[General] Conference workshop topics

Sun Mar 29 02:42:35 PDT 2015

Dear All,

Richard has jumped ahead and stated positions rather than topics. However,
based on the topics already identified, we can attempt to put his positions
into topics. Most can be placed under a union of Chip's topics 3 & 5, which
becomes "the properties and structure of photons and electrons." This is
easier than trying to identify and to reduce the number of topics from
Richard's *positions*. As expected, any set of positions will cover many
topics and any one position may cover more than one topic.

David Mathes has phrased his topics in a series of excellent questions.
(And thank you for the arXiv reference.) This is a good approach for the
second level, once we have established the main topics. The process must
never be 'set in stone' and we'll learn at each stage.

As we progress, I hope that we can combine some topics to fit our specific
purpose and to eliminate others as being out of range, unnecessary for this
work, or not controversial. I doubt that we'll be able to eliminate many.
We are more likely to simply resolve to come back to them at a later date.

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Chandra, Andrew, John W, Martin, Vivian, Chip and others
> Here is my list of points for the Summary meeting. I am looking for
> commonalities in our approaches to modeling the electron by a double-looped
> photon. I hope we can agree on the way that the photon's energy, frequency
> and wavelength change in a relativistically moving electron. I've explained
> why I think the charged photon composing the electron should have spin 1/2
> hbar at all electron velocities. I've numbered the points for ease of
> reference. I've also attached the below notes as a Word file
>
> March 28, 2015
>
> Richard Gauthier: Possible points for Discussion in Summary Meeting -SPIE
> conference.
>
>
>
> A key idea in the following is that a relativistic double-loop-photon
> electron model (and also a single-loop-photon electron model) has a
> wavelength of lambda = h/(gamma mc) - as compared with the Compton
> wavelength h/mc for a resting electron) which leads easily to the de
> Broglie wavelength h/(gamma mv). I would like to know which other
> double-looped models of the electron have this feature or not, or how their
> circulating photon's frequency and wavelength for a resting electron varies
> with electron speed.
>
>
>
> A second key idea is that the photon composing the electron must have spin
> 1/2 hbar both at highly relativistic electron velocities as well as when
> composing an electron at rest or at low velocities.  Double-loop-photon
> electron modelers should determine whether their circulating photons can
> have spin 1/2 hbar for all electron velocities.
>
>
>
> Based on: "The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie
> wavelength" article at
> https://www.academia.edu/10740682/The_Electron_is_a_Charged_Photon_with_the_de_Broglie_Wavelength
>
>
>
> *1. Dirac claimed (based on the Dirac equation) that the electron travels
> at light speed (which is not observable for an electron due to its high
> frequency and small amplitude) but that the electron's observable speed is
> less than light speed.
>
>
>
> *2. Analyses of the Dirac equation suggest that the electron's charge
> travels helically at light speed (Hestenes, Rivas) with a helical radius at
> slow speeds of hbar/2mc .
>
>
>
> *3. The de Broglie relationship for the total energy of relativistically
> moving electron is Etotal = gamma mc^2= hf . This suggests (to RG) that the
> electron is a charged photon with total energy Etotal = gamma mc^2 = hf
> and  frequency f=gamma mc^2/h .
>
>
>
> *4. The wavelength of this charged photon for a relativistically moving
> electron is given by L=c/f =h/(gamma mc). This photon wavelength associated
> with a relativistic electron was apparently overlooked since de Broglie's
> 1924 hypothesis of matter-waves having the de Broglie wavelength, which
> formed the basis of the Schrodinger equation.
>
>
>
> *5. A circulating charged photon with this frequency and wavelength could
> be Dirac's electron that travels at light speed with a small amplitude and
> high frequency and whose longitudinal velocity is the measured velocity of
> the electron. Quantitative modeling of the charged photon's helical
> trajectory by RG supports this result.
>
>
>
> *6. In this model of the electron, Dirac's zitterbewegung motion of an
> electron corresponds to a double-looping of this charged photon's
> wavelength around the longitudinal axis of a moving electron (or
> corresponds to a double-looping of the photon's wavelength in a circle, for
> a resting electron.)
>
>
>
> *7. The wavelength  h/(gamma mc) of this charged circulating photon
> easily yields the de Broglie wavelength of the electron h/(gamma mv) along
> the longitudinal axis of the circulating photon.
>
>
>
> *8. The relativistic energy-momentum equation for an electron E^2 = p^2
> c^2 +m^2 c^4 can be transformed into a Pythagorean relationship among the
> total momentum vector gamma mc of this circulating charged photon, the
> longitudinal component  of the charged photon's momentum (which is the
> momentum p of the moving electron) and the transverse component mc of its
> momentum which, combined wit the radius hbar/2mc of the helix for a slow
> moving electron,  yields the spin-up and spin-down states of a slow moving
> electron.
>
>
>
> *9. The radius of the helix of the helically circulating charged photon
> corresponding to  an electron is found to decrease as 1/(gamma^2) as the
> velocity of the electron increases. This result only assumes the photon
> properties c=Lf , E=hf and p=h/L and that the charged photon moves
> helically perpendicular to the plane of the motion of a charged photon in a
> resting electron.
>
>
>
> *10. Since an electron at highly relativistic velocities retains the spin
> 1/2 hbar that it has at low velocities, the photon that composes the electron
> must also have spin 1/2 hbar when the electron is moving highly
> relativistically, since then  the circulating photon's helical axis is
> nearly a straight line, nearly matching the straight-line trajectory of a
> spin 1 hbar photon. If the charged photon composing the electron is not to
> change its spin  1/2 hbar when the electron is moving non-relativistically or
> even is at rest, the photon composing the electron must have spin 1/2 hbar
> when composing a non-relativistic electron also.
>
>
> *11.The above summary suggested that the electron, which has previously
> considered to be a particle with mass and spin 1/2 hbar and wave-like
> properties, may be better described as a helically circulating charged
> photon with spin 1/2 hbar.
>
>
> On Mar 28, 2015, at 8:52 PM, Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Folks,
>
> The 1st responses (below) indicate the enormity of the task we have before
> us. They also indicate why individually we can make little impact on the
> subject. We will have to severely limit ourselves. However, in the process
> we will have to identify, make, and agree on basic assumptions. This will
> be almost the same as having a workshop on each of the topics.
>
> We will not be able to start at the beginning. However, we can start with
> the photons and their nature, the topic of this conference series. Much has
> been discussed and learned over the last decade. Let us try to consolidate
> that into a foundation. A lot more is known about the electron, but there
> are still many missing pieces. We are trying to build a bridge between the
> two structures. Nevertheless, it may be the 'knowns' that will cause us
> more trouble than the unknowns.
>
> In building up an outline of the topic possibilities, before we downsize
> to a manageable few, let us try to expand the subtopics and see where they
> overlap, and perhaps lead us to fuse some of them.
>
> Andrew
>
> *The starting list for Conference workshop on *
> "Are electrons oscillating photons or oscillations of the vacuum itself?"
>
> *From Chip Akins:*
>
> 1.      The nature of time
>
> 2.      The nature of space
>
> 3.      The properties and structure for photons.
>
> 4.      The speed of light
>
> 5.      The properties and structure of an electron.
>
> 6.      Confinement of a photon to create an electron
>
> 7.      Particle Spin
>
> 8.      Entanglement, Pilot waves, hidden variable theory with
> non-commuting variables,
> 9.      Pair production, electrons from photons, annihilation, photons
> from electrons.
>
> *From David Mathes:*
>
> 1. What is the cause of oscillation?
>
> 2. What's oscillating in spacetime, vacuum, photon or electron?
>
> 3. Is there more than one oscillation? If so, are they nested?
>
> 4. How are these oscillations coupled?  Under what conditions are they
> coupled rather closely, somewhat loosely or not at all?
>
> 5. Is there a negative vacuum, and if so, are there quantum numbers for a
> negative vacuum?
>
> 6. Under what conditions does impedance vary or better yet, go to zero?
>
> 7. Is there a 6D electron? Specifically, does adding 2 or 3 more
> dimensions make sense?
>
> 8. How and why does nature create a double loop in the electron models?
> How do we?
>
> 9. Does the photon have quantum numbers?
>
> 10. Are we confined to U(1) electron architectures or should conditioned
> EM using U(1) X SU(2) X SU3) and higher orders of conditioned photons and
> electrons be considered?
>
> 11. Does c, G or h vary in the model?
>
> 12. What is charge and how do we create charge?
>
> 13. Is view of the 2013 NIST verification of BEC-zitterbewegung, what
> further experiments should be proposed?
> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1303.0914.pdf
>
> *A generalized hierarchy approach*
> The Void
> Spacetime
> vacuum (negative to v-0)
> quanta (may be sub elementary energy)
> photons
> other bosons
> quarks
> electrons
> atoms
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
> and Particles General Discussion List at richgauthier at gmail.com
> <a href="
> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
> ">
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light
> and Particles General Discussion List at mules333 at gmail.com
> <a href="
> http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1
> ">
> Click here to unsubscribe
> </a>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/pipermail/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/attachments/20150329/83409c2e/attachment.htm>