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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi Al<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>We do not have to assume <u>instantaneous</u> interaction to simply explain what we observe, all we have to do is start with space which is a CTF as Chandra calls it. The EM waves we are able to measure mimic, of course, the properties of a transverse wave in an elastic solid. But any medium which can support transverse waves <i>must also be able to support longitudinal displacement</i>. And in any medium the velocity of longitudinal displacement is <i>greater than the velocity of transverse waves</i>. If the velocity of longitudinal displacement of space is very much faster than the velocity of transverse waves in space, then some forces and interactions would seem (almost) instantaneous in the laboratory frame (and if that longitudinal displacement velocity is fast enough, the forces could seem almost instantaneous in practically any frame).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>With such a model, we are able to reproduce the observed phenomena, we are able to duplicate the exact behaviors of double slit experiments, we are able to show why the electric (Coulomb) force vectors point at or very near the instantaneous particle location, and we are able to understand how gravity does the same. Not surprisingly we are also able to show that a particle wavefunction will collapse almost instantaneously and the particle’s energy will be sensed at one location. This sort of model suggests that we will encounter what we observe to be non-local phenomena, for in such a model, a particle is a non-local entity, with a center of energy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>We have discussed many different approaches in this forum. But in general, as our physics knowledge stands now, based on Einstein’s SR and Copenhagen-like interpretations, we are far from a realistic picture which explains all of what we observe.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The simplest solution is a cause and effect model which begins with space as a fixed frame, a medium which is friction and inertia free, and considers the displacements required in such a medium to cause what we observe. Then, once we take that view, the pieces of the puzzle begin to fall in place. And they fit very easily, and model what we observe quite precisely.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hope you will take a look at this approach. I think you may be surprised and delighted by what you discover.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>af.kracklauer@web.de<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Velocity of gravitation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Chip:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>As a convinced proponent of the error in QM (as first discovered by Edwin Jaynes) I cannot accept any explnation of instantanious interaction in terms of "wave function collapse." Bell's "Theorem" is simply wrong, and all similar work contains the same error. Entanglement is just correlation from a prior cause. No hokus-pokus! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Further, I see no reason a wrench has to arrise by delayed Coulomb-type intereaction. Again, it seems the error here is the association of the wrong source-sink pairs. The direction of such interaction does not point to a position on a presumed past location in that the source is not moving relative to the sink in a straight line. There are intertwined spirals, which are stable. [The calculation of the involved force for the mutual circulation would also have to include the gravitational BXv (magnetic like) term, which I doubt has been done; correctly at least. See O. D. Jefimenko.]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Sorry, I just find much easier to beleive that mistakes were made than that instantanioua interaction makes sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>---Al<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space' name=quote><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2019 um 14:21 Uhr<br><b>Von:</b> "Chip Akins" <</span><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>An:</b> "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'" <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Velocity of gravitation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div name=quoted-content><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Hi Al</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Sorry Al, I should have used the term binary star instead of pulsar.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>We have experimental and physical evidence for <i>almost</i> instantaneous action, (the orbits of binary stars, wavefunction collapse, and the measured “velocity” of the Coulomb field, entanglement). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>The question is not whether this (almost) instantaneous action exists, but rather, what causes it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>If gravity were a field which updates at the velocity c, then the idea is that the motion of the stars would cause the direction of gravity (the gravity vector) to point toward where the other star was in d/c time earlier, and not at the instantaneous center of the other star. But it seems that in all cases, the gravitational and electric field vectors of stationary or moving objects point toward the center of the object, regardless of distance or velocity.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Therefore my conclusion is that the gravitational field is updated <i>practically</i> instantaneously.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Chip</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b></span><a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>af.kracklauer@web.de</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 12, 2019 1:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Velocity of gravitation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Chip:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>When "studying" the orbital decay of pulsars, it seems to me that an increse in the decay implies a change (presumably over and above that caused by escaping radiation) in the angular momentum or else directionally altered attaction between the two or whatever. Where whould the energy thereto come from or go to. What are you assuming so as to get the dissipative wrench action on the pair for delayed ineteraction but not there for instantanious interaction? How can whateveritis be justififed? Is the effect you propose seen in binary stars too? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I can imagine that each just sees a weaker pull together through and towards the center of mass. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>BTW, as I see it, there are no such THINGS as fields (or photons/gravitons/aether etc.). These concepts are models that help associate a force with human experience. All that is actually known is captured with just Coulomb's (Gauss's) Law. All the rest is baggage.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>----Al</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt'><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> Dienstag, 12. Februar 2019 um 15:29 Uhr<br><b>Von:</b> "Chip Akins" <</span><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>An:</b> "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'" <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Velocity of gravitation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Hi Al</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>If we study the orbital decay of pulsars we can see two large massive objects with gravitational fields, co-orbiting.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>In this circumstance the gravitational field is not a stationary field.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>However, in this circumstance it is clear that the instantaneous force vector of gravity must point toward the instantaneous position of the masses or the orbits would decay MUCH faster than observed. So gravity cannot be a retarded force, the field itself must either have a distorted shape due to motion, or it must be instantaneous.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>I have run the requisite math to determine if a quantifiable rule could exist which causes field distortion which would create the appropriate force vectors. And there is no solution for distortion with motion which holds in all circumstances.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Therefore my conclusion is that the gravitational field is updated practically instantaneously.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Chip Akins</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b></span><a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>af.kracklauer@web.de</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>; Wolfgang Baer <</span><a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>wolf@nascentinc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Velocity of gravitation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Albrecht:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>It helps some; but....</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>For my part, it seems to me that for sufficiently symmetric conditions (a planet's essentially circular orbit about the sun, say) that a planet cannot distinguish between running into a gravitational field at a point, x say, where the gravitational field is at the moment of the planet's arrival at x that ommited 8 min earlier and sun-directed, or one emmited instantainiously 0 min earlier. They would appear to the planet to be the same. Thus, I doubt the argument that delayed gravitational interaction would execute an orbit destroying torque, which in my mind matches up the wrong source and sink events and doesn't make geometric sense. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>What I suspect is that gravitation is a residue of the electromagnetic intereaction (via a delayed Coulomb's Law) ultimately caused by the discrepancy in the weights of the positive and negative charge carriers and thus their random motion and distribution about each other. This would nicely explain why the speed of gravity is (should be) exactly the speed of light. While I can't prove it, I imagine that if either speed were instantanious/infinite, that the universe would lock up so that there would be no motion at all. That is, delay makes for dynamcis. [for what it's worth, maybe nothing!]</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>ciao, Al</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt'><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> Montag, 11. Februar 2019 um 21:18 Uhr<br><b>Von:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <</span><a href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>phys@a-giese.de</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>An:</b> "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'" <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>>, "Wolfgang Baer" <</span><a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>wolf@nascentinc.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>><br><b>Betreff:</b> [General] Velocity of gravitation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Wolf, hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>some time ago we had a discussion here about gravity. In particular about the question whether the propagation speed of the gravitational field is <b>c</b> or infinite. The problem behind is the fact that a finite propagation speed of gravity should cause rotating pairs of stars to permanently increase their speed, because the other star appears at a retarded position and so the force between the stars should have a tangential component. Our discussion ended at that time with the result that the Liénard-Wiechert potential would solve the problem.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>This was not very satisfying because the Liénard-Wiechert formalism is only about the field at a retarded time, and this description by itself does not solve this problem. I found that the solution is a completely different phenomenon. It is the fact (and as such well known in the physical literature) that fields like the electric field and also the gravitational field (our case) never show aberration. This is – according to literature – a well-known fact which is also theoretically well understood. But most are not aware of it, like me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>Experimentally it can in the case of the electrical field be proven in the laboratory. And the motion of stars show it for the gravitational case.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>Do you feel that this helps?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></p><p style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=58 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=473 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Virenfrei. </span><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at </span><a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>af.kracklauer@web.de</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Click here to unsubscribe </span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at </span><a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>af.kracklauer@web.de</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Click here to unsubscribe </span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at </span><a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>af.kracklauer@web.de</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Click here to unsubscribe </span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>