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    <p>Wolf:<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 02.03.2018 um 04:05 schrieb Wolfgang
      Baer:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <p>I see no conflict between our understanding of magnetism and
        coriolis forces and both are interpretation that can be created
        or not by the way we look at phenomena.</p>
      <p>WE start to disagree what I because we agree want to look at
        the physics of the observer as an integral and necessary part of
        how phenomena are perceived. And this is where we should be
        focusing our discussion. What assumptions are valid and what
        physics would we develop if we change our assumptions?<br>
      </p>
      <p>more comments added</p>
    </blockquote>
    ... and some comments back.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com">
      <p>Wolf<br>
      </p>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2018 6:52 AM, Albrecht Giese
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=utf-8">
        <p>Wolf:</p>
        <p>my answers again in your text.<br>
        </p>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Am 01.03.2018 um
          04:59 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:</font><br>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=utf-8">
          <p>Albrecht:</p>
          <p>The Coriolis force as a surrogate for the Magnetic force is
            a good example that shows we are talking about ttwo
            different things. I was taught exactly what you repeated
            below in Mr. Bray's physics class and did not believe it
            then because when I take a ride on a Merry-go-Round I feel a
            force that is real. Period.</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">That is indeed
          correct. It is a real force. If we have a hurricane on earth
          it is a result of the Coriolis force and that is a real force.
          The point is, however, that it is not a NEW force but the well
          known Newtonian inertial force; just interpreted in a
          different way.<br>
          <br>
          The same with magnetism. Also magnetism shows a real force.
          And that force is the electric force, but also in this case
          interpreted in a different way.<br>
        </font></blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">OK</font></b><br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de"><font
          face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> </font>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p>I do not care what you call it You can look at me from many
            different angles and in many different ways but the force I
            feel is real, <br>
          </p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Yes, it is real, but
          interpreted in a different way.</font><br>
      </blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">OK</font></b><br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p> </p>
          <p>What I am arguing and what I want you to be aware of is
            that in the sentence "The Coriolis force is a non-existent
            force." it is the name of the force that may be the wrong
            name for the  force I experience, but the force is real.</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">You are right, better
          wording would be "it does not exist as a NEW force".</font><br>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p>All the examples I've give and let me add the Lorenz
            Force   F= E*q + B xV , where V my velocity.You think I am
            arguing but  I am not arguing that by  moving at some
            velocity you can make B disappear in your equation and by
            moving at another velocity you can make V equal to zero in
            your equation. I am arguing that you cannot make the
            phenomena disappear. No matter how many theories you invent
            and how many different names you invent. The phenomena, the
            force  I feel does not depend on your theory. I and the
            situation I am in is an independent reality. All you can do
            with Lorenz transformations is shift the name of the force
            from magnatic to and additional Coulonb component. Exactly
            the same way moving from astationary observer at the center
            of the Merry-go-Round shifts the name ov the force from
            acceleration to Coreolis. Its the same force!<br>
          </p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">True, there is a
          force. But only interpreted as something new or additional,
          which is not the case.</font><br>
        <br>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">"To make magnetism
          disappear" does not mean that every force disappears. It means
          that you can explain all what you observe as Coulomb force.<br>
          <br>
          And one should be cautious in the practical case. In daily
          physical practise we measure magnetism by use of a magnetic
          dipole. But that is not the correct way. Correct is to use an
          electric charge, measure the force and compare it to the
          Coulomb force as visible from the actual state of motion.<br>
        </font></blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">OK</font></b><br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de"><font
          face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> <br>
          I recommend again at the "Veritasium" video. It shows the
          situation in a good and correct way.<br>
        </font>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p> </p>
          <p>Unless (and here is where I am trying to get us to go) one
            begins to believe and evoke the principles of quantum theory
            or its marcro-scopic extension which I am trying to develop.</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">All this has nothing
          to do with quantum theory. It is one of the sources of QM that
          physicists misinterpret classical physical processes, lack an
          explanation and then divert to QM seeking for an explanation,
          which is in those cases not needed. But misleading.</font><br>
      </blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">So we agree until we
          get to this point</font></b><br>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p>In those extensions the Newtonian, and Maxwellian 
            phenomena are true in the coordinate frame of the observer
            BECAUSE the coordinate frame supplies the space , now called
            Hilbert space in which those phenomena are displayed to the
            observer. The observer IS the coordinate frame and his
            observable phenomena occur within the space defined by that
            coordinate frame. Everything you see is seen in a space you
            create within the material from which you are built. <br>
          </p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I personally do not
          see the space as being created by anything. I keep my naive
          view that space is nothing than emptiness and has no extra
          properties, Euclidean geometry applies and is sufficient.</font><br>
        <br>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Should I ever
          encounter an argument that this is not sufficient, I am
          prepared to change my mind. But up to now it was not
          necessary.</font><br>
      </blockquote>
      <b>Does the fact that you simply are not recognizing that it is
        your first person perspective in which "empty" space appears
        that is your fundamental experience and any assumption that such
        experience is due to a real space is Theory. Do you not ask how
        is it that I am able to create the sensations I have. Are you
        and your experiences not part of the reality and therefore must
        be explained as part of your if you are to have a comprehensive
        theory. AND there is no explanation in classic or relativistic
        physics for the consciousness of the observer. One must begin to
        think in Quantum terms</b><br>
    </blockquote>
    We know that our brain gives us wrong or biased information about
    this world. Because our brains have developed to help us to survive,
    not to have insights. But as a guide to help us to survive it can
    only function if our understanding of the world is not too far away
    from the way as the world in fact is. <br>
    <br>
    As far as I can see, as long as people try to understand this world
    they (at least the scientists) know the problem that our brain and
    our senses are misleading us. So this general problem of
    understanding is in the mind of the people and was in their mind at
    least since the time of ancient Greece. The only question is how to
    start with an according investigation. One way to cope with this
    problem is and was to build measurement tools which give us results
    independent of our mood. These tools are continuously developed. And
    we are of course not at the end of this development. But we can only
    develop and correct our tools if there are results and hints which
    give us informations on errors. Without those informations we are
    playing with dice, and these dice do not have 6 numbers but many
    thousand numbers. Does this playing make any sense for us?<br>
    <br>
    Quantum theory has in my view nothing to do with the fact that our
    understanding is related to our brain. This assumption that a
    physical process depends on the consciousness of the observer has a
    different origin. Heisenberg found himself completely unable and
    helpless to understand the particle-wave phenomenon. So he once said
    that we have to go back to Plato and so he threw away all that
    progress which Newton has brought into our physical understanding.
    And on the other hand he neglected the proposal of Louis de Broglie
    about the particle-wave question because at that time he was already
    so much related to a mysterious view that he was no more able to
    leave that. - At this point I agree to Einstein and de Broglie that
    a mystification of physics will not give us progress.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com">
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p> </p>
          <p>All the physics before Einstein was developed with the
            assumption that there is an independent objective 3D reality
            space ( and it should be a stationary ether) in which all
            these objects appear. Einstein almost got it right. There is
            no independent ether and it all depends upon the coordinate
            frame. He did not take the next step. We observers are the
            coordinate frame   each of us supplies the ether. <br>
          </p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Here my position is
          completely opposite. We do have an independent ether as
          Lorentz has assumed it. And it is an ether in the sense that
          the speed of light is related to a fixed frame, and this does
          not cause any logical conflicts in my understanding.</font><br>
      </blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">OK so you make the
          assumption that we do have an independent ether. That is the
          old "naive reality" assumption and classic mechanics and EM
          theory is built on this assumption. But quantum theory is no
          longer built on this assumption.</font></b></blockquote>
    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Ether is not compatible
      with Einstein's understanding of relativity. But also QM is not
      compatible with Einstein's relativity. So I do not see any
      specific connection of QM to the absence of an ether. QM simple
      does not to care.<br>
      <br>
      Einstein said that an ether is not necessary and not helpful.
      Lorentz told him situations which by Lorentz view are not
      understandable without ether. Einstein repeated his denial of an
      ether but he could not answer the questions of Lorentz. <br>
    </font>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com"><font
        face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> </font><b><font
          face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
          So is the ether related to the fixed frame ? What ether is
          attached to my fixed frame? Are they different ethers? Or is
          there one ether, and we are all material objects moving in
          that ether who just happen to be able to interpret some
          configurations of material as space with objects moving in
          them. why should our mental display of our experience be
          anything but one possible way of building a mental display
          along a very very long path of evolution. Do you really
          believe you are the pinnacle or end of that process?<br>
        </font></b></blockquote>
    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">The ether of Lorentz does
      not mean anything more than the existence of a fixed frame. And in
      the view of Ludwik Kostro and particularly my view, the photons of
      our light are giving us this reference. All photons move with the
      same - absolute - speed c, and this speed is related to something.
      I guess to the position and motion state of the Big Bang. If we
      look at the CMB we see a different red shift depending on the
      direction. And we can quite easily calculate which motion with
      respect to our earth we must have so that this red shift becomes
      isotropic. This tells us what the reference of the ether most
      probably is.</font><br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com"><b><font
          face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> </font></b>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p> </p>
          <p>Please read may Vigier X Paper again but ignore the first
            part where I'm trying to show why SR is wrong - you argued a
            lot with that. The real reason SR is wrong is because
            Einstein developed it without recognizing that his
            imagination supplied the background ether and his rail car
            and .embankment observer where "RIDING ALONG" with their
            coordinate frames observing Einsteins imaginary space. They
            were not IN their own space.</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Can you please copy
          this essential part of your paper here? I do not have it at
          hand in this moment.</font><br>
      </blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">SEE ATTACHED</font></b><br>
    </blockquote>
    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Thank you.</font><br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com">
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de">
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p>This is where we should return to our SR discussion and
            properly add the observer to physics</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Special relativity
          gives us in my view not any reason to turn to an observer
          dependent physics. For Einstein's view it is correct, but for
          the Lorentzian it is not necessary.<br>
          <br>
          Ludwik Kostro, who participated in Vigier X, has written a
          book about "Einstein and the ether". And he has - among other
          sources - reprinted a letter exchange between Einstein and
          Lorentz about the necessity of an ether. Lorentz described a
          (Gedanken) experiment which in his view is not explainable
          without ether. Einstein refused to except an ether, but he did
          not present any arguments how this experiment can be
          understood without it.<br>
          <br>
          I still think that Einstein's relativity has mislead the
          physical world in a tremendous way. There are in fact
          relativistic phenomena, but Einstein's way to treat them was
          really bad.<br>
        </font></blockquote>
      <b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I agree and this
          agreement is what gave us a common goal of finding a better
          explanation.</font></b><br>
    </blockquote>
    <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hopefully<br>
      Albrecht<b><br>
      </b></font>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:3e79b401-86c6-47d1-8067-5c202598d5d0@nascentinc.com">
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:4f1a5d39-faa6-7053-cc36-1090bfcc6347@a-giese.de"><font
          face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> </font>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          CHANDRA- there may be an abstract independent CTF but my
          suggestion is that it may be the ether each of us is made of
          and therefor may be thought to be stationary.<br>
          <p> </p>
          <p>best wishes</p>
          <p>wolf</p>
        </blockquote>
        <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Best wishes <br>
          Albrecht</font><br>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:479b0594-4122-b085-7ac3-4d03ca9512c0@nascentinc.com">
          <p><br>
          </p>
          <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/27/2018 10:28 AM, Albrecht
            Giese wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite"
            cite="mid:8571c3bc-9778-2d91-5f23-767fe78e5a2e@a-giese.de">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=utf-8">
            <p>Wolf:</p>
            <p>I think that there is a simple answer to your concern
              regarding magnetism. If you accept that magnetism is not a
              real physical entity but a seeming effect then there
              should not exist the logical conflicts which you see.</p>
            <p>I think that the Coriolis force is a good example to
              understand the situation: Assume that you are sitting in a
              cabin without a view to the outside. Now assume that this
              cabin is rotating very silently so that you do not notice
              the rotation. You are sitting in a chair in the middle on
              the rotational axis. Now you throw a ball from your
              position away from you. You will expect that the ball
              flies on a straight path off. But you will observe that
              the ball flies on a curved path. And what will be your
              explanation? You will think that there must be a force
              which moves the ball to the side. - This is the Coriolis
              force.</p>
            <p>But this force does not in fact exist. If there is an
              observer on top of the cabin and can look into the cabin,
              in his view the ball moves on a straight line. And there
              is no reason for a force. <br>
            </p>
            <p>The Coriolis force is a non-existent force. Similarly the
              magnetic field is a non-existent field.<br>
            </p>
            <br>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New Roman,
                Times, serif">Am 27.02.2018 um 04:46 schrieb Wolfgang
                Baer:</font><br>
            </div>
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              <p class="MsoNormal">Albrecht:</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">I have a tremendous aversion to
                believing that the observer (unless we are talking
                quantum effects where measurement interferes with the
                object measured ) can have any effect on the independent
                “whatever it is” out there. But physicists often confuse
                measurement results with physical realities. <br>
              </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Regarding “<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">The relative
                  velocity between charges does NOT determine the
                  magnetic field.”</b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Jaxon Classical Electrodynamics p 136
                states the force between two current segments is oin
                differential form</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">           
                </span>d<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">F12</b><span
                  style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>= - I1*I2 (<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">dl1</b> ● <b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">dl2</b>)*<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">X12</b> /(c<sup>2</sup>
                * |<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">X12</b>|<sup>3</sup></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">now the current is charge q1*<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">v1 = </b>I1*<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">dl1 </b>and q2*<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">v2 = </b>I1*<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">dl1 </b>substituting
                means the magnetic force between the two charges is
                dependent on the dot product between the two velocities
                (<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">v1</b> ● <b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">v2</b>). </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Furthermore Goldstien Classical
                Mechanics talks about velocity dependent potentials p19</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">And we all know the magnetic force is
                F =~ v1 x B12 while the magnetic field is dependent on
                v! , so the force is dependent on two velocities.</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Now your statement ‘<b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">But the magnetic
                  field depends on the relative velocity between the
                  observer and the one charge and the observer and the
                  other charge. Where "observer" means the measuring
                  tool.” </b>Is certainly true because one can always
                define one coordinate frame that moves with velocity of
                the first charge and a second coordinate frame that
                moves with the velocity of the second charge. So in
                these two coordinate frames each one would say there is
                no B field.</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">However I see both charges in <b
                  style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">one coordinate
                  frame</b> and that is how the experiments leading to
                the force equations were conducted. So I question
                whether your assumption that there are two coordinate
                frames and I assume you would like to connected by the
                Lorenz transforms reflects physical reality. </p>
            </blockquote>
            <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I have asked you
              in the previous mail NOT to argue with coordinate frames
              because we should discuss physics and not mathematics. Now
              you cite me with statements about coordinate frames. How
              can I understand that?<br>
              <br>
              However if you really insist to talk about frames: The
              saying that two charges are in different coordinate frames
              means that these charges are <u>at rest</u> in different
              coordinate frames. They can of course be investigated by
              an observer (or a tool) which resides in <u>one </u>frame.<br>
              <br>
              The equation from Jackson which you have cited above is
              essentially the same as the one that I gave you in the
              previous mail. And it says also that the magnetic field
              depends on the <u>product </u>of both charges involved,
              not on their difference.<br>
            </font>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:05978305-1a73-2dd2-8d86-5749260bfb5c@nascentinc.com">
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">I reiterate the concept of fields
                even the coulomb field<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  
                </span>is passed upon the measured force between a test
                charge <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Qt and
                another charge Qn. So that the total force on the test
                charge is</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:3">                                   
                </span>F =~<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>SUM
                over all n (<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Qt
                * Qn / Rtn<sup>2</sup>)</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">And it is possible to introduce a
                field </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:3">                                   
                </span>E = SUM over all n (<span
                  style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Qn / Rtn<sup>2</sup>)</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">As that <span
                  style="mso-spacerun:yes">                       </span>F=
                Qt * E</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Perfectly good mathematically. But to
                assume that physically E is a property of space rather
                than simply the sum of charge to charge interactions
                that would happen if a test charge were at that space is
                a counter factual. And not consistent with the quantum
                photon theory.</p>
            </blockquote>
            <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Why do you assume
              that a field is a property of space? If you assume that
              space is nothing else than emptiness then you will have
              all necessary results. Why making things unnecessarily
              complicated?</font><br>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:05978305-1a73-2dd2-8d86-5749260bfb5c@nascentinc.com">
              <p class="MsoNormal">Which by the way I think is also
                wrong. Photons are false interpretations of charge to
                charge interactions. <br>
              </p>
            </blockquote>
            <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I do not remember
              that we talk here about quantum theory. For this
              discussion at least it is not needed. And regarding
              photons, I have explained very detailed that photons - as
              I have measured them in my thesis work - are particles
              with specific properties; but clearly particles. You did
              not object to my arguments but you repeat your statement
              that a photon as a particle is a false interpretation. It
              would be good to hear argument than only statements.</font><br>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:05978305-1a73-2dd2-8d86-5749260bfb5c@nascentinc.com">
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">that is for another discussion</p>
            </blockquote>
            <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Which else
              discussion? </font><br>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:05978305-1a73-2dd2-8d86-5749260bfb5c@nascentinc.com">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">best wishes</p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">wolf<br>
              </p>
            </blockquote>
            <font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Best wishes<br>
              Albrecht</font><br>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:05978305-1a73-2dd2-8d86-5749260bfb5c@nascentinc.com">
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/26/2018 3:27 AM,
                Albrecht Giese wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite"
                cite="mid:11f8cb71-1ee7-4a25-5a83-45a9eb68aa49@a-giese.de">
                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                  charset=utf-8">
                <p>Wolf,</p>
                <p>my comments and explanations in the text below.<br>
                </p>
                <br>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="-1">Am
                    25.02.2018 um 05:26 schrieb Wolfgang Baer:</font><br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
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                  <p class="MsoNormal">Albrecht:</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I think I understand your
                    arguments since this is what is generally taught,
                    however I have always been uncomfortable with the
                    statements involving “observer”.</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">So I question your statement “<span
                      style="font-size:13.5pt">The different amount seen
                      by the observer can be calculated by the use of
                      the force-related Lorentz transformation - from
                      the frame of the electrons to the frame of the
                      observer.”</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Now ancient experiments
                    discovered that there are two reciprocal forces
                    between charges. The relative distance R gives the
                    Coulomb force F<sub>E</sub> and the relative
                    velocity gives the Magnetic force F<sub>B </sub></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ignore:vglayout;
position:absolute;z-index:1;margin-left:161px;margin-top:17px;width:208px;
                      height:95px"><img
                        src="cid:part4.62A43779.994C936E@a-giese.de"
                        class="" height="95" width="208"></span><span
                      style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Now if these are independent
                    entities whose existence does not depend upon any
                    observation made by the observer (until we get to
                    quantum measurements) . <i
                      style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">This means the
                      physics is fixed </i>and so are the parameters.
                    Any measurement made by any coordinate frame when
                    properly processed for its own distortions will
                    result in the same parameters, so R,V, F<sub>B</sub>,
                    F<sub>E</sub><sup> </sup>and yes the speed of light
                    must be constant. </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">           
                    </span>If the measurement results differ either we
                    do not have objective measurement independent
                    reality or else there is an unaccounted artifact in
                    the measurement process.</p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">There is an error in your above
                  arguments. The relative velocity between charges does
                  NOT determine the magnetic field. But the magnetic
                  field depends on the relative velocity between the
                  observer and the one charge and the observer and the
                  other charge. Where "observer" means the measuring
                  tool.<br>
                  <br>
                  The entities are not independent in so far as any
                  observer will see them in a different way. That is not
                  a consequence of quantum mechanics but very simply the
                  consequence of the fact that in a moving system the
                  tools change (like rulers contract and clocks are
                  slowed down) and so their measurement results differ
                  from a tool measuring while being at rest. This is the
                  reason that we need a Lorentz transformation to
                  compare physical entities in one moving frame to
                  entities in another moving frame.<br>
                </font>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I and QM claims there is no
                    objective measurement independent reality. </p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">That may be the case but has nothing to
                  do with our discussion here. </font><br>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Lorenz assumed the coordinate
                    frame dilates and shrinks so that when raw
                    measurements are made and no correction is applied
                    we may not<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>observe
                    a magnetic field but instead a different Coulomb
                    field so that the actual result on the object
                    measured remains the same only the names of the
                    causes have been changed. </p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">You are permanently referring to
                  coordinate frames. But we are treating here physical
                  facts and not mathematical ones. So coordinates should
                  be omitted as an argument as I have proposed it
                  earlier. </font><br>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Now consider looking at the same
                    two charges from an arbitrary coordinate frame. then
                    in that frame the two charges will have wo
                    velocities V1 and V2 but there will always be a
                    difference V </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ignore:vglayout">
                    </span></p>
                  <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="left">
                    <tbody>
                      <tr>
                        <td height="16" width="89"><br>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr>
                        <td><br>
                        </td>
                        <td><img
                            src="cid:part5.82019B0E.F8AA4B0A@a-giese.de"
                            class="" height="115" width="258"></td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                   
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><sup> </sup></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><sup> </sup></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><sup> </sup></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><sup> </sup></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><sup> </sup></p>
                  <br style="mso-ignore:vglayout" clear="ALL">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I contend that it does not matter
                    what frame you chose cannot get rid of the relative
                    velocity. The only way you can get rid of the
                    magnetic field is if there was no relative velocity
                    in the first palace. And there never was a magnetic
                    field in the physics. </p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">As soon as the observer moves in the
                  same frame, i.e. with the same speed vector as one of
                  the charges, he does not see a magnetic field. In the
                  deduction of the magnetic field which I have attached
                  (from a talk at a conference last year) the magnetic
                  force is defined by the equation:</font><br>
                <img src="cid:part6.021A2552.DE864011@a-giese.de" alt=""
                  class=""><br>
                <font size="-1">where v and u are the speeds of two
                  charges, q1 and q2, , with respect to the observer. y
                  is the distance and gamma the Lorentz factor in the
                  set up shown.</font><br>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Therefore your further conclusion
                    “<span style="font-size: 13.5pt">As soon as an
                      observer moves with one charge, i.e. he is at rest
                      with respect to the frame of one of the charges,
                      then there is no magnetic field for him.” </span>Is
                    only true if there was no magnetic field in the
                    first place, a very special case.</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">We must be very careful not to
                    confuse the actual physics in a situation with the
                    way we look at it. </p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">I guess that you know the Coriolis
                  force. This force is somewhat similar to magnetism. It
                  is in effect for one observer but not for another one
                  depending on the observer's motion. And there is
                  nothing mysterious about it, and also quantum
                  mechanics is not needed for an explanation.<br>
                  <br>
                  In your logic you would have to say: If there is no
                  Coriolis force then there is no inertial mass. But
                  that is clearly not the case.</font><br>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">If we apply the same analysis to
                    the Michelson Morley experiment I think we will also
                    find that there never was a fringe shift in the
                    physics. The physics states charges interact with
                    other charges, basta. Introducing fields and then
                    attributing what has always been a summation of many
                    charge effects on one test charge onto a property of
                    empty space is simply a convenient mathematical
                    trick that hides the physical reality.</p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">The MM experiment is easily explained by
                  the fact that there is contraction in the direction of
                  motion. Nothing more is needed to explain the
                  null-result. In the view of Einstein space contracts
                  and in the view of Lorentz the apparatus contracts as
                  the internal fields contract. And the latter is a
                  known phenomenon in physics.<br>
                </font>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com"><font
                    size="-1"> </font>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I further submit this as an
                    argument that mass and charge are fundamental
                    physics and if there is to be a CTF it is the
                    tension that holds mass and charge together when
                    electro-magentic forces operating on charge
                    densities and gravito-inertial forces operating on
                    mass densities are not balanced and pulls mass and
                    charge apart. I further submit the the resulting
                    fluctuations in the mass-charge densities leads to
                    CTF propagating patterns that are an ontologically
                    defensible interpretation of Schroedingers Wave
                    function.<br>
                  </p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">An indication that mass is not
                  fundamental is the fact that mass can be converted
                  into energy. On the other hand charge cannot be
                  converted into energy; this can be taken as an
                  argument that it is fundamental.<br>
                </font>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="-1"> </font></p>
                </blockquote>
                <font size="-1">Anything still controversial? Then
                  please explain.<br>
                  Albrecht</font><br>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:52dd11be-779d-5b60-586c-75d49b237ba3@nascentinc.com">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Tell me why I’m wrong</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Wolf </p>
                  <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/23/2018 6:51 AM,
                    Albrecht Giese wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite"
                    cite="mid:cd0035cb-000b-d53c-4add-68bf5acc2f0d@a-giese.de">
                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                      charset=utf-8">
                    <p><font size="+1">Chandra:</font></p>
                    <p><font size="+1">If two electrons move side by
                        side, the main force between them is of course
                        the electrostatic one. But there is an
                        additional contribution to the force which is
                        measured in the frame of an observer at rest
                        (like the one of Millikan). In the frame of the
                        moving electrons (maybe they belong to the same
                        frame) there is only the electrostatic force,
                        true. The different amount seen by the observer
                        can be calculated by the use of the
                        force-related Lorentz transformation - from the
                        frame of the electrons to the frame of the
                        observer.<br>
                      </font></p>
                    <p><font size="+1">If the oil-drop chamber is in
                        steady motion this has primarily no influence.
                        Important is the motion state of the observer.
                        If the observer is at rest with respect to the
                        moving oil-drops (and so of the electrons), he
                        will notice a contribution of magnetism. Any
                        motion of the chamber does not matter for this
                        fact.<br>
                      </font></p>
                    <p><font size="+1">In general magnetism is visible
                        for an observer who is in motion with respect to
                        both charges under consideration. As soon as an
                        observer moves with one charge, i.e. he is at
                        rest with respect to the frame of one of the
                        charges, then there is no magnetic field for
                        him. <br>
                      </font></p>
                    <p><font size="+1">Your example of two compass
                        needles is a more complex one even if it does
                        not look so. To treat this case correctly we
                        have to take into account the cause of the
                        magnetism of the needle, that means of the
                        circling charges in the atoms (in Fe). If we
                        would do this then - seen from our own frame -
                        both groups of charges are moving, the charges
                        in the conductor and also the charges in the
                        needle's atoms. So as both are moving with
                        respect to the observer, this is the cause for a
                        magnetic field between both objects. <br>
                      </font></p>
                    <p><font size="+1">Albrecht<br>
                      </font><br>
                    </p>
                    <br>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.02.2018 um 21:02
                      schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
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                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Albrecht:
                            Your point is well taken. Not being expert
                            in magnetism, I need to spend more time on
                            this issue. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">However,
                            let me pose a question to think.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">If
                            two electrons are trapped in two side by
                            side but separate Millikan oil drops, the
                            two electrons feel each other’s static
                            E-field, but no magnetic field. If the
                            oil-drop chamber was given a steady
                            velocity, could Millikan have measured the
                            presence of a magnetic field due to the
                            moving electrons (“current”), which would
                            have been dying out as the chamber moved
                            further away? This experiment can be
                            conceived in many different ways and can be
                            executed. Hence, this is not a pure
                            “Gedanken” experiment. I am sure, some
                            equivalent experiment has been done by
                            somebody. Send me the reference, if you can
                            find one. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Are
                            two parallel current carrying conductors
                            deflecting magnetic needles (undergraduate
                            experiment) different from two independent
                            electrons moving parallel to each other?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">I
                            have just re-phrased Einstein’s example that
                            you have given below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#0A2A92">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                            #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                                General [<a
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
                                  Behalf Of </b>Albrecht Giese<br>
                                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 22, 2018
                                2:26 PM<br>
                                <b>To:</b> <a
                                  class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                  href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
                                Foundational questions Tension field
                                stable particles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        <p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Chandra,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I like very
                            much what you have written here.
                            Particularly what you say about "time" which
                            physically means oscillations. That is what
                            one should keep in mind when thinking about
                            relativity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">However in one
                            point I have to object. That is your
                            judgement of the parameter</span> <span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">µ</span>.
                          <span style="font-size:13.5pt"> I think that
                            it is a result from the historical fact that
                            magnetism was detected long time earlier
                            than electricity. So magnetism plays a great
                            role in our view of physics which does not
                            reflect its role there. We know since about
                            100 years that magnetism is not a primary
                            phenomenon but an apparent effect, a side
                            effect of the electric field which is caused
                            by the finiteness of c. If c would be
                            infinite there would not be any magnetism.
                            This is given by the equation </span><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">c<sup>2</sup>
                            = (1/ϵµ)</span><span
                            style="font-size:13.5pt"> which you have
                            mentioned. This equation should be better
                            written as </span><span
                            style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">µ
                            = (1/c<sup>2</sup>ϵ) </span><span
                            style="font-size:13.5pt"> to reflect this
                            physical fact, the dependency of the
                            magnetism on c. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">The symmetry
                            between electricity and magnetism is
                            suggested by Maxwell's equation. These
                            equations are mathematically very elegant
                            and well usable in practice. But they do not
                            reflect the physical reality. Easiest
                            visible is the fact that we have electrical
                            monopoles but no magnetic monopoles.
                            Einstein has described this fact by saying:
                            Whenever an observer is in a magnetic field,
                            he can find a motion state so that the
                            magnetic field disappears. - This is as we
                            know not possible for an electric field.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p><span style="font-size:13.5pt">I think that
                            we have discussed this earlier. Do you
                            remember?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                            style="font-size:13.5pt">Albrecht</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Am 21.02.2018 um 00:00
                            schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i>“We nee</i><i><span
                                style="font-size:14.0pt">d a geometry in
                                which both space and time are curved
                                back on themselves to provide a donut in
                                which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are
                                self contained eigen states at each
                                action quanta. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:14.0pt">Does any of
                                this suggest a tension field you might
                                be thinking about??”</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Yes,
                              Wolf, we need to model mathematically the
                              “twists and turns” of different intrinsic
                              potential gradients embedded in CTF
                              (Complex Tension Field) to create
                              stationary self-looped oscillations (<b><i>field-particles</i></b>).
                              Maxwell achieved that for the propagating
                              linear excitations using his brilliant
                              observations of using the double
                              differentiation – giving us the EM wave
                              equation. We need to find non-propagating
                              (stationary – Newton’s first law)
                              self-looped oscillations – the in-phase
                              ones will be stable, others will “break
                              apart” with different life-times depending
                              upon how far they are from the in-phase
                              closed-loop conditions. The successes of
                              the mathematical oscillatory dynamic model
                              could be judged by the number of predicted
                              properties the theory can find for the <b><i>field-particles,</i></b>
                              which we have measured so far. The
                              physical CTF must remain stationary
                              holding 100% of the cosmic energy.  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">    However,
                              I would not attempt to keep the primacy of
                              Relativity by trying to keep the
                              Space-Time 4-D concept intact. If we want
                              to capture the ontological reality; we
                              must imagine and visualize the potential <b><i>foundational</i></b>
                              physical process and represent that with a
                              set of algebraic symbols and call them the
                              primary parameters of “different grades”.
                              During constructing mathematical theories,
                              it is of prime importance to introduce
                              consciously this concept of “primary”, vs.
                              “secondary”, vs. “tertiary”, etc.,
                              physical parameters related to any
                              observable physical phenomenon. The
                              physical parameter that dictates the core
                              existence of an entity in nature should be
                              considered as primary. However, it is not
                              going to be easy because of the
                              complexities in the different interaction
                              processes – different parameters take key
                              role in transferring the energy in
                              different interactions. Besides, our
                              ignorance is still significantly broad
                              compared to the “validated” knowledge we
                              have gathered about our universe. Here is
                              a glaring example. νλ = c = (1/ϵµ). If I
                              am doing atomic physics, ν is of primary
                              importance because of the quantum
                              resonance with ν and the QM energy
                              exchange rule is “hν”.   “λ” changes from
                              medium to medium. If I am doing
                              Astrophysics, ϵ and µ for free space, are
                              of primary significance; even though
                              people tend to use “c”, while missing out
                              the fundamental roles of ϵ and µ as some
                              of the core building blocks of the
                              universe. Funny thing is that the ϵ and µ
                              of free space were recognized well before
                              Maxwell synthesized Electromagnetism.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">   
                              With this background, I want underscore
                              that the “running time, “t” is of critical
                              importance in our formulation of the
                              dynamic universe. And, yet “t’ is not a
                              directly measurable physical parameter of
                              any object in this universe. What we
                              measure is really the frequency, or its
                              inverse, the oscillation periods of
                              different physical oscillators in this
                              universe. So, frequency can be dilated or
                              contracted by controlling the ambient
                              physical parameter of the environment that
                              surrounds and INFLUENCES the oscillator.
                              The running time cannot be dilated or
                              contracted; even though Minkowsky
                              introduced this “dilation” concept. This
                              is the reason why I have been pushing for
                              the introduction in physics thinking the
                              Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology
                              (IPM-E). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt;color:windowtext">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <div>
                            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                              #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                                  General [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
                                    Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Baer<br>
                                  <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 19, 2018
                                  10:56 PM<br>
                                  <b>To:</b> <a
                                    href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
                                  Foundational questions Tension field
                                  stable particles</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p>Candra:<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"> Let’s
                            consider your tension filed is a medium
                            underlying the experience of space composed
                            of charge and mass density spread out in the
                            cross-section of a time loop.. Coordinate
                            frame cells of <i>small enough</i> sizes
                            can be described by constant enough mass and
                            charge densities in each cell. For small
                            enough cells the mass and charge values
                            concentrated at their centers may be used in
                            stead of the densities. The resulting field
                            of center values can take any pattern that
                            satisfies the extended dAlambert principle.
                            Besides the classic electro-magnetic Fem and
                            gravito-inertial force Fgi I postulate
                            forces tat hold charge and mass together
                            Fcm, Fmc. This condition assures mass charge
                            centers in each cell appear at locations of
                            balanced forces.  Each pattern which
                            satisfies this condition represents a static
                            state of the loop in which the patterns are
                            fixed for the lifetime of the loop.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>The Charge-Mass
                              Separation Vector and Equilibrium States</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">The
                            physical size of the space is its volume.
                            The  volume (Vol) of space is the sum of the
                            infinitesimal volumes dVol of  each of the
                            cells composing that space “Vol = ∫<sub>all
                              space</sub> dVol”. These infinitesimal
                            volumes are calculated from the mass-charge
                            density extensions in each cell when viewed
                            externally as shown in figure 4.3-3a . The
                            physical volume depends upon the mass charge
                            separation pattern of the equilibrium state
                            the system being modeled exists in. <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">            In CAT the
                            extension of a cell can be calculated as
                            follows. In each cell the distance between
                            the center of charge and mass is a vector d<b>ζ.</b>
                            The projection of this vector onto the
                            degrees of freedom directions available for
                            the charge and mass to move in the
                            generalized coordinate space allows us to
                            expansion this vector as,  <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Eq.
                            4.3-1                     <b>dζ =</b> dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙u<sub>t</sub></b>
                            + dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙u<sub>x</sub> </b>+ dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙u<sub>y</sub>
                            </b>+ dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙u<sub>z</sub> +…</b>
                            dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙u<sub>f</sub> +…,</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>            </b>where
                            the <b>u<sub>f</sub></b>’s are the unit
                            vectors. A space limited to Cartesian
                            3-space is characterized by three x,y,z
                            directions, but CAT models a generalized
                            space that encompasses all sensor modalities
                            not only the optical ones. <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">            The volume of
                            a cell calculated from the diagonal
                            expansion vector “<b>dζ”</b> by multiplying
                            all non zero coefficients,<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Eq.
                            4.3-2                     dVol =  dζ<sub>t</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>x</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>y</sub><b>∙</b>dζ<sub>z</sub><b>∙…∙</b>dζ<sub>f</sub><b>∙…
                              .</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">            The shape of
                            this volume is determined by the direction
                            of the expansion vector which in turn is
                            determined by the direction and strength of
                            forces pulling the charge and mass apart.
                            The direction of pull depends upon the
                            number of dimensions available in the
                            generalized coordinates of the media. The
                            forces must be in equilibrium but exact
                            equilibrium pattern depends upon which
                            global loop equilibrium state “Ζ” the event
                            being modeled is in. <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">            In the
                            simplest equilibrium state the masses and
                            charges are collocated. This implies the
                            internal forward propagating in time forces
                            F<sub>cm</sub>,F<sub>mc</sub>, and backward
                            propagating in time force F<sub>mc</sub>*,F<sub>cm</sub>*
                            are zero, and if there are no internal force
                            pulling the charges and masses together then
                            sum of the remaining exterior
                            gravito-electric forces pulling the charge
                            and mass apart must separately be zero
                            precisely at the collocation point. A
                            trivial condition that satisfies these
                            equations is when all forces are zero. In
                            this case there is no action in the media
                            and no action for expanding the coordinate
                            frame defining a volume of space. We are
                            back to a formless blob of zero volume,
                            where all charges and masses are at the same
                            point. This is the absolute ground state of
                            material, one level of something above
                            nothing.  The big bang before the energy of
                            action flow is added. <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter" />
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0" />
<v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0" />
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1" />
<v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2" />
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth" />
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight" />
<v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1" />
<v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2" />
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth" />
<v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0" />
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight" />
<v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0" />
</v:formulas>
<v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect" />
<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t" />
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='position:absolute;left:0;text-align:left;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:190.5pt;height:187.5pt;z-index:251658240;mso-wrap-distance-left:0;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;mso-wrap-distance-right:0;mso-wrap-distance-bottom:0;mso-position-horizontal:left;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;mso-position-vertical-relative:line' o:allowoverlap="f">
<v:imagedata src="mailbox:///C:/Users/AL/AppData/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/lthhzma2.default/Mail/pop3.strato-12.de/Inbox?number=6035&header=quotebody&part=1.1.2&filename=image001.gif" o:title="part1.89B7AF17.E7420CB4@a-giese" />
<w:wrap type="square"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><img
                              style="width:2.6458in;height:2.6041in"
                              src="cid:part12.1C7DC3E8.CB9C6F2E@a-giese.de"
                              v:shapes="_x0000_s1026" class=""
                              align="left" height="250" width="254"><!--[endif]-->To
                            exemplify the methods we consider an
                            equilibrium state of a single isolated cell
                            whose only degree of freedom is the time
                            direction. This means the volume in all
                            space directions are infinitesimally small
                            and the volume can be considered a single
                            line of extension “ΔVol = ΔT<sub>w</sub> =
                            ∫dζ<sub><span style="font-size:14.0pt">t</span></sub><span
                              style="font-size:14.0pt"> “ </span>along
                            the time direction as shown in the god’s eye
                            perspective of figure 4.3-6. In this
                            situation we can consider charges and masses
                            to be point particles. Forces as well as
                            action can only propagate along the material
                            length of the line time line represented in
                            space as “Qw”. We now list the sequence of
                            changes that can propagate through around
                            the equilibrium positions indicated by
                            numbers in parenthesis.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
                            level1 lfo2">
                            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                              style="mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span
                                style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                Roman"">  </span></span><!--[endif]-->The
                            upper charge is pushed from its equilibrium
                            position (filled icon) forward along the
                            time line<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
                            level1 lfo2">
                            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                              style="mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span
                                style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                Roman"">  </span></span><!--[endif]-->It
                            exerts a force “Fem” on the left charge
                            pushing it forward while feeling a reaction
                            force “Fem*” that retards it back to its
                            equilibrium position<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
                            level1 lfo2">
                            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                              style="mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span
                                style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                Roman"">  </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
                            the left charge is moved from equilibrium it
                            exerts an internal “Fcm” force on the bottom
                            mass while feeling a reaction force “Fcm*”
                            which  returns it to equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
                            level1 lfo2">
                            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                              style="mso-list:Ignore">(4)<span
                                style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                Roman"">  </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
                            the bottom mass is moved from equilibrium it
                            exerts a force “Fgi” on the right mass while
                            feeling a reaction force “Fgi*”  which
                            returns it to equilibrium.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
                            level1 lfo2">
                            <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                              style="mso-list:Ignore">(5)<span
                                style="font:7.0pt "Times New
                                Roman"">  </span></span><!--[endif]-->While
                            the right mass is moved from equilibrium it
                            exerts a force “Fmc” on the upper charge
                            while feeling a reaction force “Fmc*”  which
                            returns it to equilibrium. We are now back
                            to (1).<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">If
                            the system is isolated there is no
                            dissipation into other degrees of freedom
                            and the oscillation continues to move as a
                            compression wave around the “Qw” time line
                            circumference forever. The graph however is
                            static and shows a fixed amount of action
                            indicated by the shaded arrows around the
                            time line. Motion in “block” models is
                            produced by the velocity of the observer or
                            model operator as he moves around the time
                            line. From our god’s eye perspective an
                            action density is permanently painted on the
                            clock dial and thereby describes an total
                            event. The last degree of freedom events are
                            rather trivial    <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">            We need a
                            geometry in which both space and time are
                            curved back on themselves to provide a donut
                            in which the forces Fem, Fgi, Fcm,Fmc are
                            self contained eigen states at each action
                            quanta. <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Does any of this suggest
                            a tension field you might be thinking
                            about??<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">On 1/24/2018 7:20 PM,
                              Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote
                            style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <p class="MsoNormal">1. Yes, I have
                              submitted an essay. FQXi has not sent the
                              approval link yet. <o:p></o:p></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">2. Replacement of our
                                SPIE conf. Without a supporting
                                infrastructure to replace SPIE-like
                                support, it is very difficult to manage.
                                I will try NSF during the last week of
                                May. Do you want to start negotiating
                                with some out-of-box European groups? <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">3. Re-starting afresh
                                from the bottom up is the only way to
                                start re-building a unified field
                                theory. It is futile to force-fit whole
                                bunch of different theories that were
                                structured differently at different
                                states of human cultural epoch.<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                              <div id="AppleMailSignature">
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                                  On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:08 PM, Wolfgang
                                  Baer <<a
                                    href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>>
                                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote
                                style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                <div>
                                  <p>Chandra:<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <p>Just rereading your 2015 paper
                                    "Urgency of evolution..."<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <p>I love the sentiment " This is a
                                    good time to start iteratively
                                    re-evaluating and restructuring all
                                    the foundational postulates behind
                                    all the working theories"<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <p>Did you write a paper for FQXi?<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <p>I sent one in  <a
                                      href="https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3043</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Is there any chance to get a replacement for the SPIE conference, one that would expand the questions </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">beyond the nature of light?</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Wolf</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>E-mail <a href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" moz-do-not-send="true">wolf@NascentInc.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                </div>
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                                style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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