some considerations about what de Broglie did
"have in mind". But what he had in mind he has
written in his PhD thesis. Anything about the
energy states of atoms came later and by others
(like Schrödinger and Bohr).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">Now I will be wondering
about objecting arguments.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">Albrecht</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br
class="">
<span class="" lang="EN-GB">I thank you for your
answers and arguments. I will now answer to it, of
course. Which means to repeat my arguments of the
last three weeks here where I have given argument
which seem to have been overlooked.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Am 24.11.2017 um 01:20 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Hi John,<span style="font-family: Arial,
sans-serif;" class="">André, Chip and all,</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Deriving the de Broglie wavelength of
an electron model without superluminal motion is
easy (in hindsight, since de Broglie did it
using special relativity.) But try getting,
without superluminal motion, the spin-1 of a
non-pointlike photon model (for a
photon-in-a-box or otherwise) AND the spin-1/2
of a highly relativistic non-pointlike electron
model. In either case there will be some
longitudinal momentum Plong, at light speed for
a photon model and at very near light speed for
a highly relativistic electron model, as well as
some significant locally transverse linear
momentum Ptrans (even if the net transverse
linear momentum of the photon model is zero as
in the double-helix photon model) that generates
spin Sz = R x Ptrans = 1 hbar for a photon model
or 1/2 hbar for a highly relativistic electron
model . A longitudinal light-speed or
near-light-speed linear momentum vector plus a
significant local transverse linear momentum
vector gives a diagonal local linear momentum
vector with a corresponding diagonal velocity
vector whose magnitude is greater than c.
Putting a photon model’s or electron model's
transverse oscillatory motion, that generates
its spin, into two different transverse
dimensional spaces is ingenious, but if the
photon is to move along longitudinally as a
whole and not leave the two transverse
dimensional spaces behind, I think there will
still be some diagonal superluminal motion. I
would be happy to see a proved counterexample.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">On Nov 23, 2017,
at 12:19 PM, John Williamson <<a
href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Hi
Richard and everyone,<br class="">
<br class="">
You do not need to add anything.
"Superluminal" is not needed. If you
consider light-in-a-box (including
light in a box of its own making)
the de Broglie wavelength follows
from the beat frequencies of the
proper relativistic transformations
of the light going with the motion
and that going against. Remeber, one
needs to consider BOTH the Doppler
shift AND the SR transformations.
Then everything works. Martin is
writing a definitive paper on this.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Regards,
John.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; text-align: center;"
align="center">
<hr class="" size="2" align="center"
width="100%"></div>
<div id="divRpF210496" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class="">General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>Thursday,
November 23, 2017 6:36 PM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><a
href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">srp2@srpinc.org</a>;
Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>Re:
[General] Compton and de Broglie
wavelengththe "error"</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">Hello André,
Chip, John and all,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<h4 style="margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; font-weight:
bold; margin-bottom: 9pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-weight: normal;"
class="">I also think that
there is “an additional
factor” that settles an
electron into an atomic
resonant state. In my view the
electron is composed of this
additional factor, a charged
superluminal energy quantum
that circulates and generates
quantum waves having the de
Broglie wavelength. These
quantum waves self-resonate in
regions around an atomic
nucleus. When an available
resonant region around an
atomic nucleus is found, the
superluminal energy quantum
settles into this region and
continues to emit quantum
waves that for some period of
time maintain it in this
resonance state in the atom.
The electron is more likely to
be detected wherever the
amplitude of this resonant
state (the electron’s
eigenfunction for this state)
is larger.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></h4>
<h4 style="margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; font-weight:
bold; margin-bottom: 9pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-weight: normal;"
class="">This idea is not
fully developed but is hinted
at in “</span><span
style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35);
font-weight: normal;" class="">Transluminal
Energy Quantum Model of a
Spin-½ Charged Photon
Composing an Electron”,</span><span
style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35);
background-color: white;
font-weight: normal;
background-position: initial
initial; background-repeat:
initial initial;" class="">“Electrons
Are Spin</span><span
style="color: rgb(35, 35, 35);
font-weight: normal;" class="">-½<span
style="background-color:
white; background-position:
initial initial;
background-repeat: initial
initial;" class="">Charged
Photons Generating the de
Broglie Wavelength”,</span></span><span
style="font-weight: normal;"
class="">“</span><span
style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26);
font-weight: normal;" class="">The
Charged-Photon Model of the
Electron Fits the Schrödinger
Equation</span><span
style="font-weight: normal;"
class="">”and “</span><span
style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26);
font-weight: normal;" class="">The
Charged-Photon Model of the
Electron, the de Broglie
Wavelength, and a New
Interpretation of Quantum
Mechanics" at<a
href="https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research%23papers"
target="_blank"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://richardgauthier.academia.edu/research#papers</a>.
What I called a charged photon
in theses articles I am now
calling a charged half-photon.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></h4>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="color: rgb(26, 26,
26);" class="">Richard</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top:
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"
class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in
0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">On Nov
23, 2017, at 8:52 AM,
André Michaud <<a
href="mailto:srp2@srpinc.org"
target="_blank"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">srp2@srpinc.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">Hi
Chip, and all<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">You
write: "<i class=""><span
style="font-size:
11pt; font-family:
Calibri,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-CA">I
prefer the second
option, there is
some additional
factor interacting
with the electron,
to cause these
quantized
orbitals, and
understand from
Andre’s writings
that he feels the
same way.</span></i>"<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">You
are exactly right
about what I think. I
came to the same
conclusion as yourself
(the second option)
way back in fact when
I finally lighted up
to the fact that the
wave function
originally was related
to electrons orbitals
by Schrödinger because
he was inspired in
this direction by a
conclusion of de
Broglie that electrons
had to be captive in
some form of resonance
state about nuclei.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">I
think that this was
sort of lost sight of
in the community due
to the acrimonious
debate that raged on
afterwards between the
proponents of the
Copenhagen school and
the determinists,
which indeed was
fundamentally whether
the first or second
option applied in
physical reality.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">After
I came to the second
option conclusion, I
started to look around
for descriptions of
this resonance state
that could be related
to the wave function
but found nothing, as
if the only option
that had been explored
was the first one,
with which the
Heisenberg solution
was in harmony and
also later Feynman's
path integral.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">To
me, the idea of
"resonance" always
made me think of a
vibrating guitar
string, whose shape
and extent of the
volume visited by the
transversally
oscillating string can
be described by the
wave function.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">I
suspected that this
might have been what
de Broglie had in mind
also, and became
convinced that the
electron could remain
localized while being
captive within the
theoretical volume
defined by the wave
function, on an axial
resonance trajectory
(sort of stochastic
maybe to some extent)
that may be
describable
mathematically and
that could be due to
electric versus
magnetic interaction
between the electron
and the nuclei.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">I
see that you lean in a
similar direction
Chip. I have explored
the possible electric
vs magnetic potential
explanation to a large
extent, but I am at a
loss as to how to
exactly mathematize
the localized
resonance trajectory
proper within the
volume definable by
the wave function. You
seem to be better
equipped
mathematically than me
to address such an
issue, with your¼ de
Broglie
wavelengthexploration.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">For
a general overview of
how the trispatial
geometry allows
defining this type of
electromagnetic
electron equilibrium
states involving both
electric and magnetic
aspects of energy,
here is my final paper
on the whole concept:<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><a
href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf"
target="_blank"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">Even
though it involves an
entirely new paradigm
that may feel very
unfamiliar at first, I
hope it nevertheless
makes some sense to
you.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
10pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;">Best
Regards<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in
12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family:
Arial, sans-serif;"
class="">---<br
class="">
André Michaud<br
class="">
GSJournal admin<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br
class="">
<br class="">
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017
05:16:52 -0600,
"Chip Akins"wrote:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">Hi
All<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">But
in all this,
regarding de
Broglie’s
wavelength and the
electron orbitals,
there is still
something missing.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">Either
we have to assume
that the electron
occupies the
entire
circumference of
the orbital
simultaneously by
its wavefunction,
or there is some
additional factor
interacting with
the electron, to
cause these
quantized
orbitals.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">I
prefer the second
option, there is
some additional
factor interacting
with the electron,
to cause these
quantized
orbitals, and
understand from
Andre’s writings
that he feels the
same way.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">In
the hydrogen atom
there is a simple,
naturally
occurring cause,
for a “matter
wave” which is
exactly ¼ the de
Broglie
wavelength. This
“matter wave” is a
beat frequency
created by the
perceived
frequency
difference with
motion, of the
outer radius and
inner radius of
the electron as it
circulates about
the proton. I
found this to be
interesting, and
wanted to share
this observation.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">Chip<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="border-style:
solid none none;
border-top-width:
1pt; padding: 3pt
0in 0in;
border-top-color:
rgb(225, 225,
225);" class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">General
[<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<b
class="">On
Behalf Of</b>André
Michaud<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>Wednesday,
November 22,
2017 10:52 PM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>Re:
[General]
Compton and de
Broglie
wavelengththe
"error"</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Arial,
sans-serif;"
class="">Hello
John,</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;"
class="">You are
absolutely
right.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;"
class=""><br
class="">
In fact de
Broglie derived
this relation
with respect to
the values of
the Bohr ground
state orbit
energy
parameters.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;"
class=""><br
class="">
Heisenberg did
the same, except
that he
formulated the
relation so that
it could account
for a precision
drift of the
chosen velocity
on either side
of the selected
velocity value
about the ground
orbit of the
Bohr atom.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;"
class=""><br
class="">
In 1923, he
himself
expressed his
uncertainty
principle as
delta_x delta_p
equal-or-larger-than h, which is the same as delta_x approx_equal to h /
(m delta_v_x),
which is
fundamentally de
Broglie's single
valued h/mv for
the Bohr ground
state orbit.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
style="font-family:
Arial,
sans-serif;"
class="">This
is at the
origin of
Heisenberg's
statistical
solution.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in
0in 12pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;"><br
class="">
<span
style="font-family:
Arial,
sans-serif;"
class="">Best
Regards ---<br
class="">
André Michaud<br
class="">
GSJournal admin<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br
class="">
<br class="">
On Thu, 23 Nov
2017 03:17:31
+0000, John
Williamson
wrote:</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Dear
Albrecht,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Your error is
more
fundamental
than you know.
See below in
green.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
text-align:
center;"
align="center">
<hr class=""
size="2"
align="center"
width="100%"></div>
<div
id="divRpF178154"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">General
[<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of
Viv Robinson [<a
href="mailto:viv@universephysics.com" target="_blank" style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">viv@universephysics.com</span></a>]<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>Wednesday,
November 22,
2017 10:49 PM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b>Albrecht
Giese; Nature
of Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>Re:
[General]
Compton and de
Broglie
wavelengththe
"error"</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
id="bloop_customfont"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Dear
Albrecht,</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="bloop_customfont"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">IMHO
you have a
fundamental
flaw in your
first
paragraph
below. A
single
electron
cannot
generate an
interference
pattern, any
more than can
a single
photon. An
observer
moving with a
single
electron will,
if the screen
is angled
towards him,
see only a
single spot
where the
electron
impinged upon
that screen.
That is all.
If he repeats
that
observation
say 10,000
times he will
still only see
on spot each
time the
electron
impinges upon
the screen. If
the spots are
recorded, each
time he
travels with
another
electron he
will see an
interference
image slowly
appear because
it is
dependent upon
the frame of
reference of
the slit and
screen. The
motion of the
observer does
not interfere
with that
pattern.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="bloop_customfont"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Sincerely</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="bloop_customfont"
class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Vivian
Robinson</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">On 23
November 2017
at 8:24:21 AM,
Albrecht Giese
(<a
href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">phys@a-giese.de</span></a>)
wrote:<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">Dear
André,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">the
"error" which
I see for de
Broglie is his
assumed
relation
lambda = h /
momentum .<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="color:
green;"
class="">Your
error, and
this is an
error not an
"error" is
that you
assume that de
Broglie
"assumed
lambda = h /
momentum.
Louis de
Broglie did
not assume
lambda = h /
momentum - he
derived it.
From
relativity.
Please do not
assume what
you think
other people
assume.
Remember, de
Broglie was
very smart,
and this
relation had
to come from
somewhere, no?
It would be
instructive
for you to
understand the
how and why he
did this
before making
uninformed
comments on
it.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">This
relation fails
at any linear
transformation. Take as an example the scattering of electrons at a
multi-slit. If
you look at it
from the rest
frame of the
multi-slit
then de
Broglie's
wavelength
describes
correctly the
generated
interference
pattern.
However, if
this situation
is observed by
someone moving
at the side of
the electron
the result is
completely
wrong. Assume
as an extreme
situation that
the observer
moves together
with the
electron. Then
in the frame
of the
observer the
electron has
the momentum =
0 and so the
wavelength is
infinite. This
means: no
interference!
But the
pattern does
of course not
disappear and
will be
visible to the
observer. This
shows that de
Broglie does
not even
fulfil
Galileo's
physical rule
of relativity
believed and
proven since
600 years.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">Regarding
the particle
mass: My
equation is
simple: m =
h(bar) / (c*R)
, where R is
the radius of
the particle.
And R can be
easily
determined by
use of the
known magnetic
momentum of
the particle.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">The
mag. momentum
of a circling
elementary
charge is
classically:
mm = (1/2)*c*e<sub
class="">0</sub>*R<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">The
mag. moment of
particles is
known. So, R
can be
determined.
This R
inserted into
the equation
above yields
the particle
mass with an
accuracy of
about 10<sup
class="">-3</sup>.
- This is now
based only on
the strong
force. If the
result is
corrected by
the influence
of the
electrical
charge, this
yields the
Landé factor
in case of the
electron. This
applied yields
the mass with
an accuracy of
2*10<sup
class="">-6</sup>.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">References
for this are:<a
href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass" target="_blank" style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</span></a>and<a
href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron" target="_blank" style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">www.ag-physics.org/electron</span></a>.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class="">Hope
this explains
it. Otherwise
please ask.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Albrecht<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><a
href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-18%2022:54:00%20AEST"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">Am
18.11.2017 um
22:54</span></a>schrieb
André Michaud:<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in 10pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="EN-CA">Dear
Albrecht,</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in 10pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="EN-CA">I must
say that I
don't see as
"errors"
conclusions
that were
drawn before
more precise
knowledge was
discovered.
For example, I
don't think
that Newton
made an
"error" by not
immediately
concluding to
the
possibility
the fixed
velocity of
light. He
simply did not
know about it
because this
had not yet
been
discovered.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in 10pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="EN-CA">The same
for de Broglie
in my opinion,
he worked with
the knowledge
available a
the time.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in 10pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="EN-CA">As i
understand it,
what we call
the de Broglie
wave is simply
a
representation
of the sum of
the energies
of the rest
mass of the
electron plus
the
translational
energy related
to its
momentum. How
can this be
wrong at the
general level,
unless I
misunderstand
the whole
concept?</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:
0in 0in 10pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="" lang="EN-CA">As for
Hönl and the
mass of the
electron, I
was meaning
this
rhetorically.
I simply mean
that any
solution that
exactly
provides the
exact mass of
the electron
as
experimentally
measured by
numerous means
can only be a
proper
description,
so your
description
has to be
correct. The
exact mass of
the electron
has been
experimentally
confirmed for
over 1
century. I do
not know where
to look to
examine your
solution. Can
you provide a
link?</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">---<br class="">
André Michaud<br
class="">
GSJournal
admin<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.gsjournal.net/"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.gsjournal.net/</span></a><br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.srpinc.org/"
target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">http://www.srpinc.org/</span></a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<i class=""><a
href="http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-19%2006:56:34%20AEST"
target="_blank"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:
purple;"
class="">On
Sat, 18 Nov
2017 21:56:34
+0100</span></a>,
Albrecht Giese
wrote:</i></span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Dear André,</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">there is no doubt that
de Broglie has
made great
contributions
to the
development of
physics. So,
if there is an
anniversary in
honour of him
and even the
Nobel price,
then as many
as possible of
his
achievements
are of course
presented.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">My concern, however,
refers to a
specific
result of his
early
activities.
The assumed
necessity to
introduce the
"harmony of
waves" and to
deduce the "de
Broglie"
wavelength are
based on a
logical error
and on a
misunderstanding
of SR.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">It is a quite funny
situation that
in spite of
this error his
result seems
usable to
explain
certain
physical
processes. It
is one goal of
my physical
activities to
understand
this. In one
fundamental
case I have
found an
explanation.
That is the
scattering of
electrons at a
double /
multiple slit.
If such
experiment is
viewed from a
specific
inertial frame
(the one
normally
used), de
Brolgie's
calculation
conforms to
the
measurement.
However in any
other frame it
fails. - I can
explain why
the de Broglie
wave seems to
work even
though it is
erroneous.
(Not here but
I can give you
a reference if
you want it.)</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Regarding Hönl I do not
understand
what you say.
Hönl did NOT
get a correct
mass by
assuming only
the electrical
force in the
electron. He
was wrong by a
factor of
about 300 as I
wrote earlier.
But the
calculation
which I did is
correct with
high precision
and the
formula does
not have any
free
parameters,
only the
standard ones.
I do not know
any other
model which
has this. Do
you? Then
please give me
a reference.</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0in 0in
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman',
serif;"
class=""><span
style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Best regards<br
class="">
Albrecht</span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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