[General] positions
Richard Gauthier
richgauthier at gmail.com
Thu May 14 21:56:04 PDT 2015
To all: I just heard about a 1-day free conference called “Focus on Light” at the University of Bristol, commemorating the International Year of Light 2015 on Friday June 15. Info at http://www.bristol.ac.uk/physics/public-engagement/focus-on-light/ <http://www.bristol.ac.uk/physics/public-engagement/focus-on-light/>
Andrew,
Thanks for your further questions. I think that some of them will be answered in my article “The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength”, “The charged-photon model of the electron fits the Schrodinger equation” and “The charged-photon model of the electron, the de Broglie wavelength and a new interpretation of quantum mechanics” at my academia.edu <http://academia.edu/> publications site at https://santarosa.academia.edu/RichardGauthier <https://santarosa.academia.edu/RichardGauthier> . But I will also try to answer your specific questions below.
> On May 14, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> I'm not trying to be argumentative; but, I do want to get more specific.
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier at gmail.com <mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Andrew,
> Thank your for your reply and questions.
> 1. The size of the charged photon depends on one’s model of the photon. My relativistic model describes the trajectory of the charged photon but this trajectory could fit different photon models.
>
> I believe you stated that your model is the trajectory, not dependent on either particle or wave models. Thus, the charged photon could either be on the order of the electron Compton radius or a micron long ?
Yes, though I tend to lead towards the latter view. In a resting electron the charged photon (I’m assuming that the circulating photon composing an electron has the electron’s charge) circles twice for one Compton wavelength and then appears to join itself in phase with itself. But in a moving electron (or for a resting electron seen by a moving observer) the charged photon’s path would be helical, not circular and I don’t think that the photon moving helically would be just one Compton wavelength long. Since it’s the same charged photon, just viewed from a different reference frame, I don’t think the charged photon circulating in the resting electron would be only one Compton wavelength long either.
>
> 2. The trajectory of the charged photon is helical. So the charged photon’s energy density could move along the same helical trajectory. Again, it would depend on the particular model of the charged photon.
>
> Is the charged photon a dipole (a double helix?), to maintain 'balance' along its trajectory, or is the distortion of space sufficient to restore and balance the displacement and centrifugal force of the helical motion?
The charged photon is not a double helix. The charged photon moves along a single helical trajectory. I think this helical trajectory (circular in the case of a resting electron), the electric charge, the charged photon’s proposed spin 1/2 hbar and the possible distortion of space in a charged photon’s helical trajectory are all related. I think an uncharged photon, still having spin 1 hbar, could be related to a different distortion of space.
>
> 3. The average orbital path would be linear through or past the nucleus. The charged photon would circulate helically around its average path through the atom. The de Broglie wavelength is generated along the longitudinal direction of motion of the helically circulating charged photon, and that longitudinal direction passes through the nucleus.
>
> How do you calculate the deBroglie wavelength of the charged photon? As if it were a massive particle or a photon? Does the charged photon have a unique mass equivalence and a rest energy?
This is explained in my first charged-photon article. The charged photon of a free electron moves helically with energy E=gamma mc^2. The corresponding wavelength of this charged photon is lambda = h/(gamma mc) which is not the de Broglie wavelength but the unobserved or hidden wavelength of a relativistically moving electron. The charged photon is proposed to generate a plane wave along the direction of its motion along its helical trajectory. The wave fronts of this plane wave continually intersect the longitudinal or forward direction of the circulating charged photon, generating the electron's de Broglie wavelength h/(gamma mv) and the electron's phase velocity c^2/v along this longitudinal direction, along with generating the electron’s quantum mechanical wave function which is also defined along the longitudinal direction of the helically circulating charged photon. This longitudinal direction is the path of the electron which is actually the circulating charged photon. So the wave vector k of the circulating charged photon has a k-component along the longitudinal direction, and it is this longitudinal k-component that corresponds to the de Broglie wavelength generated by the helically circulating charged photon. Within an atom the same helical motion and generation of the de Broglie wavelength of a charged photon is assumed to also apply, but the helical motion now varies with the charged photon’s (electron’s) kinetic energy and momentum in the atom. The charged photon has the same ‘rest mass’ as the electron since it is proposed to ‘be’ the electron. A charged photon is “allowed” to have rest mass which an uncharged photon doesn’t have (unless confined in a box). The charged photon’s energy and momentum are described by the relativistic energy-momentum equation for the electron: E^2 = p^2 c^2 = m^2 c^4, but now E is the total energy gamma mc^2 of the charged photon (electron) and p = gamma mv is the component of the charged photon’s (electron’s) momentum in the longitudinal direction of the circulating charged photon.
>
> The electron wave function for the 1s orbital would correspond to any linear path through the nucleus. Since the starting position is not specified, all paths through the center would be included in the wave function (that’s why it is spherically symmetric). I think it’s not a matter of variable motion due to uncertainty.
>
> How do you distinguish the charged photon from an electron? What does the wave function represent that would cause (rather than be a result of) the anisotropic motion? Above and below, you have come close to saying that the charged photon is the electron. Yet it does not seem to be a 1-to-1 correspondence. I agree with your statement above for the s-orbital electrons.
I don’t distinguish the charged photon from the electron, except perhaps during the formation of an electron and positron in pair production from a photon or by other means, and during annihilation of an electron-positron pair into photons. In pair production the photon “divides” into an electron and a positron (2 oppositely charged spin 1/2 photons), but the charge wasn’t originally present (except in potentiality) in the photon. A photon with more energy could have produced a proton-antiproton pair. A sufficiently energetic photon is always producing virtual electron-positron pairs which immediately recombine, according to QED. I think it is the charged photon composition of the electron that makes the electron show “matter-waves” i.e. de Broglie waves and other wave-particle dualities and properties shown by uncharged photons, such as double-slit phenomena and entanglement phenomena. Is a charged photon “matter”? Or is the electron no longer “matter” if it is viewed as a charged photon?
>
> 4. What is “waving” for the charged photon’s helical motion is the component of the charged photon’s generated plane wave along the longitudinal axis. This component of the helically circulating charged photon’s plane wave has the de Broglie wavelength. This longitudinal component of the photon’s generated plane wave is the wave function of the electron. The charged photon would make many (a large number of) helical rotations in one electron oscillation through the nucleus. In doing that it would be generating the de Broglie wavelength. There would be one complete de Broglie wavelength in one complete oscillation of the electron in the 1s state.
>
> My interpretation of what you say above is that the circulation frequency is much higher than the deBroglie frequency (would it be the electron Compton frequency?). The associated deBroglie wavelength is the motion of the charged photon (the electron) twice thru the nucleus. If so, then I think that I would agree with you on several points, even tho I would express it differently. Is this the 'slinky model' where the graded spacing of the coils varies twice in a deBroglie wavelength and the number of coils could be quite high?
The charged photon’s circulation frequency is f= (gamma mc^2)/h = gamma x Compton frequency. There is no separate de Broglie frequency, only the de Broglie wavelength. Or you can say that the de Broglie frequency is identical to the charged photon’s frequency f=(gamma mc^2)/h . When you multiply the charged photon's frequency f = (gamma mc^2)/h by the de Broglie wavelength h/(gamma mv) you get the electron’s superluminal (non-physical) phase velocity Vphase = (c^2)/v where v is the electron’s velocity. But remember that this phase velocity was created by the helically circulating charged photon’s plane wave fronts that intersected the transverse direction of the helically moving charged photon producing the de Broglie wavelength and the electron’s phase velocity.
>
> 5. The charged photon naturally curls up in correlation with its charge and mass. Can’t be more specific now.
>
> I look forward to more later.
>
> Andrew
>
> Have to run to school.
> Richard
>
>> On May 12, 2015, at 3:50 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <mules333 at gmail.com <mailto:mules333 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Richard,
>>
>> I'm glad to see you describe the s orbital electrons as going thru the nuclear region. From your description, I get the impression that:
>> the whole charged photon has a length that is shorter than the electron orbital. Is this true? If so, I agree.
>> the trajectory is helical. Does this mean that the center of mass (energy density) moves in a helical motion about (and offset from) the average orbit? Could you describe what is helical in your model? I may very well agree with this also.
>> The orbital path is linear (but with variable direction). This is seldom expressed or taught. I agree in principle. The path is certainly more linear (oriented long ellipse) than circular (which is the shape most students seem to end up with, unless they accept the QM concept of a cloud). However, the uncertainty principle indicates that the ang mom L is not exactly zero, so the path could actually be circular (statistically, delta L > hbar/2 ?). Do the individual shapes belong to individual bound electrons (until disturbed) or do all bound electrons spend some time in the various shaped orbits to give a uniform distribution for all similarly bound electrons, when averaged over a lifetime of disturbances?
>> The variable deBroglie wavelength is an aspect that few people address. I agree with it. However, have you been able to define what is 'waving' with this wavelength? Is that the rotation of the helix? Would that imply a single rotation for the helix per orbit? Or would the number of helical turns per orbit be sqrt(511,000/13.6) or some other high number? If the high number, what is waving once per orbit?
>> I agree with the energetics.
>> We are basically in agreement with our models. However, I have not yet understood if you consider the electron to be your charged photon (which concept I could agree with) or if you picture a charged photon to be able to exist and propagate at the speed of light as a linear structure and can curl into an electron if exposed to an adequate B-field or E-field gradient.
>> Item 1 is important to me, because I picture the electron to be 1/2 of a photon (perhaps a mm long) coiled about itself into a ball with radius of 1/2 the Compton radius (I used to think that it was the whole Compton radius). The other 1/2 becomes a positron.
>>
>> Item 2 is important to me because I picture the ang mom axis (the spin axis) of an electron as precessing about its velocity vector to give the 'helical' motion. This precession is the result of relativity giving a torque to the electron by increasing the effective mass (reducing the radius) of the portion of the electron that otherwise would exceed the velocity of light. The center of mass would follow an elliptical (perhaps non-helical) path that could be distorted by the effective B-field resulting from the electrons motion (B = dE/dt) about the nuclear charge (the spin-orbit interaction?).
>>
>> We seem to have nearly the same picture, but distinguished by a definition that could be critical to its understanding. The neutron is not stable outside of a nucleus. Is your charged photon stable outside of its electron configuration?
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> ____________________________
>> Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier at gmail.com <mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Andrew and Martin,
>> I think it would be a good challenge for anyone with a single-looped or double-looped photon model of an electron to model their electron in the 1s atomic state of hydrogen (where n=1, l=0, ml=0 and ms = + or - 1/2 hbar) where the electron has zero hbar atomic angular momentum even though it has internal electron spin 1/2 hbar. I model the electron here as oscillating back and forth linearly through the center of the atom as a charged photon with a helical trajectory of variable pitch and radius, with a total energy of E=mc^2 -13.6 eV and a maximum kinetic energy when the helically circulating charged photon passes the nucleus, generating a variable de Broglie wavelength along its trajectory (because its longitudinal momentum is changing as it oscillates in the atom) and making one complete de Broglie path per oscillation. The most probable position of the charged photon (the electron) to be detected is at 1 Bohr radius ao (as predicted by QM for the hydrogen atom) because the charged photon obeys the Schrodinger equation (in the non-relativistic approximation). If the 1s electron (charged photon) absorbs an uncharged photon of energy 13.6 eV, the hydrogen atom is ionized with the charged photon now having energy E=mc^2 .
>> Richard
>>
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