[General] Attack on Virtual Phonon Force Carriers

Tue Apr 21 20:49:32 PDT 2015

Dear John M,

A couple comments below.

Andrew
_ _ _
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:18 AM, John Macken <john at macken.com> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
>
>
> I am going to defend the position that an electron’s electric and
> gravitational fields are caused by waves in spacetime and not by virtual
> photons and gravitons.  I also will support the claim that the
> “mathematical radius” of an electron is equal to the electron’s reduced
> Compton wavelength *λ*c = ħ/mc ≈ 3.86x10‑13 m. The first step in this
> proof is to calculate the gravitational force Fg and electrostatic force F
> E between two of the same particles separated by their single loop radius
> (r = *λ*c = ħ/mc).  The claim is that this is the natural unit of length
> for a particle and the forces should scale as a fundamental function of the
> particle’s radius.  This distance is the transition where quantum mechanics
> becomes dominant so an actual experiment at this distance is unrealistic.
> However, it is possible to calculate the forces at this important distance
> using the Newtonian gravitational equation and the Coulomb law equation.
>
>
>
> The first calculation will not be for an electron, but the more general
> case of two of the same mass (m1 = m2) particles, each particle with
> Planck charge *q*p rather than elementary charge *e*.  This charge is
> chosen because Planck charge has a coupling constant of 1 while elementary
> charge *e* has a coupling constant of alpha α ≈ 1/137.   Planck charge is
> about 11.7 times ( times) larger than charge* e*.  Later we will convert
> this to charge *e* for comparison. When Planck charge is assumed, then
> the symbol used for electrostatic force will be *F*E.  Besides using
> Planck charge, we will also express these forces using natural
> dimensionless Planck units which will be designated by an underline.  For
> example, *F*g = *F*g/*F*p where *F*p = *c*4/*G* ≈1.2x1044 J.  Also the
> particle’s internal energy (*E*i = *moc*2)   in dimensionless Planck
> units of energy is  *E*i = *E*i/*E*p where *E*p is Planck energy *E*p = ≈
> 1.96x109 J.
>
>
>
> *F*g = = = Gm2 =
>
> *F**E* = = = (ħc) =
>
> *E*i = = =
>
> Therefore:
>
> *F*g =* F**E*2 =* E*i*4*
>
>
>
> This is an amazing result that needs to be stated in words.  We assume two
> particles with equal mass (*m*1 = *m*2).  Also, both hypothetical
> particles have Planck charge.  They are separated by a distance equal to
> the particle’s reduced Compton wavelength r = *λ*c.  Then, when
> *dimensionless* natural Planck units are used, the gravitational force
> equals the square of the electrostatic force and the fourth power of the
> particle’s energy. Notice that this relationship only holds if the
> separation distance is equal to the single loop radius.  If a double loop
> design is chosen, then separating the two particles by their radius
> shortens the separation distance to *r* = *λ*c/2 and the equation
> becomes:   *F*g = *F**E*2/4 = 4*E*i*4*.
>

>
> Next we will express the force relationship for the conditions stated
> without using dimensionless Planck units (no underline).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The ratio of the gravitational force divided by the electrostatic force
> equals the ratio of the electrostatic force divided by Planck force.
> Another way of visualizing this is to imagine representing these forces on
> a log scale.  One end of this scale will represent the largest possible
> force which is Planck force.  The opposite end of this log scale will
> represents the weakest force between these two particles which is the
> gravitational force.  Now, on this log scale, where do you think that the
> electrostatic force needs to be placed?  The answer is exactly midway
> between these two extremes on this log scale.  If the double loop radius is
> chosen for the separation distance, then this relationship would not hold.
>
>
>
> Now suppose that we want to express these relationships at arbitrary
> separation distance.  The way to keep a connection to the particle’s single
> loop radius is to express the separation distance *r* as the number (*N*)
> of reduced Compton wavelengths therefore *N* =  *r*/*λ*c. The equation* F*
> g =* F**E*2 =* E*i*4* becomes:
>
> *F*g*N*2 = (*F**E**N2*)2 =* E*i*4*
>
>
>
> Note the square relationship between forces is retained.  Again, this only
> works if we assume that *N* is defined by the single loop radius, not the
> double loop radius.  Finally, we can convert all these force equations to
> charge *e* by substituting *F*E = *F*e/*α*  where *F*e is the
> electrostatic force between two particles with elementary charge *e*
> rather than the Planck charge force *F*E.  The various conversions will
> not be made here, but another interesting equation utilizing *N* and
> charge *e*  that works directly with electrons is:
>
> *F*g*F*p = (*F*e*N2*/α)2
>
>
>
> Much of this is explained in more detail in the “foundation paper”.
> However, now I want to return to my contention that the electrostatic and
> gravitational forces are not transferred by messenger particles such as
> virtual photons and gravitons.  Virtual photons *do* exist and have a
> wave-based explanation.  They just do not transfer the electrostatic
> force.  These equations were first derived from a purely wave-based
> analysis which *predicted* that there should be this square relationship
> between the electrostatic and gravitational force.  These equations are all
> logically derived from the spacetime-based model of the universe.  I
> believe that these equations and other equations in the “Foundation” paper
> are incompatible with virtual photons and gravitons being force messenger
> particles.  If you believe otherwise, please suggest a model of virtual
> photons and gravitons which is compatible with these equations.  If there
> is no logical connection, then force explanations based on virtual photons
> and gravitons must be wrong.
>

Messenger particles are QM 'jargon'. If you recognize (most people do not)
that this is simply a means of QM's usurping useful classical physics
processes (virtual photons are classical evanescent waves), then the
concept has a rational basis. I would propose that the infinite-range
evanescent wave (which intensity decays at a rate dependent on the source
geometry) is a unique structure created by light traveling along a *g*radient
*r*efractive-*in*dex. This GRIN results in self-focusing (or total internal
reflection) of light that produces the self-generated 'light-pipe' and EM
soliton called a photon. The same process allows a spherically confined
photon to produce the uniform 'charge wave' basic to the electron and
positron.

I agree with you that gravity is only the second-order effect of the charge
and physically appears as the residue of immense numbers of balanced
charges. I don't know if  vibration of this field can cause evanescent
waves and its propagation speed in space. I doubt if it is quantized at
anything less than stellar size (assuming that it can form a solitonic
structure).

If your model of gravity being the square of the electrostatic force is
valid, then is it possible that, at nuclear distances, it is even larger
than the *E*-field and perhaps becomes the strong nuclear forces?

>
>
> Here is another flaw in the concept that a cloud of virtual photons are
> responsible for an electron’s electric field.  Here is a logical syllogism.
>
> 1)    Virtual particles come into existence and go out of existence in a
> time so short that there is no violation of the conservation of energy as
> modified by the uncertainty principle.  (ΔEΔt = ½ ħ). In other words,
> virtual photons can never produce measurable energy.
>
> 2)    Electric fields have energy density which can be experimentally
> measured.
>
> 3)    Therefore, electric fields cannot be created by a cloud of virtual
> photons.
>
But, the *E*-fields *can* be the steady-state evanescent waves from a bound
photon.

>
>
> Finally, I want to point out that even the standard model considers that
> spacetime is filled with fields.  The 17 named particles in the standard
> model are considered to be “excitations” in the 17 overlapping fields that
> exist in the vacuum.  These fields all have large energy density.  For
> example, the Higgs field has been calculated to have energy density of
> about 1046 J/m3. QED and QCD require even higher energy densities in the
> vacuum.  Zero point energy has harmonic oscillators, each with energy E = ½
> ħω and each harmonic oscillator occupies a volume V of: V = k*λ*3 = kc3/ω3.
> If the maximum angular frequency is Planck frequency, then the implied
> energy density is approximately Planck energy density ≈ 10113 J/m3.  I
> have proposed a single field (the spacetime field) with resonances to
> replace the 17 fields of the standard model.  This single “spacetime field”
> has been quantified and forms the basis of my model of the universe.
>
>
>
> John M.
>
>
>
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