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<p><font size="+1">Chandra:</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">If two electrons move side by side, the main
force between them is of course the electrostatic one. But there
is an additional contribution to the force which is measured in
the frame of an observer at rest (like the one of Millikan). In
the frame of the moving electrons (maybe they belong to the same
frame) there is only the electrostatic force, true. The
different amount seen by the observer can be calculated by the
use of the force-related Lorentz transformation - from the frame
of the electrons to the frame of the observer.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">If the oil-drop chamber is in steady motion this
has primarily no influence. Important is the motion state of the
observer. If the observer is at rest with respect to the moving
oil-drops (and so of the electrons), he will notice a
contribution of magnetism. Any motion of the chamber does not
matter for this fact.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">In general magnetism is visible for an observer
who is in motion with respect to both charges under
consideration. As soon as an observer moves with one charge,
i.e. he is at rest with respect to the frame of one of the charges,
then there is no magnetic field for him. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Your example of two compass needles is a more
complex one even if it does not look so. To treat this case
correctly we have to take into account the cause of the magnetism
of the needle, that means of the circling charges in the atoms
(in Fe). If we would do this then - seen from our own frame -
both groups of charges are moving, the charges in the conductor
and also the charges in the needle's atoms. So as both are
moving with respect to the observer, this is the cause for a
magnetic field between both objects. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Albrecht<br>
</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.02.2018 um 21:02 schrieb
Roychoudhuri, Chandra:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Albrecht: Your point
is well taken. Not being expert in magnetism, I need to
spend more time on this issue.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">However, let me pose
a question to think.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">If two electrons are
trapped in two side by side but separate Millikan oil drops,
the two electrons feel each other’s static E-field, but no
magnetic field. If the oil-drop chamber was given a steady
velocity, could Millikan have measured the presence of a
magnetic field due to the moving electrons (“current”),
which would have been dying out as the chamber moved further
away? This experiment can be conceived in many different
ways and can be executed. Hence, this is not a pure
“Gedanken” experiment. I am sure, some equivalent experiment
has been done by somebody. Send me the reference, if you can
find one.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Are two parallel
current carrying conductors deflecting magnetic needles
(undergraduate experiment) different from two independent
electrons moving parallel to each other?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">I have just
re-phrased Einstein’s example that you have given below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Albrecht Giese<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Foundational questions
Tension field stable particles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Chandra,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I like very much what you have
written here. Particularly what you say about "time" which
physically means oscillations. That is what one should keep
in mind when thinking about relativity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">However in one point I have to
object. That is your judgement of the parameter</span>
<span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">µ</span>. <span
style="font-size:13.5pt">
I think that it is a result from the historical fact that
magnetism was detected long time earlier than electricity.
So magnetism plays a great role in our view of physics which
does not reflect its role there. We know since about 100
years that magnetism is not a primary phenomenon but an
apparent effect, a side effect of the electric field which
is caused by the finiteness of c. If c would be infinite
there would not be any magnetism. This is given by the
equation
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">c<sup>2</sup>
= (1/ϵµ)</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> which you
have mentioned. This equation should be better written as
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">µ =
(1/c<sup>2</sup>ϵ) </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> to
reflect this physical fact, the dependency of the magnetism
on c.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">The symmetry between
electricity and magnetism is suggested by Maxwell's
equation. These equations are mathematically very elegant
and well usable in practice. But they do not reflect the
physical reality. Easiest visible is the fact that we have
electrical monopoles but no magnetic monopoles. Einstein has
described this fact by saying: Whenever an observer is in a
magnetic field, he can find a motion state so that the
magnetic field disappears. - This is as we know not possible
for an electric field.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I think that we have discussed
this earlier. Do you remember?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Albrecht</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 21.02.2018 um 00:00 schrieb
Roychoudhuri, Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>“We nee</i><i><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">d a geometry in which both
space and time are curved back on themselves to provide
a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self
contained eigen states at each action quanta.
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Does
any of this suggest a tension field you might be
thinking about??”</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Yes, Wolf, we
need to model mathematically the “twists and turns” of
different intrinsic potential gradients embedded in CTF
(Complex Tension Field) to create stationary self-looped
oscillations (<b><i>field-particles</i></b>). Maxwell
achieved that for the propagating linear excitations using
his brilliant observations of using the double
differentiation – giving us the EM wave equation. We need
to find non-propagating (stationary – Newton’s first law)
self-looped oscillations – the in-phase ones will be
stable, others will “break apart” with different
life-times depending upon how far they are from the
in-phase closed-loop conditions. The successes of the
mathematical oscillatory dynamic model could be judged by
the number of predicted properties the theory can find for
the <b><i>field-particles,</i></b> which we have measured
so far. The physical CTF must remain stationary holding
100% of the cosmic energy. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext"> However, I
would not attempt to keep the primacy of Relativity by
trying to keep the Space-Time 4-D concept intact. If we
want to capture the ontological reality; we must imagine
and visualize the potential <b><i>foundational</i></b>
physical process and represent that with a set of
algebraic symbols and call them the primary parameters of
“different grades”. During constructing mathematical
theories, it is of prime importance to introduce
consciously this concept of “primary”, vs. “secondary”,
vs. “tertiary”, etc., physical parameters related to any
observable physical phenomenon. The physical parameter
that dictates the core existence of an entity in nature
should be considered as primary. However, it is not going
to be easy because of the complexities in the different
interaction processes – different parameters take key role
in transferring the energy in different interactions.
Besides, our ignorance is still significantly broad
compared to the “validated” knowledge we have gathered
about our universe. Here is a glaring example. νλ = c =
(1/ϵµ). If I am doing atomic physics, ν is of primary
importance because of the quantum resonance with ν and the
QM energy exchange rule is “hν”. “λ” changes from medium
to medium. If I am doing Astrophysics, ϵ and µ for free
space, are of primary significance; even though people
tend to use “c”, while missing out the fundamental roles
of ϵ and µ as some of the core building blocks of the
universe. Funny thing is that the ϵ and µ of free space
were recognized well before Maxwell synthesized
Electromagnetism.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext"> With this
background, I want underscore that the “running time, “t”
is of critical importance in our formulation of the
dynamic universe. And, yet “t’ is not a directly
measurable physical parameter of any object in this
universe. What we measure is really the frequency, or its
inverse, the oscillation periods of different physical
oscillators in this universe. So, frequency can be dilated
or contracted by controlling the ambient physical
parameter of the environment that surrounds and INFLUENCES
the oscillator. The running time cannot be dilated or
contracted; even though Minkowsky introduced this
“dilation” concept. This is the reason why I have been
pushing for the introduction in physics thinking the
Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 19, 2018 10:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Foundational questions
Tension field stable particles</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Candra:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"> Let’s consider
your tension filed is a medium underlying the experience of
space composed of charge and mass density spread out in the
cross-section of a time loop.. Coordinate frame cells of
<i>small enough</i> sizes can be described by constant
enough mass and charge densities in each cell. For small
enough cells the mass and charge values concentrated at
their centers may be used in stead of the densities. The
resulting field of center values can take any pattern that
satisfies the extended dAlambert principle. Besides the
classic electro-magnetic Fem and gravito-inertial force Fgi
I postulate forces tat hold charge and mass together Fcm,
Fmc. This condition assures mass charge centers in each cell
appear at locations of balanced forces. Each pattern which
satisfies this condition represents a static state of the
loop in which the patterns are fixed for the lifetime of the
loop.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>The Charge-Mass Separation Vector and
Equilibrium States</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">The physical
size of the space is its volume. The volume (Vol) of space
is the sum of the infinitesimal volumes dVol of each of the
cells composing that space “Vol = ∫<sub>all space</sub>
dVol”. These infinitesimal volumes are calculated from the
mass-charge density extensions in each cell when viewed
externally as shown in figure 4.3-3a . The physical volume
depends upon the mass charge separation pattern of the
equilibrium state the system being modeled exists in.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> In CAT the extension of a
cell can be calculated as follows. In each cell the distance
between the center of charge and mass is a vector d<b>ζ.</b>
The projection of this vector onto the degrees of freedom
directions available for the charge and mass to move in the
generalized coordinate space allows us to expansion this
vector as,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 4.3-1 <b>dζ =</b>
dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙u<sub>t</sub></b> + dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙u<sub>x</sub>
</b>+ dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙u<sub>y</sub> </b>+ dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙u<sub>z</sub>
+…</b> dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙u<sub>f</sub> +…,</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b>where the <b>u<sub>f</sub></b>’s
are the unit vectors. A space limited to Cartesian 3-space
is characterized by three x,y,z directions, but CAT models a
generalized space that encompasses all sensor modalities not
only the optical ones. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The volume of a cell
calculated from the diagonal expansion vector “<b>dζ”</b> by
multiplying all non zero coefficients,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eq. 4.3-2 dVol = dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙…∙</b>dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙…
.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The shape of this volume is
determined by the direction of the expansion vector which in
turn is determined by the direction and strength of forces
pulling the charge and mass apart. The direction of pull
depends upon the number of dimensions available in the
generalized coordinates of the media. The forces must be in
equilibrium but exact equilibrium pattern depends upon which
global loop equilibrium state “Ζ” the event being modeled is
in.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> In the simplest equilibrium
state the masses and charges are collocated. This implies
the internal forward propagating in time forces F<sub>cm</sub>,F<sub>mc</sub>,
and backward propagating in time force F<sub>mc</sub>*,F<sub>cm</sub>*
are zero, and if there are no internal force pulling the
charges and masses together then sum of the remaining
exterior gravito-electric forces pulling the charge and mass
apart must separately be zero precisely at the collocation
point. A trivial condition that satisfies these equations is
when all forces are zero. In this case there is no action in
the media and no action for expanding the coordinate frame
defining a volume of space. We are back to a formless blob
of zero volume, where all charges and masses are at the same
point. This is the absolute ground state of material, one
level of something above nothing. The big bang before the
energy of action flow is added.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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src="cid:part3.AF4DD3DF.FB5755F2@a-giese.de"
v:shapes="_x0000_s1026" class="" align="left" height="250"
width="254"><!--[endif]-->To exemplify the methods we
consider an equilibrium state of a single isolated cell
whose only degree of freedom is the time direction. This
means the volume in all space directions are infinitesimally
small and the volume can be considered a single line of
extension “ΔVol = ΔT<sub>w</sub> = ∫dζ<sub><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">t</span></sub><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> “
</span>along the time direction as shown in the god’s eye
perspective of figure 4.3-6. In this situation we can
consider charges and masses to be point particles. Forces as
well as action can only propagate along the material length
of the line time line represented in space as “Qw”. We now
list the sequence of changes that can propagate through
around the equilibrium positions indicated by numbers in
parenthesis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->The upper charge is pushed
from its equilibrium position (filled icon) forward along
the time line<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->It exerts a force “Fem” on the
left charge pushing it forward while feeling a reaction
force “Fem*” that retards it back to its equilibrium
position<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->While the left charge is moved
from equilibrium it exerts an internal “Fcm” force on the
bottom mass while feeling a reaction force “Fcm*” which
returns it to equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(4)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->While the bottom mass is moved
from equilibrium it exerts a force “Fgi” on the right mass
while feeling a reaction force “Fgi*” which returns it to
equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(5)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]-->While the right mass is moved
from equilibrium it exerts a force “Fmc” on the upper charge
while feeling a reaction force “Fmc*” which returns it to
equilibrium. We are now back to (1).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">If the system is
isolated there is no dissipation into other degrees of
freedom and the oscillation continues to move as a
compression wave around the “Qw” time line circumference
forever. The graph however is static and shows a fixed
amount of action indicated by the shaded arrows around the
time line. Motion in “block” models is produced by the
velocity of the observer or model operator as he moves
around the time line. From our god’s eye perspective an
action density is permanently painted on the clock dial and
thereby describes an total event. The last degree of freedom
events are rather trivial
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We need a geometry in which
both space and time are curved back on themselves to provide
a donut in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are self
contained eigen states at each action quanta.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Does any of this suggest a tension field
you might be thinking about??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/24/2018 7:20 PM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Yes, I have submitted an essay. FQXi
has not sent the approval link yet.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. Replacement of our SPIE conf.
Without a supporting infrastructure to replace SPIE-like
support, it is very difficult to manage. I will try NSF
during the last week of May. Do you want to start
negotiating with some out-of-box European groups? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. Re-starting afresh from the bottom
up is the only way to start re-building a unified field
theory. It is futile to force-fit whole bunch of
different theories that were structured differently at
different states of human cultural epoch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:08 PM, Wolfgang Baer <<a
href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Just rereading your 2015 paper "Urgency of
evolution..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I love the sentiment " This is a good time to start
iteratively re-evaluating and restructuring all the
foundational postulates behind all the working
theories"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Did you write a paper for FQXi?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I sent one in <a
href="https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Is there any chance to get a replacement for the SPIE conference, one that would expand the questions </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">beyond the nature of light?</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Wolf</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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