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<div class="moz-forward-container">Andre<br>
Comments in your text below<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2018 6:35 AM, André Michaud
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201802221435.w1MEZosI019670@mail70c0.megamailservers.com">
<title></title>
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi Wolfgang,</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When I say
"energy can be present even when no momentum can be
observed", I specifically refer to the well know
energy that a pair of electrons captive in mutual
covalent bounding between two protons, in a hydrogen
molecule.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It is
physically impossible that these two electrons not be
induced with the energy that can be calculated with
the Coulomb equation (stemming from Maxwell's first
equation) according to the distances separating both
electrons from their respective proton.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There is no way
either that this momentum energy that thez are induced
with can be expressed as motion since they are captive
with their momentum energy oriented to move in
opposite directions.</span></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
It must always be remembered that any statement about what happens
below the quantum level as your example is theoretical and one
must look carefully at the experiment and how the data is
processed as Chandra points out. But to be more specific are you
saying that in this case that these electrons have no mass and
their orbits are determined by electric fields alone? That
certainly is not the case for the Bohr atom in hydrogen or any
atom where Coulomb and inertial forces balance and I would be
supersized if the hydrogen molecule electron motion is so
radically different. At least I never hear of anything like it. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201802221435.w1MEZosI019670@mail70c0.megamailservers.com">
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I agree with
you that classical physics was and remains the jumping
off point for physics that can make any sense. In
fact, it can be demonstrated that Newton's physics
falls in direct sync with electromagnetism when his
equations are converted to electromagnetic form (to
take into account the existence of electric charges –
that were unknown when Newton established his theory)
and appropriately fine tuned to account for presence
of the magnetic energy aspect of elementary particles
masses.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Quantum theory
never was completely harmonized with electromagnetism
as Feynman himself noted, and neither were Relativity
theory (specifically speaking of Einstein's SR and
GR), so I also always had the same discomfort you
mention about them.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It is however
possible to reconcile the wave function with
electromagnetism, but not by trying to
reverse-engineer the electromagnetic properties that
the electron must have from the unrelated
characteristics of the wave function, which is what
has been the traditional attempts, but rather from
defining the electromagnetic properties of electron so
as to explain how thez can explain quantum resonance
states, whis is what de Broglie and Schrödinger were
contemplating.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Not so for
Einstein's theories, that I found were incorrectly
grounded on electromagnetism to start with, which is
something that Einstein himself had become aware of
close to the end of his life, and wrote about.</span></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I think we are in agreement here but though I've heard about
Einsteins latest work but have not studied his own problem with
his own theory<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201802221435.w1MEZosI019670@mail70c0.megamailservers.com">
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As for the
notion of "mass", that was defined before electric
charges and electromagnetism were understood at the
general level, I stopped having problems with the
concept when I started thinking about "mass" as
meaning "omnidirectional inertia", which then allowed
me to think of momentum energy as providing
"longitudinal unidirectional inertia", which
definitions allow thinking about "mass" as being
directly compatible with electromagnetism, because
"inertia" has the same meaning in electromagnetism and
classical mechanics.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">What this
allows, for example, is to understand with respect to
the bending of light that you mention, which I think
of rather as localized photons trajectories deflection
by the sun, is that the classic hv/c<sup>2</sup>
equation should rather be hv/2c<sup>2</sup> since
localized photons can be defined as self-sustaining
their own velocity from half their energy remaining
unidirectional sustaining their momentum while the
other half transversally oscillate according to
electromagnetism, while displaying "omnidirectional
inertia", which then results in the correct deflection
angle.</span></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
interesting the factor of 2 is necessary to match experiment and
is one of Einstein's achievements, but you are saying that half
the energy is due to electromagnetic transverse motion but there
is a <span style="font-size:11pt"><span style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">unidirectional
sustaining</span></span></span> Poynting vector energy that
together gives it the energy to calculate the correct deflection
when converted to a mass equivalent. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201802221435.w1MEZosI019670@mail70c0.megamailservers.com">
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">But this belong
to a paradigm entirely different from the current
paradigm, although grounded directly on
electromagnetism, which can be shown to be directly
compatible with correctly refocused classical
mechanics.</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I don't know if
this makes any sense to you, but I assure you that if
you were to start thinking of "mass" as meaning
"localized energy quantum displaying omnidirectional
inertia – which is exactly what the electron is from
the electromagnetic perspective", I am confident that
this would open new avenues of exploration to you,
even if not the same as mine.</span></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Well yes this is new to me, but interesting, have I understood
your idea correctly? Does it make sense to ask where this other
half goes when only hv is absorbed ? Is there an additional
momentum transfer with hidden energy during collisions and
absorption and emission.<br>
Also what is your concept of the ether in which the oscillations
happen. I've followed Schroedinger's original derivation and found
that any static three dimensional array will oscillate in the
small displacement approximation and satisfy Schroedinger's
equation Goldstien chapter 10 theory of small oscillations - the
derivation however involves mass held to its equilibrium position
by spring like linear forces in the small approximation regime. So
i think ether like Bohm is composed of small cells that are like
little clock systems containing classic charge and mass which
oscillate around their dynamic equilibrium state.<br>
My question is can one build a self contained system out of EM and
gravto-electric force fields? <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:201802221435.w1MEZosI019670@mail70c0.megamailservers.com">
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Best Regards</span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">André</span></span></span></p>
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<span>On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:07:14 -0800, Wolfgang Baer <wolf@nascentinc.com>
wrote:</wolf@nascentinc.com></span><br>
<br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p>Andre;</p>
<p>here is a copy of what I sent to the group; <span
style="font-size:11pt"><span style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">"neither
mass nor charge are observed when no energy is
present, but energy can be present even when no
momentum can be observed.' Observation requires
a flow of action i.e. energy and energy can be
EM or gravitational is that what you are saying?</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><br>
<span style="font-size:11pt"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chip and Chandra:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Golstien’s Classical Mechanics he
states the existence of mass, charge, space and time are a
prior assumptions. In grad school I always thought
classical physics was the last jumping off point for
physics that made sense i.e. corresponded to my sensory
intuition. Neither quantum or relativity theory gives me
the same feeling of comfort, that is why I like to, and
perhaps have always been stuck, on attempting to find my
way from classical physics assumptions.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree most with Chandra’s call for
reexamination of our belief in “<span
style="font-size:14.0pt">various characteristics of
waves and particles with reference to the experiments
that measure them and the interaction processes that
give rise to the data.’’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What I am missing ss the rational for
calling something emergent rather than fundamental. Most
of the arguments I’ve seen indeed include equations that
relate energy and perhaps properties of the CTF field to
mass and charge but why is one set of variables more
fundamental and the other derived.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consider mass a single parameter that
appears in the calculation of gravity and inertial forces
both as a source and sink. E=mc<sup>2</sup> does not make
any of the three parameters more fundamental than the
others , in fact since c<sup>2</sup> is related to space
permeability and susceptibility and is in this case equal
to the potential energy of the particle in a Universe mass
shell<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>so E = mMG/R
, and furthermore Sciama showed inertia is directly
calculable from a velocity dependent gravitational field
in analogy with the Magnetic field since any velocity
change of a particle is equal to the opposite velocity
change of the M mass of the surrounding universe.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So momentum is due to the velocity
dependent component of the grvito inertial field
fulfilling Mach’s principle.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not understand “<span
style="font-size:14.0pt">Particles much tinier than the
wavelength of a propagating radiation, and
electromagnetically non-resonant to the frequency, will
not experience any “momentum” due to the passing wave.”
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I assume you are assuming a mass-charge
particle and a very long EM wave. The EM wave passes the
charge is moved very slowly compared with its size- as it
moves it drags the mass along, the mass in turn interact
with the inertial gravity field and restrains the charge
from moving. If there were no mass attached the charge
would always stay in equilibrium with the field i.e. its
motion would be determined by the current in Maxwell’s
equation assuming transverse waves. <span
style="font-size:14.0pt">So, “momentum” is an
interaction property. </span>Yes but an interaction
property due to interaction with other masses. How does
this make mass emergent?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip I do not understand your first
statement. “<span style="font-size:14.0pt">One problem
with the approach you suggest is the overwhelming
evidence that space (the complex tension field) is a
frictionless and therefore massless medium.” </span>There
is no friction in elementary particle interactions why
does a frictionless medium have to be mass less?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">“In our
macro world momentum is the result of moving mass, but
for particles, and EM radiation, momentum is present
without what we call mass.’</span> I assume your are
talking about light bending around the sun. But that is
due to a refraction effect due to the fact that the speed
of light squared varies in a gravitational field.
Einstein’s field equations code this fact into space warp.
If you use the classic hv/c<sup>2</sup> one gets the wrong
answer by a factor of two.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Richard
has shown how confined momentum can create mass.</span>I
assume this has to do with gyroscopes and would be very
surprised if mass did not show up to calculate the<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>inertia in the first
place and such confinement depended upon internal
mass-charge interaction. After all what forces keep the
mass in a gyroscope from flying apart? Some form of
coulomb attraction? .</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">I have
also shown how displacements in the CTF can cause
momentum </span>This is very interesting and may give
us a hint that I asked Chandra starting this thread.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What properties of CTF are you
assuming? What motions of those properties are you
assuming that would confine the momentum to a particle
size?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This may lead to an answer I’m looking
for?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Wolf</p>
<p> </p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/21/2018 5:38 AM, André
Michaud wrote:</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:201802211338.w1LDcHem008972@mail129c0.megamailservers.com"
type="cite"> </blockquote>
</footer>
</div>
<title></title>
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">Hi
Chip (and All),</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">I
completely agree with you, except that I would
formulate what you say only from a strict
electromagnetism perspective, in which the
classical concept of "momentum" does not come in
perfect focus with the manner in which the energy
that allows momentum to exist is adiabatically
induced in charges by the Coulomb force (stemming
from Maxwell's first equation, which is Gauss's
equation for the electric field).</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">In
classical mechanics, momentum is obviously the
more fundamental principle, but in
electromagnetism energy proper is even more
fundamental than momentum, and still remains
adiabatically present even when translational
momentum is inhibited.</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">He
is how I would reformulate what you wrote, but
re-focused from the electromagnetism perspective:</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><i><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">"</span></span></i><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">Another
consideration regarding the energy of which mass
is made, is its similarity to the energy that
sustains momentum. In our macro world momentum is
the result of moving mass, which is due from the
electromagnetism perspective to translational
momentum energy not being inhibited in its motion,
but for charged particles, and EM radiation, the
energy sustaining their translational momentum is
present without its transversely
electromagnetically oscillating component being
called mass. Richard has shown how inhibiting the
forward motion of the energy sustaining momentum
can create inertia. I have also shown how
displacements in the CTF can cause momentum, and
how that specific momentum can become mass of a
particle. So there is some evidence from the
electromagnetism perspective which seems to
indicate the energy is more fundamental than
momentum and mass, and that mass, which in
electromagnetism amounts to the "omnidirectional
inertia" of transverslly oscillating energy, is
created from the same momentum sustaining
"unidirectional" energy that remains adiabatically
induced even when its translational motion is
inhibited.</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">At
any rate, neither mass nor charge are observed
when no energy is present, but energy can be
present even when no momentum can be observed. So
it is likely that momentum, mass and charge are
emergent properties, resulting from the physical
presence of energy as a materially existing
substance, which is adiabatically induced by the
Coulomb force in action between all charged
particles."</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">If
interested in this perspective on momentum, I
provide my analysis in Section "Momentum, the
Hamiltonian and the Lagrangian" starting on page
15 of this paper:</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman""><a
href="https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true" style="color:blue;
text-decoration:underline">https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibrium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf</a></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size:11pt"><span
style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">Best
Regards</span></span></span></span></span></p>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-CA"><span
style="line-height:115%"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">André</span></span></span><br>
---<br>
André Michaud<br>
GSJournal admin<br>
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<br>
<span>On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 00:28:29 -0600, "Chip Akins" <chipakins@gmail.com>
wrote:</chipakins@gmail.com></span><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One problem with the approach you
suggest is the overwhelming evidence that space (the
complex tension field) is a frictionless and therefore
massless medium.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another consideration regarding mass,
is its similarity to momentum. In our macro world momentum
is the result of moving mass, but for particles, and EM
radiation, momentum is present without what we call mass.
Richard has shown how confined momentum can create mass. I
have also shown how displacements in the CTF can cause
momentum, and how that specific momentum can become mass
of a particle. So there is some evidence which seems to
indicate the momentum is more fundamental than mass, and
that mass is created from confined momentum.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">At any rate, neither mass nor charge
are observed when no energy is present. So it is likely
that mass and charge are emergent properties, created by
the interaction of the complex tension field and energy,
and not fundamental components of space.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Foundational questions
Tension field stable particles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think the first question I would want to ask is whether
the idea of making charge and mass elementary makes sense
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I ask this because so many of our participants are
attempting to derive these quantities from the more
fundamental principles.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Then I would ask is there any traction in recognizing an
internal side of matter in addition to the past and future
side? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>As far as 4-D space time , I think putting time on a
spatial dimension and calling it the 4'th dimension is
confusing the actuality of change with the way we display
phenomena, Time is simply the state of a system we use as
a clock, which traditionally is the whole gravity driven
universe of stars, time intervals such as a second is a
measure of the amount of change required to go from one
state to another - the 4th dimension concept has always
been a confusion between the map and the territory.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The flow of charge around a circle produces a self
contained doughnut of magnetic field - this makes me think
cold mass have a similar characteristic and are we moving
along with our mass aong a cycle in time<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>wolf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/20/2018 3:00 PM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>“We nee</i><i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">d a geometry in which both
space and time are curved back on themselves to
provide a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi,
Fcm,Fmc are self contained eigen states at each
action quanta. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Does
any of this suggest a tension field you might be
thinking about??”</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Yes, Wolf,
we need to model mathematically the “twists and turns”
of different intrinsic potential gradients embedded in
CTF (Complex Tension Field) to create stationary
self-looped oscillations (<b><i>field-particles</i></b>).
Maxwell achieved that for the propagating linear
excitations using his brilliant observations of using
the double differentiation – giving us the EM wave
equation. We need to find non-propagating (stationary
– Newton’s first law) self-looped oscillations – the
in-phase ones will be stable, others will “break
apart” with different life-times depending upon how
far they are from the in-phase closed-loop conditions.
The successes of the mathematical oscillatory dynamic
model could be judged by the number of predicted
properties the theory can find for the <b><i>field-particles,</i></b>
which we have measured so far. The physical CTF must
remain stationary holding 100% of the cosmic energy. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">However, I
would not attempt to keep the primacy of Relativity by
trying to keep the Space-Time 4-D concept intact. If
we want to capture the ontological reality; we must
imagine and visualize the potential <b><i>foundational</i></b>
physical process and represent that with a set of
algebraic symbols and call them the primary parameters
of “different grades”. During constructing
mathematical theories, it is of prime importance to
introduce consciously this concept of “primary”, vs.
“secondary”, vs. “tertiary”, etc., physical parameters
related to any observable physical phenomenon. The
physical parameter that dictates the core existence of
an entity in nature should be considered as primary.
However, it is not going to be easy because of the
complexities in the different interaction processes –
different parameters take key role in transferring the
energy in different interactions. Besides, our
ignorance is still significantly broad compared to the
“validated” knowledge we have gathered about our
universe. Here is a glaring example. νλ = c = (1/ϵµ).
If I am doing atomic physics, ν is of primary
importance because of the quantum resonance with ν and
the QM energy exchange rule is “hν”. “λ” changes from
medium to medium. If I am doing Astrophysics, ϵ and µ
for free space, are of primary significance; even
though people tend to use “c”, while missing out the
fundamental roles of ϵ and µ as some of the core
building blocks of the universe. Funny thing is that
the ϵ and µ of free space were recognized well before
Maxwell synthesized Electromagnetism.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">With this
background, I want underscore that the “running time,
“t” is of critical importance in our formulation of
the dynamic universe. And, yet “t’ is not a directly
measurable physical parameter of any object in this
universe. What we measure is really the frequency, or
its inverse, the oscillation periods of different
physical oscillators in this universe. So, frequency
can be dilated or contracted by controlling the
ambient physical parameter of the environment that
surrounds and INFLUENCES the oscillator. The running
time cannot be dilated or contracted; even though
Minkowsky introduced this “dilation” concept. This is
the reason why I have been pushing for the
introduction in physics thinking the Interaction
Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 19, 2018 10:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Foundational
questions Tension field stable particles</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Candra:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">Let’s
consider your tension filed is a medium underlying the
experience of space composed of charge and mass density
spread out in the cross-section of a time loop..
Coordinate frame cells of <i>small enough</i> sizes can
be described by constant enough mass and charge
densities in each cell. For small enough cells the mass
and charge values concentrated at their centers may be
used in stead of the densities. The resulting field of
center values can take any pattern that satisfies the
extended dAlambert principle. Besides the classic
electro-magnetic Fem and gravito-inertial force Fgi I
postulate forces tat hold charge and mass together Fcm,
Fmc. This condition assures mass charge centers in each
cell appear at locations of balanced forces. Each
pattern which satisfies this condition represents a
static state of the loop in which the patterns are fixed
for the lifetime of the loop.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>The Charge-Mass Separation Vector
and Equilibrium States</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">The physical
size of the space is its volume. The volume (Vol) of
space is the sum of the infinitesimal volumes dVol of
each of the cells composing that space “Vol = ∫<sub>all
space</sub> dVol”. These infinitesimal volumes are
calculated from the mass-charge density extensions in
each cell when viewed externally as shown in figure
4.3-3a . The physical volume depends upon the mass
charge separation pattern of the equilibrium state the
system being modeled exists in. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In CAT the extension of a cell can be
calculated as follows. In each cell the distance between
the center of charge and mass is a vector d<b>ζ.</b> The
projection of this vector onto the degrees of freedom
directions available for the charge and mass to move in
the generalized coordinate space allows us to expansion
this vector as, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 4.3-1 <b>dζ =</b> dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙u<sub>t</sub></b>
+ dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙u<sub>x</sub> </b>+ dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙u<sub>y</sub>
</b>+ dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙u<sub>z</sub> +…</b> dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙u<sub>f</sub>
+…,</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">where the <b>u<sub>f</sub></b>’s are
the unit vectors. A space limited to Cartesian 3-space
is characterized by three x,y,z directions, but CAT
models a generalized space that encompasses all sensor
modalities not only the optical ones. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The volume of a cell calculated from
the diagonal expansion vector “<b>dζ”</b> by multiplying
all non zero coefficients,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 4.3-2 dVol = dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙…∙</b>dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙…
.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The shape of this volume is
determined by the direction of the expansion vector
which in turn is determined by the direction and
strength of forces pulling the charge and mass apart.
The direction of pull depends upon the number of
dimensions available in the generalized coordinates of
the media. The forces must be in equilibrium but exact
equilibrium pattern depends upon which global loop
equilibrium state “Ζ” the event being modeled is in. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the simplest equilibrium state the
masses and charges are collocated. This implies the
internal forward propagating in time forces F<sub>cm</sub>,F<sub>mc</sub>,
and backward propagating in time force F<sub>mc</sub>*,F<sub>cm</sub>*
are zero, and if there are no internal force pulling the
charges and masses together then sum of the remaining
exterior gravito-electric forces pulling the charge and
mass apart must separately be zero precisely at the
collocation point. A trivial condition that satisfies
these equations is when all forces are zero. In this
case there is no action in the media and no action for
expanding the coordinate frame defining a volume of
space. We are back to a formless blob of zero volume,
where all charges and masses are at the same point. This
is the absolute ground state of material, one level of
something above nothing. The big bang before the energy
of action flow is added. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter" />
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0" />
<v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0" />
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1" />
<v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2" />
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth" />
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight" />
<v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1" />
<v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2" />
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth" />
<v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0" />
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight" />
<v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0" />
</v:formulas>
<v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect" />
<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t" />
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='position:absolute;left:0;text-align:left;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:190.5pt;height:187.5pt;z-index:-251658240;mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;mso-wrap-distance-right:0;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0;mso-position-horizontal:left;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f">
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<w:wrap type="square"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img
data-cid="cid:image001.gif@01D3AAA9.A05423A0"
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="cid:image001.gif@01D3AAA9.A05423A0"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1026" align="left" width="254"
height="250"><!--[endif]-->To exemplify the methods we
consider an equilibrium state of a single isolated cell
whose only degree of freedom is the time direction. This
means the volume in all space directions are
infinitesimally small and the volume can be considered a
single line of extension “ΔVol = ΔT<sub>w</sub> = ∫dζ<sub><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">t</span></sub><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> “ </span>along the time
direction as shown in the god’s eye perspective of
figure 4.3-6. In this situation we can consider charges
and masses to be point particles. Forces as well as
action can only propagate along the material length of
the line time line represented in space as “Qw”. We now
list the sequence of changes that can propagate through
around the equilibrium positions indicated by numbers in
parenthesis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->The
upper charge is pushed from its equilibrium position
(filled icon) forward along the time line<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->It
exerts a force “Fem” on the left charge pushing it
forward while feeling a reaction force “Fem*” that
retards it back to its equilibrium position<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
the left charge is moved from equilibrium it exerts an
internal “Fcm” force on the bottom mass while feeling a
reaction force “Fcm*” which returns it to equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">(4)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
the bottom mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a
force “Fgi” on the right mass while feeling a reaction
force “Fgi*” which returns it to equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">(5)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
the right mass is moved from equilibrium it exerts a
force “Fmc” on the upper charge while feeling a reaction
force “Fmc*” which returns it to equilibrium. We are now
back to (1).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">If the
system is isolated there is no dissipation into other
degrees of freedom and the oscillation continues to move
as a compression wave around the “Qw” time line
circumference forever. The graph however is static and
shows a fixed amount of action indicated by the shaded
arrows around the time line. Motion in “block” models is
produced by the velocity of the observer or model
operator as he moves around the time line. From our
god’s eye perspective an action density is permanently
painted on the clock dial and thereby describes an total
event. The last degree of freedom events are rather
trivial <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We need a geometry in which both
space and time are curved back on themselves to provide
a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self
contained eigen states at each action quanta. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Does any of this suggest a tension
field you might be thinking about??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/24/2018 7:20 PM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Yes, I have submitted an essay.
FQXi has not sent the approval link yet. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. Replacement of our SPIE conf.
Without a supporting infrastructure to replace
SPIE-like support, it is very difficult to manage. I
will try NSF during the last week of May. Do you
want to start negotiating with some out-of-box
European groups?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. Re-starting afresh from the
bottom up is the only way to start re-building a
unified field theory. It is futile to force-fit
whole bunch of different theories that were
structured differently at different states of human
cultural epoch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:08 PM, Wolfgang Baer <<a
href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p>Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Just rereading your 2015 paper "Urgency of
evolution..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I love the sentiment " This is a good time to
start iteratively re-evaluating and
restructuring all the foundational postulates
behind all the working theories"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Did you write a paper for FQXi?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I sent one in <a
href="https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Is there any chance to get a replacement for the SPIE conference, one that would expand the questions </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">beyond the nature of light?</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Wolf</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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