[General] Electron

Mon May 11 00:20:44 PDT 2015

Chip:

Thanks for the work so far on this. It sounds like it's amazingly difficult
to simulate something so simple. I'm not sure what to suggest, other than
where the wave is, space is curved. So another wave going over it follows a
curved path.  

Maybe the surface is a problem, but maybe there's an opportunity there. You
know there's a wave gif on Wikipedia, see this
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deep_water_wave.gif>  and this
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_wave>  . If you could emulate that but
with the wave going round a waterworld, then when you make the circumference
smaller, you should get to a point where the rotational motion of the wave
matches the rotational motion of the red-dot test particles. That might be
interesting.  

Regards

John D

From: General
[mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpar
ticles.org] On Behalf Of Chip Akins
Sent: 10 May 2015 13:47
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron

Hi John D

There is some computational difficulty in modeling the waves as you have
requested, but I have not given up.  We can do this but it is taking more
time than I had imagined.

I am able to model a confined wave and provide a surface plot.

And then I am able to rotate a wave to be from a different direction (using
quaternion rotation), and add it to the surface plot.

The problem is that the second wave is not traveling through disturbed space
yet in my model, but rather is like the first, traveling through undisturbed
space.  When space is disturbed, the second wave must travel farther than
the first due to the disturbances, which may cause the effects you have
mentioned.  Now I have to realistically quantify the amount of displacement
in space caused by the first wave in order to recalculate the second wave
with accurate displacement effects.

This initial simulation is assuming a first wave which is already present
and a second wave then impinging upon the first. Later we can get into
simultaneous wave interaction.

A surface plot has an x and y location and a magnitude in this model.  I now
need to recalculate the magnitude values based on the propagation of the
second wave over the first, and sum the magnitudes which occur as this
result.  This grid is 720 X 720 in x and y.  The first wave velocity is c
through flat space (so c in the x, y plane), the second wave velocity will
be c through the disturbances caused by the first wave (so c in the x, y,
plane plus the disturbance in the z direction).

Any clever insights or suggestions are welcome.

Chip

From: General
[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org] On Behalf Of John Duffield
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:36 PM
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron

Chip:

Yes, I do envisage a 3D model. I was thinking a 2D model would be simple
place to start, and didn't want to be too demanding.   

I wasn't proposing that the two waves diffract one another, but instead
displace one another. Light is displacement current, see Taming light at the
nanoscale
<http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/olive/ode/physicsworld/LandingPage/LandingPage.a
spx?href=UEhZU1dvZGUvMjAxMC8wOS8wMQ..&pageno=MzM.&entity=QXIwMzMwMA..&view=Z
W50aXR5> . Think of a big oceanic swell wave, then mentally freeze it. Then
send an ordinary ocean wave towards it. The latter rides up the swell wave.
In doing this, it changes direction. It is displaced. Once it gets to the
top it goes  down the other side and continues on its way as if nothing
happened, so you might think the two waves didn't interact. But they did.
One wave changed the direction of the other. Do this with two 511keV
electromagnetic waves and each is displaced into itself, and then displaces
its own path into a closed path, forever. In terms of an experiment see
gamma-gamma pair production
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-photon_physics>  and the Breit-Wheeler
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breit%E2%80%93Wheeler_process>  process, which
was done indirectly at SLAC in 1997. There is no magic to this, the only
tool in the box is light, and angular momentum is conserved. 

For background reading check out Maxwell and displacement current
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_current#History_and_interpretatio
n>  wherein "light consist of transverse undulations", along with Percy
Hammond
<http://www.compumag.org/jsite/images/stories/newsletter/ICS-99-06-2-Hammond
.pdf>  who said "we conclude that the field describes the curvature that
characterizes the electromagnetic interaction". People think a gravity is
all about curved space, but it isn't, it's all about  inhomogeneous space.
So what's curved space all about? Electromagnetism! Check out
electromagnetic geometry
<https://www.google.co.uk/#q=electromagnetic+geometry&spell=1> . In an
electromagnetic wave the curvature goes one way then the other, like my grid
picture of potential. But when the wave goes round a tight twisted double
loop, you end up with an all-round curvature, one way or the other. It's
chiral, in 3D, but we can come on to that. 

Regards

John D

From: General
[mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpar
ticles.org] On Behalf Of Chip Akins
Sent: 30 April 2015 14:18
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron

Hi John D

Do you envision a 3D model which is a 3D grid of space with your prescribed
wave propagating through the 3D mesh? Or are you suggesting a 2D wave
representation?

Are you proposing that two EM waves interact to diffract each other?  Has
this ever been seen in experiment?

I suspect that a strong source of angular momentum must also be present in
order to catalyze electron-positron pair production (like when gamma rays
strike an atomic nucleus).  So I think this means the waves will otherwise
just pass through each other and the conditions for confinement will not
exist, absent this additional source of angular momentum.

Chip

From: General
[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org] On Behalf Of John Duffield
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:12 AM
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron

Martin:

No probs re mass and gravity. It's good to talk. And if there was never any
confusion, and we all agreed about everything, whatever would we talk about?

David:

I don't have any issues with the horn torus or spindle-sphere torus. In a
previous email I've referred to "inflating" the ring torus through these
stages. See Adrian Rossiter's
<http://www.antiprism.com/album/860_tori/index.html> antiprism for torus
animations. See Martin's picture below? Look at the cut end, it's a bit like
a slice of onion. Mentally add more onion rings around those that are
already there, and the torus gets more and more spherical.  

There is no charge at the centre. The charge is the twist, the winding, the
knottedness, the vorticity. Undo it with the opposite twist, and instead of
two field variations going round at c looking like standing fieldall, you've
got two field variations moving linearly at c.

Chip:

Is there any chance you could animate a wave in space, like this?

It's a bit like a wave in a rubber mat, or a seismic wave. Only this is a
wave of electromagnetic four-potential. The spatial derivative of this gives
the sinusoidal electric waveform, and the time-derivative gives the
sinusoidal magnetic waveform. See the horizontal lines? Where the tilt is
steepest the electric sine wave is highest. Where the tilting is fastest is
where the magnetic sine wave is highest. Look at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation> electromagnetic
radiation on Wiki. Read the
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation#Derivation_from_elec
tromagnetic_theory> Derivation From Electromagnetic Theory section, and
you'll see this: "the curl operator on one side of these equations results
in first-order spatial derivatives of the wave solution, while the
time-derivative on the other side of the equations, which gives the other
field, is first order in time".  After that I'd be very interested in an
animation where two such waves pass each other and displace each other's
path, so much so that each wave ends up moving through itself. 

Regards

John D

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