[General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

Mon Oct 26 00:00:16 PDT 2015

David,

I think this is a misunderstanding of what the speed of light is and what it means.

There are already, necessarily, velocities faster than light as Martin has said.

The Maxwell equations are not - in themselves the same thing as a U(1) symmetry at all. The U(1) symmetry is, in fact, far too simple for the Maxwell equations. This is despite the stream of crap spouting from the standard source.  (U(1) is just isomorphic to the unit complex circle given by all objects e^(j theta)). Complex, but not nearly complex enough for Maxwell which needs at least (minimally) a Cl(1,3) group. This group (Cl(1,3)) CONTAINS U(1), SU(2) and SU(3). All of this has absolutely and completely nothing at all to do with the speed of light.

Hope this clears that up.

Regards, John W.

Comments in blue
________________________________
From: General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of davidmathes8 at yahoo.com [davidmathes8 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:09 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

John

At issue is the speed of light...the question is whether a conditioned EM wave could travel faster than c. An unconditioned EM wave is considered to have U(1) symmetry. In terms of conditioned EM waves there are higher symmetries other than EM U(1) aka Maxwell Equations. So per Barrett, does topology matter in EM?

Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism<http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf>

Would conditioning an EM U(1) X SU(2) wave permit higher than c velocities that a simple EM U(1) wave?

No

The direction(s) of photonic electron theory suggests that some sort of symmetry breaking is involved. Topological electromagnetism should be considered.

This is what I am doing

Since we are discussing symmetry as well...Phat photons suggest that photon amplitudes can be quantized (E vector). Given the symmetry of the Dirac equations, shouldn't the B-vector also be quantized.

Photon quantisation implies B quantisation. Phat photons are good.

Of course, there are three possibilities.

For n=1, 2, 3, 4, 5...

With the Dirac symmetric equations, if we look at the Poynting Vector, S = E X B and extend phat photon theory to the B component, we have three possibilities.

S = n^2E X n^2B = n^2(E X B) - Current phat photon

S = n^2E X B - Asymmetric E-photon

S = E X n^2B - Asymmetric B-photon

Do not see this ... they do not balance so how would they work?

Best

David

________________________________
From: John Williamson <John.Williamson at glasgow.ac.uk>
To: "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

David,

I do not get what you mean about SU(2) having a velocity. Is that what you are saying or am I just being dumb?

In any event in my book there is - and should not be - any "spooky action at a distance. Whatever that is.

Regards, John W.

________________________________
From: General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of davidmathes8 at yahoo.com [davidmathes8 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 2:47 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

Martin

So to pick up this old threadfrom a week ago...

Agreed that phase velocity can have "...any velocity, +/- infinity."

However, the assumption is a EM U(1) symmetry. SU(2) and higher may be a better fit for not only what we observe, but what may be possible although not yet observed.

Non locality or spooky action at a distance should also have a velocity. This phenomena may not be EM. However, when discussing the speed of light, any velocity should be compared to light-like velocity.

What is the velocity or velocity range of entanglement? There appears to be an upper limit but beyond that of c.
Bounding the speed of ‘spooky action at a distance<http://arxiv.org/pdf/1303.0614v1.pdf>

David

________________________________
From: "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark at philips.com>
To: "davidmathes8 at yahoo.com" <davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

David and all,
Just for the record, there are three kinds of velocity for electromagnetic waves:
1)      The phase velocity, it governs refraction and as you may guess, the refractive index, n, is the material property related to it. May have any velocity, +/- infinity.
v_phase = omega/k
2)      The group velocity, this how fast a pulse of light moves and it is always slower than c.
v_group = domega/dk
3)      The energy transport velocity, relevant for resonant structures, always slower than c
v_energy = see Amsterdam effect and the book by Brillouin on propagation
Then (as indicated in the first point), on top of this there is the possibility of negative epsilon and mu leading to negative refractive index. This may happen at a resonance (small bandwidth, limited response time), and is associated with so-called perfect lenses and optical cloaks. Can be made as a meta material. It amplifies the near-field (longitudinal component).
I hope this helps some.
Cheers, Martin

Dr. Martin B. van der Mark
Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare

Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven
High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)
Prof. Holstlaan 4
5656 AE  Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 40 2747548

From: General [mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of davidmathes8 at yahoo.com
Sent: dinsdag 20 oktober 2015 1:26
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Richard Gauthier; Chip Akins
Subject: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?

Rich, Chip, John W, Martin et al
I've wondered if the photon or quanta within the confines of an electron could really travel at FTL velocities.
Indeed, one of the parametric models Richard has proposed does fit known experiments to date.

So here is an interesting tool for experimentalists: an on-chip zero-index metamaterial.
 http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html
"This novel on-chip metamaterial platform opens the door to exploring the physics of zero index and its applications in integrated optics."

Best

David

________________________________
The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

_______________________________________________
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at davidmathes8 at yahoo.com<mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>
<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">
Click here to unsubscribe

</a>

_______________________________________________
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at davidmathes8 at yahoo.com<mailto:davidmathes8 at yahoo.com>
<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">
Click here to unsubscribe
</a>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/pipermail/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/attachments/20151026/4c25c94a/attachment.htm>