[General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

Sun Oct 25 22:09:07 PDT 2015

John
At issue is the speed of light...the question is whether a conditioned EM wave could travel faster than c. An unconditioned EM wave is considered to have U(1) symmetry. In terms of conditioned EM waves there are higher symmetries other than EM U(1) aka Maxwell Equations. So per Barrett, does topology matter in EM? 
Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism 

Would conditioning an EM U(1) X SU(2) wave permit higher than c velocities that a simple EM U(1) wave?

The direction(s) of photonic electron theory suggests that some sort of symmetry breaking is involved. Topological electromagnetism should be considered.
Since we are discussing symmetry as well...Phat photons suggest that photon amplitudes can be quantized (E vector). Given the symmetry of the Dirac equations, shouldn't the B-vector also be quantized. Of course, there are three possibilities. 
For n=1, 2, 3, 4, 5...
With the Dirac symmetric equations, if we look at the Poynting Vector, S = E X B and extend phat photon theory to the B component, we have three possibilities.
S = n^2E X n^2B = n^2(E X B) - Current phat photon

S = n^2E X B - Asymmetric E-photon 

S = E X n^2B - Asymmetric B-photon
Best
David

      From: John Williamson <John.Williamson at glasgow.ac.uk>
 To: "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> 
 Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

David,

I do not get what you mean about SU(2) having a velocity. Is that what you are saying or am I just being dumb?

In any event in my book there is - and should not be - any "spooky action at a distance. Whatever that is.

Regards, John W.

From: General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of davidmathes8 at yahoo.com [davidmathes8 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 2:47 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

Martin
So to pick up this old threadfrom a week ago...
Agreed that phase velocity can have "...any velocity, +/- infinity."
However, the assumption is a EM U(1) symmetry. SU(2) and higher may be a better fit for not only what we observe, but what may be possible although not yet observed.
Non locality or spooky action at a distance should also have a velocity. This phenomena may not be EM. However, when discussing the speed of light, any velocity should be compared to light-like velocity.
What is the velocity or velocity range of entanglement? There appears to be an upper limit but beyond that of c.Bounding the speed of ‘spooky action at a distance

David

From: "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark at philips.com>
To: "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

#yiv8902797518 #yiv8902797518 -- -- filtered {font-family:Helvetica;}#yiv8902797518 filtered {font-family:Helvetica;}#yiv8902797518 filtered {font-family:Calibri;}#yiv8902797518 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;}#yiv8902797518 p.yiv8902797518MsoNormal, #yiv8902797518 li.yiv8902797518MsoNormal, #yiv8902797518 div.yiv8902797518MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8902797518 h1 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:24.0pt;}#yiv8902797518 a:link, #yiv8902797518 span.yiv8902797518MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8902797518 a:visited, #yiv8902797518 span.yiv8902797518MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8902797518 p.yiv8902797518MsoListParagraph, #yiv8902797518 li.yiv8902797518MsoListParagraph, #yiv8902797518 div.yiv8902797518MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8902797518 span.yiv8902797518Heading1Char {color:#365F91;font-weight:bold;}#yiv8902797518 span.yiv8902797518EmailStyle18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8902797518 .yiv8902797518MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv8902797518 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv8902797518 ol {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv8902797518 ul {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv8902797518 #yiv8902797518 BODY {direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt;}#yiv8902797518 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}David and all,Just for the record, there are three kinds of velocity for electromagnetic waves:1)      The phase velocity, it governs refraction and as you may guess, the refractive index, n, is the material property related to it. May have any velocity, +/- infinity.v_phase = omega/k2)     The group velocity, this how fast a pulse of light moves and it is always slower than c.v_group = domega/dk3)      The energy transport velocity, relevant for resonant structures, always slower than cv_energy = see Amsterdam effect and the book by Brillouin on propagationThen (as indicated in the first point), on top of this there is the possibility of negative epsilon and mu leading to negative refractive index. This may happen at a resonance (small bandwidth, limited response time), and is associated with so-called perfect lenses and optical cloaks. Can be made as a meta material. It amplifies the near-field (longitudinal component).I hope this helps some.Cheers, Martin Dr. Martin B. van der MarkPrincipal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare Philips Research Europe - EindhovenHigh Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)Prof. Holstlaan 45656 AE  Eindhoven, The NetherlandsTel: +31 40 2747548 

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]On Behalf Of davidmathes8 at yahoo.com
Sent: dinsdag 20 oktober 2015 1:26
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Richard Gauthier; Chip Akins
Subject: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index? 
Rich, Chip, John W, Martin et al

I've wondered if the photon or quanta within the confines of an electron could really travel at FTL velocities. 

Indeed, one of the parametric models Richard has proposed does fit known experiments to date. 
 So here is an interesting tool for experimentalists: an on-chip zero-index metamaterial.
 http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html
"This novel on-chip metamaterial platform opens the door to exploring the physics of zero index and its applications in integrated optics." Best David
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