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<p>Chip:</p>
<p>So you think the laws come first and reality is basically what we
see with a few tweeks</p>
<p>Quote by Albert Michelson<br>
</p>
<p>While it is never safe to affirm that the future of Physical
Science has no marvels in store even more astonishing than those
of the past, it seems probable that <b>most of the grand
underlying principles have been firmly established</b> and that
further advances are to be sought chiefly in the rigorous
application of these principles to all the phenomena which come
under our notice. It is here that the science of measurement shows
its importance — where quantitative work is more to be desired
than qualitative work. An eminent physicist remarked that <b>the
future truths of physical science are to be looked for in the
sixth place of decimals</b>. <br>
</p>
<p>1894, dedication of Ryerson Physical Laboratory, quoted in Annual
Register 1896, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text"
href="https://books.google.com/books?id=HysXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA159">p.
159</a>.</p>
<p>Then came quantum theory</p>
<p>Does the fact that you can move the building, tree, mountain,
planet, or galaxy, prove that these things are not reality, the
only question is whether they are probability waves or some
exhibit some other ontology. <br>
</p>
<p>Wolf<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/22/2018 3:37 AM, Chip Akins wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes. I agree that we need to make that next
step of describing what is going on which creates what we can
observe.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But I also firmly believe that there is an
independent objective reality which is described by the energy
and its reaction to space. And that we are also made of the
same kinds of thing which we observe (Energy reacting with
space creating particles, etc.).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The independent objective reality does not
depend on us for it to exist, but we can interact with it and
make small changes to it in the scheme of things. The
building, tree, mountain, planet, or galaxy, are still there,
whether we observe them or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can change the shape of the lens in our
eye and distort an image just as we can change the shape of an
external lens and distort an image. The laws which govern
these reactions are not changed. Those laws, those causes,
which define our universe, are the reasons that particles
exist and behave as they do. It is not our observation which
defines those objective laws of the universe. But we can do a
much better job of understanding those laws. That is the next
step.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 21, 2018 7:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] To realists out there<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Chip:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The point is we do not see objects out there, we process the
imagefalling on our retina using our encoded beliefs into a
mental mage display, we do not directly see objects but
instead created the perception with all its properties<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If we saw objects directly they would not move when we fiddle
with the image in the experiment I described <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And because we do not see object directly but only
perceptions that we believe is reality, once we realize
reality is NOT objects then the door is open to ask the
question, "Is there a better assumption about what explains
our sensations?"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And a step along this path was taken by Quantum Theory which
substitutes probability waves for the classic object reality.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>But probabilities are squirmy and unsatisfying to me and most
of us in the forum- instead as my paper for FQXI proposes I
believe reality is better described by events, and
specifically closed action cycles in time. This is not
solipsism. It does not mean there is nothing external. It
means the next step in our world view is to replace objects
and probabilities with interacting events. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And specifically for your paper it means space is no longer
an independent objective thing out there but rather a creation
that explains certain repetitive sensations and therefore
Lorenz is right there is a fundamental background, and
Einstein is right every coordinate frame defines it own space.
But neither of them have made the next step. That we are all
measuring through our coordinate frames and learned theories
that continue to evolve.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>hope this helps it certainly helps me to try to find the
words that explain Plato's cave idea in modern terms.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>wolf <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/21/2018 1:57 PM, Chip Akins wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But we do have physical explanation for
the distortion of an image by a non-uniform convex lens. The
refractive properties of the lens are well known and
documented, so that we can accurately predict the distortion
a particular lens will cause.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While we are made of material molecules,
atoms, and particles, which have an electromagnetic set of
characteristics, and that means that our perceptions are
based on our physical makeup, and our abilities to sense
certain electromagnetic interactions, the fundamental
reality that exists in the universe can continue to exist
without any one of us, or all of us.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The evidence indicates that it is not
only illogical but extremely arrogant to assume otherwise.
Our consciousness does not create material objects in the
universe, but it does allow us to sense and interpret what
we sense in various, sometimes erroneous, ways. There are
many ways for us to test this hypothesis, and we actually
test it many times each day. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just my two cents, and my 5 senses.
Opinion and tangible physical mechanisms respectively.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [General] To realists out there</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>To all:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I just submitted an essay contest to FQXI that is a short
version of the physics of the observer I am working on.<span
style="font-size:13.5pt"> One of the responses claims I am
completely off the mark and was signed "realist" </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Some of you may have the same "realist" inclinations so think of this simple experiment:</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Consider any object lens image setup.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Bend the image screen and you will see the image is distorted, but no such distortion changes the object.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Now do the same thing but use your eye as the lens image part of the setup.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> Close one eye. With the other focus on an object - say a coffee cup on the desk 1 meter away. Now push the open eye from the side with your finger. This bends the retina and also moves or distorts the coffee cup.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">There is no physical mechanism in our current science that accounts for such a distortion of the coffee cup if the coffee cup you see is an independent object.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Conclusion: Neither the coffee cup nor anything we see in our daily environment is an independent objective reality. We are living in an interpretation of sensor interactions that is implemented by a physics inside the observer. Developing and defining this physics and straightening out the errors that have crept into our current physics due to the assumption that reality is the way we see it is the the the challenge confronting science today </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>If you want to look at the paper click on<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><a href="https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043" moz-do-not-send="true">https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">If you want to rate it it might help me win, never know.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Wolf<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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